Is Asperger's often confused with a personality disorder?

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anbuend
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01 Apr 2010, 9:03 am

Yeah there is absolutely no connection between autism and antisocial pd (which is the current psychiatric term for sociopathy). The only way they can be confused is if you hear the two different usages of lacking empathy and assume they are the same. They have been studies and when autistic people understand a social situation where someone does something wrong we care about right and wrong whereas sociopaths do not.

Of course it is possible for someone to be both but there is no connection between the two. Not all autistic people tell the truth all the time and follow rules even when we are not sociopaths. Those are stereotypes but they are not true of all of us and it is perfectly possible for an autistic person to lack a conscience and therefore do all those awful things that get you labeled antisocial PD. Just as it's possible for autistic people to have all the traits that get you labeled borderline even if they look different from a nonautistic person with the same diagnosis.


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sinsboldly
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01 Apr 2010, 9:10 am

Sora wrote:
If someone is female and if a psychologist just sums up the obvious symptoms (and not the reasons for them!) the diagnosis can be borderline personality disorder. ~snip~

A psychologist must be really uninterested in the patient and must have no idea of autism spectrum disorders to consider borderline when it is really autism.
Mine was like that by the way, that's why I feel like mentioning this.


BPD is also a 'code' to other psychologists for "this person is smarter than you and your usual dreck won't cut it with them, beware!" :roll:



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01 Apr 2010, 9:59 am

Whether it's a correct diagnosis or a mis-diagnosis, I think it's unfortunate if they diagnosis someone with BPD and then stop looking and miss an autistic disorder (or ADHD, or bi-polar). I think neurological differences do contribute to BPD for some with BPD. Being different and not knowing how to deal with that and not having role models like oneself is plenty traumatic, and BPD appears to be related to chronic trauma (including abuse).


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JHenry2848
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01 Apr 2010, 1:12 pm

TPE2 wrote:
JHenry2848 wrote:
Who i'd like to hear from is someone who is actually diagnosed as Antisocialpersonality disorder. And then have them explain to me what makes it different from Asperger's.

In my mind, Aspergers is a neurological cause for antisocial PD. Because I dont really see a large difference between to the two.


I don't see any similarity - people with ASD usually don't lie, don't cheat, don't commit crimes, etc. If anything, the reputation of people with ASD is exactly the opposite: extreme honesty and rule-following.
I have read on this forum that some of it's users have problems with lieing. I have it too only because im always trying to represent myself as somebody im not. I need to learn to stop this.

But if commiting crimes is trully nescisary for a Antisocial PD, diagnosis than yeh I guess I was wrong. But if crime wasnt nescisary than the tewo would be very similar.



anxiety25
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01 Apr 2010, 2:50 pm

Mysty wrote:
Whether it's a correct diagnosis or a mis-diagnosis, I think it's unfortunate if they diagnosis someone with BPD and then stop looking and miss an autistic disorder (or ADHD, or bi-polar). I think neurological differences do contribute to BPD for some with BPD. Being different and not knowing how to deal with that and not having role models like oneself is plenty traumatic, and BPD appears to be related to chronic trauma (including abuse).


The worst part about being diagnosed with that... is that I had a diagnosis, so I thought it must fit somehow... I got into support groups, and online forums, etc., and every time I was ganged up on and yelled at constantly for miscommunication problems, or for stating things matter of factly. A lot of them were quite angry, and quite confused about things... and they didn't want to hear it if anyone tried to explain something... even if they were the ones asking.

I stuck around for a very long time on the forums, and was ganged up on many many times... but I just had no clue what else to be looking at.

It was actually someone on here that messaged me one day and said I should check out this site, because she just wasn't seeing BPD in my responses and such, and somebody had mentioned WrongPlanet to her.... so I came here, and by the end of the first day, it felt like there should have been a big "welcome home" sign on the top of the site, lol. Getting the diagnosis straightened out was such an enormous relief.

I don't mind what my label is called, I don't care what people view it as... I just want to make sure it fits, ya know?


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TPE2
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01 Apr 2010, 5:04 pm

JHenry2848 wrote:
TPE2 wrote:
JHenry2848 wrote:
Who i'd like to hear from is someone who is actually diagnosed as Antisocialpersonality disorder. And then have them explain to me what makes it different from Asperger's.

In my mind, Aspergers is a neurological cause for antisocial PD. Because I dont really see a large difference between to the two.


I don't see any similarity - people with ASD usually don't lie, don't cheat, don't commit crimes, etc. If anything, the reputation of people with ASD is exactly the opposite: extreme honesty and rule-following.
I have read on this forum that some of it's users have problems with lieing. I have it too only because im always trying to represent myself as somebody im not. I need to learn to stop this.

But if commiting crimes is trully nescisary for a Antisocial PD, diagnosis than yeh I guess I was wrong. But if crime wasnt nescisary than the tewo would be very similar.


Well, I think that crime is not necessary; but the essence of Antisocial PD is "the guy who is capable of (almost) everything to achieve is ends, even if this cause several harm to others". I don't see what is the connection of this with AS (however, I am "not sure if I have it or not"; perhaps the diagnosed members have a different opinion).

But what are the similarities that you see between AS and ASPD?

IMO, if there are PDs that can be easily confused with AS, they are Schizoid PD (some people even think that AS and SPD are little more than two names for the same same thing), Avoidant PD (at least, for introvert Aspies - both SPD and AvPD) and Obsessive-Compulsive PD, much more than ASPD.



anbuend
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01 Apr 2010, 5:33 pm

I think the only confusion would be (and i've seen both):

1. A sociopath misdiagnosed as autistic finds their traits mentioned in ASPD. M

2. An autistic person totally misunderstands the meaning of the words used for ASPD.

Like antisocial. It doesn't mean not liking to socialize or not liking people. It means going against the bare minimum rules that allow a society to function. Not social skills. Things like "killing is wrong" and "don't torture people or animals for fun" and all that sort of stuff.

And empathy. Autistic people don't necessarily lack empathy in either sense but when it's said of us it means lacking the ability to understand nonautistic people. When sociopaths lack empathy it means not giving a crap about hurting or even killing people, there's no remorse because sociopaths lack a conscience telling them it's wrong to hurt or kill people.

When they talk about sociopaths having disregard of social rules and norms it's the ones like killing people is wrong. And when they disregard them it's not because they don't understand but because they're not capable of caring.

When they stick to themselves it's not because of social skills or even because of being an ordinary loner. It's for a lot of reasons most of which stem from being really twisted people who simply find it easier to do what they do without someone around. But they are not above dating or marrying for sex or for camouflage and most of them are fully capable of charming a lover. In fact I have known sociopaths who seem to specialize in finding ways of appearing attractive to partners to get lots and lots of sex (they don't know anything about love).

I have known sociopaths. Unless they are also autistic they bear zero resemblance to autistic people. I've heard of autistics being misdiagnosed that way but it's very rare and often the result of other things (like a woman I know whose OCD makes her punish herself by breaking windows and they don't get why she really does it, and another autistic woman who went through an extreme rebellious phase and got in trouble with the law).

But real sociopaths autistic or not are the last people you want to know. A lot of them take great pleasure in hurting people. Even if they're not serial killers like the stereotype they will make your life a living hell. They can be very charming and manipulative and can convince other people to do their dirty work for them. Many of them have a seeming sixth sense for spotting anything good in the world, like love, friendships, anything good or pleasant, and deriving sick pleasure from figuring out how to destroy it. Nonsociopathic autistics are nothing at all like that. These are not people you ever want to meet.


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01 Apr 2010, 6:14 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Sora wrote:
If someone is female and if a psychologist just sums up the obvious symptoms (and not the reasons for them!) the diagnosis can be borderline personality disorder. ~snip~

A psychologist must be really uninterested in the patient and must have no idea of autism spectrum disorders to consider borderline when it is really autism.
Mine was like that by the way, that's why I feel like mentioning this.


BPD is also a 'code' to other psychologists for "this person is smarter than you and your usual dreck won't cut it with them, beware!" :roll:

Oh for the love of euphemisms!

It's true, although I would extend the euphemism to also include any female patient deemed difficult by the particular psychiatrist/psychologist for whatever reason, including (as pointed out by sinsboldly) not being easily manipulated by stupid lies and irrational conjecture.



alana
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02 Apr 2010, 1:58 am

anbuend wrote:
Yeah there is absolutely no connection between autism and antisocial pd (which is the current psychiatric term for sociopathy). The only way they can be confused is if you hear the two different usages of lacking empathy and assume they are the same. They have been studies and when autistic people understand a social situation where someone does something wrong we care about right and wrong whereas sociopaths do not.

Of course it is possible for someone to be both but there is no connection between the two. Not all autistic people tell the truth all the time and follow rules even when we are not sociopaths. Those are stereotypes but they are not true of all of us and it is perfectly possible for an autistic person to lack a conscience and therefore do all those awful things that get you labeled antisocial PD. Just as it's possible for autistic people to have all the traits that get you labeled borderline even if they look different from a nonautistic person with the same diagnosis.


occasionally I see where people get this confused too, that antisocial pd means antisocial whereas antisocials are some of the most charismatic charming people you can meet sometimes, as long as you aren't around them too long. it has nothing to do with being "social" which we are not, it has to do with no ability or desire to abide by rules of Society. It's almost the direct opposite of what it sounds like. I also think shrinks commonly mistake a lack of empathy for a lack of expression of empathy.

The thing about borderline/AS for me is that i do not believe an AS person can live the life that a borderline lives without being completely overstimulated and melting down like every five minutes. Borderlines have an amazing capacity to cause avalanches right and left while remaining calm and unaffected. They do it intentionally, with forethought, and move on like nothing every happened. To me it's an amazing process to watch, someone causing such turmoil and emotional pain without any inner effect. I think AS people tend to be so jacked up CNS-wise a life like that wouldn't last long.



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02 Apr 2010, 9:57 am

I suppose that many people, when they hear "AntiSocial Personality Disorder", they think in something like Schizoid PD (and when they hear "Schizoid Personality Disorder", they think in Dissociative Identity Disorder).



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02 Apr 2010, 12:02 pm

alana wrote:
The thing about borderline/AS for me is that i do not believe an AS person can live the life that a borderline lives without being completely overstimulated and melting down like every five minutes. Borderlines have an amazing capacity to cause avalanches right and left while remaining calm and unaffected. They do it intentionally, with forethought, and move on like nothing every happened. To me it's an amazing process to watch, someone causing such turmoil and emotional pain without any inner effect. I think AS people tend to be so jacked up CNS-wise a life like that wouldn't last long.


The thing is, that's a generalization about BPD, and it's not always true. Not everyone with BPD is like that.


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02 Apr 2010, 12:58 pm

Wouldn't the presence of these characteristics in early childhood preclude a personality disorder diagnosis?
I'm thinking mainly of Schizoid and Avoidant.



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02 Apr 2010, 2:25 pm

It definitely happens. I was originally diagnosed as bi-polar when I had just turned 16.



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29 Jul 2012, 10:18 am

This is a really interesting question and I have been wondering the same thing. I have been having assessment and seeing psephologists since i was 7 years old. The first thing i was defiantly diagnosed with was Dyslexia (and this is the only one I have had confirmed as an adult). During my first ever abasement it was suggested I shared behavioral traits that are assisted with Asperger's syndrome, but since then Aspergers was never mentioned and every psephologist said something different.
I was also diagnosed with childhood:
Avoidant disorder
Generalized social anxiety disorder
Attachment disorder
Compulsive behaviors
Behavioral inhbitation (what ever that means

And since then I suspect I possibly also have traits of an eating disorder and torrent syndrome.

What I've been thinking is, I shortly can't possibly have all those things? can I? is it possibly that it's all just Asperger's and that Aspergers shares traits that are also associate's with all those other disorders.



ItsJustAmber
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31 Jul 2012, 5:39 pm

Would this fit in with being misdiagnosed? This is a very interesting thread and I was just curious if OCPD could actually be Aspergers or if you could have both. Thanks.



ooo
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01 Aug 2012, 1:16 am

MissPickwickian wrote:
Asperger's syndrome may be confused with:
:arrow: Schizoid personality disorder, a condition in which a person feels no conscious desire to be with others. Both Schizoids and Aspergians are logical thinkers who sometimes feel superior to the rest of the population and tend to isolate themselves. However, Schizoids do not usually experience strong, intense special interests and impairments in nonverbal communication. There is no proven correlation between Schizoid personality disorder and autism.
:arrow: Avoidant personality disorder, a disorder characterized by pervasive and extreme social phobia. Schizoids isolate themselves due to a superiority complex, while avoidants do so because they feel utterly inferior to everyone else. Unlike Aspergians, avoidants shut themselves off because they are afraid of other people, not because they cannot relate to them.
It takes a trained eye to tell the difference between these three disorders, because they look quite similar on the outside.
Also presenting misdiagnosis potential are bipolar disorder (for some reason, its a common problem), Obsessive-compulsive disorder (a disease of being anal and hating it), Obsessive-Compulsive personality disorder (a disease of being anal and loving it), ADHD, and "giftedness" (this was my diagnosis for far too long).


Interesting.