Men with autism more 'chivalrous'

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????



It's more than just an assertion.



I'm not arguing that adherence to social norms is kind of pathological. I don't have a problem with adherence to social norms when those social norms make sense.

What I'm arguing, is that the norms of 21st century Western civilization are the norms of a sick, corrupt, decadent society... or a society at the verge of collapse.

What I'm arguing, is that behavior that's normal in any healthy society is behavior considered abnormal today.

I been told by woman they feel safe around me because I have a "non threatening" appearance. And it's why a lot of people sometimes misgender me because I am quiet and non threatening.

I think that's why I (unlike typical men) tend to get along with Lesbians. In fact, I tend to get along better with Lesbians than with straight women. It's annoying, really

I think, there is a message behind it. Possibly they notice you are different, friendly and sexually unattractive. If you would make sexual advances, flirt or seduce, they may find it scary. Since you do not do that, they consider you safe or feel safe around you. It is possible that - althought that is not true - they think, you are a wuss. You are not sexually aggressive, and certainly not a sexual harasser.

Okay... this thread kind of upset me...

first of all, OP... no... most of the aspies and autistic spectrum adults I have met have been some of, if not the absolutely rudest people I have ever met... and I have met many in my travels and research. For the record, chivalry was a code of behavior on the battle field. It has nothing to do with treatment of women or politeness...

To a majority of the responders I have read here... I've got news for you... politeness did not cost you a girl... because women are not vending machines that you plunk kindness and politeness coins into until sex pops out. And I've got news for you kiddies... if you use the term friendzoned, if you say she didn't want you because you were too nice... you weren't nice at all... you aren't a nice guy... you are a guy using niceness as a weapon in sexual warfare...

Many people on the Autism spectrum are nice people who just suck at putting into words what's in their mind, in a way both the message and the tone get across the way they want to.

Many people on the Autism spectrum really try to be nice but end up sounding like a jerk anyway, because something went wrong in the process between wanting to say something and actually saying it.



During the High Middle Ages, Chivalry was a set of codes and traditions among the European nobility that can be compared with that of the Japanese Samurai. In involved codes or honor and traditions that encompassed their entire lives, from courting a women to meeting their death on the battlefield.



In one instance, a girl I had a crush on literally told me she didn't want to date me anymore because I was too much of a nice guy.

It took me a long time to realize that it meant I should have made a move that New Year's Eve she'd given me a lap dance, we crawled over the fence of an old graveyard and we watched the fireworks while sitting on a gravestone - Yeah, I was kind of a goth back then.



In my experience, when a girl implies you're "too much of a nice guy", it means that you're just too insecure to make a move when you had the chance and she lost interest afterwards.

Women are very much attracted to self-confidence in men. If you show too much of your insecurity, it's but a matter of time before you get "friendzoned" (if you're not a couple yet) or "dumped" (if you're already a couple).



That's what genuine a**holes do... the ones who are expert manipulators and can actually get almost any women they want.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's what most of the men on this forum are like or what they're trying to emulate.

No..

Now, an ASD man might you open doors for a woman, pull out her seat so she can sit down, but my husband doesn't any of that.

I can't tell how times I struggled with a car seat, diaper bag and purse, and he has walked to the house to do whatever. Or struggle carrying anything. Or bring up laundry from the basement and balancing other things.

He doesn't see when people need help. He is more than willing to help if you point blank ask him. For him to get up and do something for anyone, without that person asking isn't going to happen. That was a huge complaint from his female co workers, who complained he acted like a 11 year old kid.

I don't see chivarly in the ASD group he goes to either.

If you can't read a situation, body language and figure out what to do on the fly, getting up to help out is a tall order.


I guess, if you are big into SCA, where there a boat loads of rules for "proper" behavior, and enough people remind and hammer on you about it, it could become second nature.

The bulk of my husband's ASD problems are all social skills related and theater of the mind stuff.

He's wonderful in many aspects, but helpful without being asked isn't one of them.

I have met some who were and some who were not. I honestly think it is a blend of the social rules learned (you should do this, you shouldn't do that) and experiences.

Those I have met who are extremely polite and go out of their way to be respectful of others tend to have been taught from an early age, "this is how you treat people." As they tested those rules over time, they found people respond positively, so they continued to treat people in this manner. The black and white, "this is how the world should work," reasoning tends to reinforce their drive to treat people in this manner, even when met with some negativity.

Those I have met, on the other hand, who are less caring or kind have often had very negative or traumatic experiences that caused them to over-ride the logical social rules they have been taught in favor of self-preservation.

As an adult, I have always been praised for the politeness I have shown towards both men and women. I suspect that many believe there's an ulterior motive involved, but I would strongly refute such a claim. I merely like to be polite and courteous when I can be, even to those who are indifferent towards me.

I don't think men with autism are more 'chivalrous' in our thoughts but we may be so in our actions, simply because manners are a social rule set we can use to navigate often troubling and confusing waters.

Person A does this action, I as person B am supposed to take this action. If you do it enough it gets ingrained and you don't have to think about it at all, it's just automatic if we get triggered, which can take some of the social burden off, at least in my own experience. Acting in a 'proper' or 'professional' manner is also a way to keep distance from people, like putting on a suit of armor.

Yeah, I've used that technique before. Usually with flirty women I pull out the proper and professional card-- it shuts things down really quick in my experience.

Maybe autistic men who weren't taught they're weak and helpless by bullies are more chivalrous. I mean especially those who defeated their bullies, proving they were stronger and the bullies were badly mistaken.

I, on the other hand, have plenty of reasons to regard any kind of closeness to a woman as belonging to the realm of fantasy, and one of them is that I'd never be able to defend her from other men. I'd like to prove I at least have the courage to stand there and let the bully rough me up (and then, once he knocks me out or kills me, do whatever he was going to do to her anyway, of course), rather than flee and leave her at his mercy from the beginning, but I don't think I'll get to experience that scenario, because the woman will know better than to be with me in the first place.

Therefore, I can't consider myself chivalrous no matter how many doors I hold open or how many bags I carry. Besides, I do it regardless of the other person's gender, and, over the last years, I've found more and more often women doing it to me, too, especially young ones, and they usually look genuinely nice while doing it, so I'd be just a stupid jerk if I stopped to argue I should be the one holding the door because I'm the man. It'd sound anything but manly.

Last edited by Spiderpig on 16 Apr 2016, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I totally relate with that

I sometimes do see when people need help... but not very often. It depends a lot on what "modus" I'm in, and I'm rarely in the kind of modus where I notice that kind of things before it is too late to do anything about it.



For your sake AND his, I hope you've gotten used to asking for help by now

I had an interesting conversation about chivalry not too long ago. It was at an invite-only escort convention. I was talking to two other men and an escort I saw a few months ago; we were all standing in a square formation. One man said: "You know, we [motions with arms around room, to reference escorts and their clients] are the last holdouts of chivalry; that's why it's not dead." The escort cut in: "I've dated occasionally outside of this [her job]; getting a man to even open the car door for me was like pulling teeth. Men I meet through here actually treat me like a lady." Then she turned to me and said: "Which includes you, and I like the enthusiasm you showed last time" (an adults-only inside joke). The man from earlier continued, talking about about his "free" date being rude to him.

All in all, it's sad. If someone with a controversial job, like an escort, actually gets treated better by her clients than by "free" dates, then it really says a lot about what we've become as a society. I don't know what caused the dating world to turn to crap, but it's not getting better anytime soon. Then again, the first real date I went on was in 2002 or 2003, and it wasn't good by any means: while I was very chivalrous, it was a boring, awkward experience.

I blame Feminism!

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Some trends :

Last edited by aspiesavant on 16 Apr 2016, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm a bit short, so some men "top" my act of kindness by reaching over my head to hold the door open while inviting me to go before them. It was a little confusing the first time it happened, but now I just go with it. It's kind of nice to know they chose to put me first, but it's not necessary. It also gets me out of the obligatory eye contact and saying, "Your welcome." multiple times, for which I am beyond grateful.