WP tagline like saying Homosexuality is Not a Disease

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That is not how society saw homosexuality 100 years ago, when it was "an abominable deviance", described by science as a dysfunction, which frightened many heterosexual men into unwanted marriages, into more masculine behaviours to prove their heterosexuality and when that was "revealed" as normal behaviour for half the homosexual population, into constant insecurity about male identity, constant overworked signals of being hetero, overdone exaggerated gestures and remarks and behaviours to make clear their heterosexuality, so that many straight men could have been said to be putting on a show to pass as hetero, and that almost all male behaviour became pastiche/overacting. ( and that's without even looking at what it was like for actual homosexuals)

"Normal" and homosexual don't necessarily belong together, as much as people want to champion how wonderful it is to be gay. There's no pride in a man dressing like Dorothy from Oz or prancing about in leather outfits. That's just nuts.

Now, for actual homosexuality (as opposed to the flamboyantly "gay" lifestyle) it's a deviance from what nature intended, but all of us here have a similar brain dysfunction - AS! The brain is supposed to be attracted to the opposite sex because that's how the species procreates. Humans (as well as other species) are not always born perfectly, and a wire gets crossed somewhere resulting in a disorder of some type - whether autism, aspergers, homosexuality, chronic depression, you name it. It's not much different than being born with a missing finger or extra toe... except the brain is so bogglingly complex, we barely understand it at all. With the (I think it was) 500billion networks and pathways, it's pretty easy for something to go wrong.

That's if you're born gay. And that IS okay - not like you had much choice in the matter, eh? You deserve the right to live without ridicule and fear.

That said, I've known people heterosexual for many years, then after a string of abuses by the opposite sex, chose to be gay because the brain was programmed by experience to hate the opposite sex! I've also known people who were bisexual simply because they didn't care who or what got their rocks off - their own sexual pleasure was the most important thing in their lives. That one I just can't live with...

I think the fact that the term Aspergers has been stuck onto the autistic spectrum, extending it, is significant. Autism was too "obvious", most of the time, too "unambiguous", like the known kind of gay was in the mid-1880s, ( effeminate),....before medical treatises from Sexologists in the 1880/90s clearly stated the existence of a masculine kind of homosexual.
Suddenly everyone was "suspect".
As with Aspergers. It's "almost" invisible, almost "passes", hence all the questionings; am i, aren't i? It's much more nerve wracking and powerful a tool of social control/oppression, than something very clearly cut and dried.

Last edited by ouinon on 01 Jan 2008, 9:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

How do you know "what nature intended" ?!
Yes, to reproduce it is most useful if aim at opposite sex, but there is no evidence, anywhere, that homosexuality is "a disorder", anymore than the genetically determined component(s) (of the generally accepted cluster of symptoms listed in the dx for Aspergers) is a disorder.
It is a difference. It is a variation. But what proof have you that it is "not meant" to be so?

Last edited by ouinon on 30 Dec 2007, 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am gobsmacked at your post BlueMax. Absolutely gobsmacked.

I am too angered to write anything more coherent at the moment. But just know that I, for one, find some of your opinions offensive.

a gobsmacked ditto to that. It took me literally a while to realise it, at which point posted questions, but yes, almost unbelievable.

ouinon-think this would be interesting reading for you:
http://www.autistics.org/library/allies.html
It discusses parallels between disenfranchised populations seeking recognition, acceptance, support, and inclusion.

Not to get too off-topic, but schizophrenia is not all one thing so no single thing can be said about all the many different things (many neurological in origin, some possibly not) that come under that label.

And I know a lot of bipolar people (including some in my family) who would argue with the idea that bipolar is entirely negative, they view it as neutral with extreme positives and negatives.

So? those people were wrong. Homosexuality is not itself harmful to the individual or others. Schizophrenia, on the other hand, quite obviously often leads to the individual harming himself/herself or others, we don't need people walking on the street that hear voices in their heads telling them to kill someone.

Funny you walk round everyday past people who say they hear voice's of god, to me in general that is harmful using someones faith against them & easy manipulating them...

Sorry forgot hearing voices of god does not make you nutz...

Just had to stick that in

http://www.hdfoster.com/Foster_Schizophrenia.pdf heres a nice book for you

I took this part out just incase no one can bother to read it

Recovering schizophrenics are still one of the few groups society feels free to abuse, ostracize,
and discriminate against. While it is socially acceptable to admit to cancer, heart disease, multiple sclerosis, or Parkinson’s disease,
admitting to schizophrenia invites fear and derision. To recover, schizophrenics need employment, respect, and compassion.
Too often they receive rejection, abuse, and insult.

thank you, sometimes in long discussions I get off topic. It's good someone is paying attention!

Merle

Lots of people hear voices without being diagnosable as schizophrenic, and lots of people who are diagnosed or diagnosable as schizophrenic don't hear voices.

Moreover, lots of people hear voices telling them to kill someone, without believing the voices or acting on them. There is a famous autistic person who hears voices telling him to kill people, and who has never acted on them. He is no more dangerous than you or I are (and no less autistic), and while he reports regretting that he admitted this, I find it very bold given that autistic people are so often ripped to shreds in this community for saying something that doesn't meet some exact stereotype.

Most people diagnosed or diagnosable as schizophrenic would never hurt a fly. You are repeating stereotypes about them that are no better than the stereotypes people repeat about autistic people. Often those stereotypes are deliberately fed by people who want to make it easier to lock up their family members. (The most visible person promoting those stereotypes has a sister diagnosed with schizophrenia. Many other people with the diagnosis are furious at this guy, with good reason, he's been a real ass to them.)

And they are not all the same, they don't even all have the same condition. Even doctors are now saying "the schizophrenias" because what is now known as schizophrenia is the result of some guy a hundred years ago deciding that people with a whole lot of totally unrelated conditions all had them for the exact same reason. If it weren't for autism being put in the DSM and another note being put in the DSM saying "don't diagnose autistic people as schizophrenic", most autistic people would fit the criteria for it. So would people with a number of movement disorders that have become separated from it over the years (that all have in common catatonia as a symptom, catatonia is actually a neurological condition and it's mostly unrelated to psychosis). That's how broad it is.

Indeed. I've received no end of true nastiness about the fact that I was once diagnosed as schizophrenic. And that was a misdiagnosis that's since been retracted. It's even worse when it's at the time of your diagnosis.

just came across some stuff while reading that schizophrenia book...

NAS figures are 1 in 100 have autism...

The odds against any one person, picked at random from the
general population, being schizophrenic are roughly 1 in 100,
a long shot.

Countries where the national diet traditionally contains large
quantities of cow’s milk and wheat have poor recovery rates for
schizophrenia.16 This is not unexpected as some schizophrenics
greatly improve on gluten free diets.

To illustrate, it was discovered that schizophrenia was relatively
rare amongst the Hutterites,13 a religious group that
originated in 1530. Naturally, those supporting psychosocial
explanations of schizophrenia accounted for this anomaly by
pointing to the low stress, and the relatively slow pace of life
experienced in Hutterite communities. Such communal villages
are invariably rural, being devoted to agriculture, crafts
and value-added small scale manufacturing. Everybody is
employed and is part of a close society. They are largely free,
therefore, of many of the urban stressors that may perhaps
trigger schizophrenia.

Many recovered schizophrenics believe that their improved
health is due largely to high doses of vitamin and mineral supplements.
The most commonly taken nutrients are niacin,
niacinamide, and vitamin C, used by 28, 8, and 14 percent of
former patients respectively. Most of these nutrients are taken
at levels way beyond Recommended Daily Allowances.

wonder how much more stuff is taken from schizophrenics & applied to As treatment techniques

Doh, my bad!