Christianity and AS

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Kalister- most of that stuff happened in the old testament, which was more or less overturned with the coming of Christ.

Thats up for interpretation.

http://www.new-life.net/faq024.htm

"When all these things are taken into account I believe that the Jesus of the New Testament is really no different, than the God of the Old Testament. Indeed, He is one and the same."

Many biblical scholars would disagree with you, and say Christ did not in fact do that. Also, even if he did overturn those things (which he didn't), that does not make it true. If he did in fact do that, why not pick and choose what Old Testament verses you wish to follow? Why not just throw out Moses, I don't like that one. Really, if you were never meant to follow the Old Testament, why muddy the waters and include it anyway? Its because you are meant to follow it also, as it is still the word of God. It also leads to the question: How can an all knowing God be wrong?

Arguing over religious scripture is like arguing over the emperor's wardrobe, when he is in fact naked. It just isn't true!

The Bible was written by men, but the words were given to them by God.

Jesus worked on the Sabbath in the New Testament, updating that law. The Old Testament applied to a specific time in history where men did not have the same level of social development. It applied to the time and only that time, which is why Jesus updated the rules later.

I don't know what verse you mean about the daughter getting raped. Did you read the entire chapter and consider the context? Keep in mind, just because the Bible tells a story about what did happen, does not mean it says it SHOULD happen. It also acts as a historical text. However, I'm going to need a book, chapter, and verse or two on this one to read the context and see what it is actually saying.



First off, just saying, "The Bible contradicts itself in multiple places," does not make an argument, nor saying that large parts of it are untrue. Those are talking points and empty, an argument only accepted by fools who will repeat what they are told to feed their irrational hate. You'll need specifics to back up such a claim here. As far as the flood goes, there is much debate on this one yet. First, when the Bible talks about "the world", it does not necessarily mean "the planet", it meant the known world at the time. The words were read by people in a time where they had no idea the world was a ball of rock in space. They also had no idea there was anything across the ocean. What else do you say? That knowledge came FAR, FAR later.



The abolition of slavery is an extremely new concept. Given the time, would it make sense NOT to have advice for slaves? Society couldn't function back then without them. You're living in a world where you think slavery is abolished. Most likely, tomorrow, you're going to have to go somewhere you don't want to go to do something you have no choice to do for someone else just to eat. Or, at least someone will have to do that, like your parents, to keep you fed. Does changing the word "slavery" to "employment" change the nature of what it is? Hey, look, society still can't function without employees. Things changed? Not so much, I think.



See previous.



If you take into account the verse before it, it means to take revenge on those who tore down Jerusalem. Taken out of context, you make Christians sound like insane baby killers. There is a group today that much closer matches THAT description, but that is off-topic.



In other words, cursed is he who does not fight for the Lord when called upon. Read the entire chapter and it makes sense.



I'm not really sure what the problem with this particular verse is. I'm not making a value judgment one way or the other on this. It is directly observable this is happening already regardless of how I feel about it. Nothing in the verse says man must do the killing.



Since men cannot have children, I can understand the childbearing part being specific to women. Faith, love, and holiness applies to both, so that includes women. As far as submissiveness, I haven't met a submissive woman, so I cannot speak to things I have never experienced. I know less about women than I do about basket weaving.



It is a good book. You'll see that once you read it, instead of grabbing fragments out-of-content off of web-sites designed to attack it. I can take anything you say during the day and take clips out of it to make it mean something entirely different. Heck, you see that happen on CNN every day.

I think a lot of people today hate Christianity because they hate how they were brought-up. The link things that are not Christianity, like boring masses, child molesting priests, and oppressive self-righteous parents/peers, with Christianity. Those are HUMANS doing evil things under the guise of Christianity, but they do not define what Christianity IS by doing so. If you want to truly understand what Christianity is, read the book "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. There is a man who was a true Christian. Coincidentally, he didn't beat slaves, kill homosexuals, rape daughters, and molest boys to be one.

And 4 out of 5 doctors think you'll get less cavities chewing sugarless gum. Does this make the 1 out of 5 doctors right?

Thats a sophism. The bible is nothing more than a human construct, and as such we humans have complete power over how it develops. As I said earlier, there are many more despicable things in the Bible. I am not going to go through the book, and show them to you; do your reading, you will find them. I have provided enough evidence in my quotes to establish that the Bible is a despicable book.

Also, I got my story from the Book of Judges. The old man allows his daughter and a concubine to be raped. What is the story? A parable of morals?

Also, how do you know the words of the Bible were "given to them by God"? Show me the evidence.

So, you think slavery back then was a good thing? You said employment is just being a "wage slave", but never denounced slavery. The bible clearly supports it it seems. Don't use a smoke screen, you have no response to that quote.

It says the man must forfeit his life. Obviously, God or humans are going to do that. Nice dodge there though. Are you talking about AIDS then? Oh please, so it must be Gods doing, right?

It says the world, as in the WHOLE PLANET. Also, the known world was not totally flooded either; only the Nile. This story is also reproduced in a myriad of religious texts, including Zarathustra's religion, where it was probably stolen from originally. Also, the planet was not made in 6 days. There is so much to argue, and you can contort it all you want, but the Bible is wrong. Your trying to get into an argument over semantics. How do you want it to be interpreted? If I interpret it one way, you'll just twist it around.

Also, I thought God was omniscience, he should of been able to know that Slavery would of been deemed wrong. Of course, you support slavery ,so thats not much of problem , is it? You said yourself that society could not function without it; does that make it alright? Well, why am I asking you? I'm not judging you, Im judging the bible, and you clearly couldn't contort out of that little quote, could you?

Its not a good book. Read the Old Testament. Its obvious he was a VENGEFUL, JEALOUS GOD (He says so himself). He urged his people to commit multiple genocides !
In the book of Numbers, Moses orders the Jews to kill all male prisoners. Look it up. He had previously said you shall not kill! There is your contradiction.

It seems its just sophisms, contortions, and telling me to "read more of the Bible". Really, how much of the quote must I post before it'll work for you? Please, give me something logical. In all honesty, lets go to where I have more knowledge, and thats philosophy. If we continue arguing biblical scripture, your just going to continue contorting and "interpreting" the scripture in however way you please, and ignoring that which you cannot.

There is no god, You can't give a shred of evidence for him, and so that makes the idea of God just as real as the idea of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Also, I don't hate a fictional character, thats absurd. It's just untrue.

Nobody wants to hear about it. I'm a good church-going Christian and outside of that hour each week, even I don't usually want to hear about it. Plus, I really hate it when people accuse me of not being Christian enough. So what if most of my prayer takes place in the bathroom?

Ugh... Considering that Jesus was supposed to die for our sins, none of us are going to hell.
And that's Christian belief, or how you're supposed to interpret it. Besides, most religions have about the same set rules to follow like christianity, and Christians don't act any kinder than athiests.

If you ask me, religion is useless, and if there was a god s/he'd be useless. Life makes it's own miracles.

Well, one thing that certainly isn't defined is the definition of a "day." And a lot of the info presented in the Bible was presented that way to the people of the day, who were unlikely to understand the concept of many millennia.

As for the submissive woman bit, that's just a social contract with 2 sections of requirements. The woman is only supposed to be submissive if the man works only with her best interests in mind and protects her from danger and stuff like that. Once that's violated, the contract is broken and she can do what as she likes.

I don't particularly like the wording of it myself, but then again, this is from a long time ago and was a pretty radical statement for its day.

I agree. Seven in ancient Hebrew is the number for infinity. Want proof? Genesis isn't the only place it's used; Jesus said that you had to forgive people 7^7777^77777 (or something like that, not sure, but it involved a lot of sevens). Did he mean do the math and keep track? No! He meant always forgive.

The idea that the Earth was created in only seven days only a few thousand years ago is outrageous and out of touch with the present century. I have an allergic reaction to creationists; I punch them in the face.

Completely agree. I was raised on national geographic and christianity. That and 80s music.

Evolution is a big part of my belief process.

I wasn't really, although my mom is christian as she's the one who told me all this.
I'm an athiest and a darwinist borderline laveyan satanist with Buddhist ideas, but I love the bible as a marvelous piece of literature, and hence I'm upset when the people that should be experts on it are the ones who interpret it the worst.

I've read genesis, exodus and leviticus and a whole bunch of bits and pieces here and there, and I can safely say that the context is exactly as bad as if not worse than the verses sound.

How about for life itself?



Both were created by man...

The problem with basing an argument over Christianity on the Bible is that both sides can cheat too easily. Those Christians can weasel out of Old Testament complaints by claiming that Jesus "overruled" the OT. All you need is Jesus and Love. Those arguing against the OT (or the Bible in general) are holding a loosely knit confederacy (Christians) responsible for a text that is much bigger and varied than their dogma allows.
I've been there, done that, both sides. I will say it's completely dishonest for most Protestants and Evangelicals to claim ignorance or non-adherence to the OT. I was raised as an Evangelical and attended various Protestant churches throughout my childhood until college. We were brought up mainly on OT. I knew the OT better than the New Testament. Average Catholics aren't taught the OT or even Biblical texts, so we'll leave them out of it.
The OT served as a historical text and "lessons" to live by. The more extreme the sect, the more they adhered to separationist type of observance (dress codes, hair length, gender roles, language style, colloquial lifestyle). The more liberal a sect, the more they depended on a more open interpretation of "Jesus". But it's all based on the Original Sin of the OT and you have to be saved from it.

OTOH, there are plenty of churchgoers and liberal Christians that ignore the OT for a simplistic and more existential relationship with Jesus. So, holding all Christians responsible for what the Bible says is kind of futile.

Surely if the words came from God, the social development of man would not come into it. The bible is supposedly there to teach what is right so would it not have led the way from the begining and led our social development from the begining?



Christianity is pretty much repeating what you've been told.



Again, if the words came from God, wouldn't he have been aware of the entire world?



The 'good book' is supposed to teach how to live your life right, not however is economically viable at the time isn't it?

Trying to liken slavery to modern working life is a little far fetched. I have the fredom to change jobs if I'm not happy with my employer & earn enough to live and also extra for enjoyment. How many slaves had these privelages?



Religion causing war... Suprised?



Why do you need to fight for an all powerfull lord?



The problem with the quote is it's condeming gay people for something they are, not something they've chosen. Why would that be in a 'good book'?



I've not been raised into any religion yet see them for what they are, mainly ancient guides created/commisioned by men in power, who wanted to tell people how to live life. In todays society, where most know whats acceptable and whats not, it's not really required.

Your friend asked you for the information, so I think you were correct in supplying the answers. It's not your fault if your friend did not like the answer. Sometimes, people will ask you about your religion to try and convince you that it's wrong. Their real intent is to convert you. If you feel more comfortable around Christians, then stick with them.

I'm a Christian and I used to have a friend who is a Pagan and a Vegan. I never talked to her about Christianity because she never would have accepted it. But, she would talk to me all the time about being a Vegan. She was sending me articles everyday about why meat is bad for people etc..........I couldn't go to a restaurant with her without her commenting on my food selection. I had to end the friendship because of her zealous attempts to get me to give up meat, cheese, and eggs .