Is lower functioning austim inheritable?

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That would be a wrong view based upon long dead history.

I didn't know a better phrase. If you know one, let me hear it. I could use it.

Jon

Well, yeah, we were a bunch of weed smoking hippies but that was times. I haven't smoke pot for years and years.

Jon and OregonBecky,

I am gonna ask you a question that you might find it very rude but please think about it with your mind and not with your 'heart' before answering:


If you two are sent back by a TimeMachine to a time before you two getting married , would you change any decision regarding your marriage and having kids?

Don't answer with 'I don't know...' , your answers must have at least 'yes' or 'no'.

Am have LFA,and believe am got it from dad [who is on the spectrum],there is a lot more autism and aspergers in the family,and mum thinks it's on her side of the family to [both LFA and HFA].

You are? Can I ask what you see of difference between you and AS/HFA?

And I didn't do drugs, at all. Never really interested. Just one of those geek science/math types.

Jon

Absolutely, yes, I would change things! My daughter has a very scary future looming ahead. Now my husband and I are devoting the rest of our lives to insure that our kids will have the kind of supportive communities that they deserve. Maybe we'll die before we can make things happen for them but for now, we just keep our eyes on the prize.

I wouldn't have had children. I don't think I'd be happier or sadder without kids, so it's not about that. It's about the uncertain future for our kids. They didn't ask to be born. I owe then everything because without me, they wouldn't exist and be so vulnerable.

Jon always liked the idea of kids. I didn't but when my dog died, I wanted pets that lasted longer.

Becky's answer is about right for me, but a little less nuanced. She focused more on the yes/no of would we have children. I feel a little more... conflicted.

When we decided to have children, my part of it (and I think hers, too, because we at least discussed this then) was that I was so filled up with love for her (and still am) that it was bleeding on the floor, it dripped from me. It was in such a concentrated ball that it just had to blow up and expand to fill more of the world. There was so much feeling. (Yeah, I'm sure I'm not the first or last person to feel like that. And remember that Becky is my _first_ and only. I waited until I was 25 to have any relationship at all. I didn't even hold hands until then. So it was all a little overwhelming, even some years later when we decided to have children.) We (or I) felt that having kids would just expand that so much more. It was like "expanding our love." Seemed like that.

The genetic counseling didn't leave us with any concerns from that quarter and at some point we decided we were ready and I decided for myself that we could take on the responsibilities. I think Becky was more concerned about that aspect, since neither of us had good parenting from our parents. But with the idea of questioning ourselves at every turn and looking deeply at ourselves, I think she finally agreed that we might be able to find our way. Looking back, I think our hearts have remained well centered there, though we might change some of what we did here and there. And we sought advice from every corner. In the end, others today tell us we are exceptional parents so maybe, just maybe, we were able to come through okay on that score.

But no way would I want to subject such a wonderful and innocent and lovely girl like Athena to the life she faces. She deals with so much and does it all with such bravery and courage. And it tears my heart to see what lies in her future. What kind of monster would I be to wish that upon her, or anyone?

Jon

Jon and Becky,

I feel for the both of you. It's obvious that you love your kids more than most parents would.

But at the same time, your posts make me sad.

I just hope you never tell your kids that you would change things if you could.

My mom never told me this, but I found on my own that she truely believes she should have never met my dad. Knowing this pisses me off greatly, because if they never met, neither me or my brother would be here. I now feel like a mistake, and will for the rest of my life.

She's remarrying in a week. That also pisses me off, as I consider it to be a form of adultery.

She should be more grateful.

beau, those are good points. Before Civil Rights for black people, black parents had kids anyway, knowing full well what they were up against. But the difference is, most black people had a strong sense of community and watched out for each other, knowing that they weren't going to get any help from the majority culture. That's why I wish we had a strong spectrum culture.

And, beau, you've said that you want kids. It's an overwhelming job for aspies and my kids would have greatly benefitted from having more people to turn to.

One more thing, my son would feel exactly the way you feel about remarriage. He would consider it adultry, too.

It's overwhelming for anyone.

But I do have someone to turn to, thankfully.

LePetitPrince,
Am do not have the strength to go into full now,but will write a few-the need of 24hr supervision/support in secure adapted home-the need for 1-1 or 2-1 staff all day and night [or whole team if am headbanging or meltdowning which usually happens everyday],the need for makaton signing and family or staff who are trained in it or at the least the PDA or LT for either full [when non verbal] or backup,staff also have to be trained in autism and complex needs [and have been,by old autism speech therapist,who diagnosed am,and the inhouse autism/behavioral specialised pysch].
when am verbal,am speak mostly in echolilia [not through choice,am cannot speak outside of echolilia],am thought this was 'normal' until the speech therapist discussed it and gave it a name.
Am have no sense of danger,or awareness of whats going on around self-especially outside-am classed as an 'absconder' as am
try to wander off a lot when not right,want to get away from something etc...,am extremely information overloaded,and need verbal/visual help putting clothes on,as there are too many steps involved,am extremely affected by sensory problems-to the point of police having to get involved,am lose vision when overloaded,cannot leave the house without wearing ear defenders and ear plugs,am sent into instant MD mode without them if school children are outside,or any other noises am cannot cope with.
Am stuck to being in the home most of the time because am unable to use public transport [unless it's one of the small buses,with no people on them and no radio on or ring and ride] so am have to use taxis,and even then it's not good because a lot of them dont want to turn off their radios [as in music/talking,not the talking thing they use] even when staff explain, some have banned am because of being set off into MD/HB in the back due to their switching on radio,am cannot go to the park to go on the swings because it's got a building site next to it now,staff are finding out whether am could get a mobility car [staff would drive] as am get high level mobility of dla,it'd give some life back.
Am cannot wash 'normally' because the feeling of water flowing on skin causes agony and sets off MD,so use babywipes for washing instead.
Am have a lot of difficulty with food,and only eat a few things,because am cannot cook,if staff are on with am,who am have not built up a routine with,am can not accept any food,and can go days without it,am don't have feelings for food either-but am use complan at night time when nightstaff take over,if have not had food.
Am end up headbanging anything,and going into full on meltdown mode anywhere if am cannot cope cope with anything [mainly sensory or changes related],am constantly rocking [inc. when standing]and often flesh biting,am have no sense of pain and [as a cutter] am have ended up causing a lot of mess due to not recognising had gone to far with a knife [they lock knives,scissors etc away from am,and try to rip off ring pulls from finished cans so it doesn't happen as bad].
am do not understand when am need to go to the toilet,and have had 'accidents',but unlike auties who have this problem worse,am able to feel it when it's squeezy,and usually am near enough the toilet to get there in time.
Homes have to be adapted for am,including with padding on walls because of headbanging,big radiator covers as am do not notice when am stuck to them,floors need to be wooden type,so no hoover is needed.
An autism specialised speech therapist spent a year working with and assessing am a while back,and said it was classical autism [had been previously diagnosed with a load of other stuff including ASD],was not high functioning,seconded what the pysch had said about multiple learning difficulties and have high complex needs and challenging behavior.
Am also on two medications for the meltdowns [one of which stopped am from meltdowning/attacking at others]the other has weakened them.
That is just a little,anymore and am will be unable to think,too long post.

Actually, our youngest child actually was a mistake. We'd decided not to have more children and got pregnant, anyway. We discussed the possibility of abortion but decided against it and instead made the choice that I'd get fixed right away so it couldn't happen again by accident. Lee knows. He doesn't care, at all. The reason? Because he knows how much we love him by our every action and the time we share with him. He is completely secure in his knowledge of self worth with us and has no doubts about our feelings. Lee is diagnosed autistic, seriously enough that he receives SSI (and they insisted on their own separate evaluation before that happened) and is receiving state services, as well. But he is very bright, too, and we wouldn't change a single thing about him that he doesn't himself want help changing.

Your statement that you will feel like a mistake leads me to imagine that you are not secure in the love you receive, that if feels somehow conditional or burdensome. And that saddens me so much. I feel no burden at all about Lee and I certainly do not ever do anything knowingly to let him feel that way. And he knows he is unconditionally loved and accepted as a whole and complete person, not broken in any way at all.

I feel the same way about Athena, too. She is also a whole person, not broken. And I love every bit of who she is, as a person. I accept her, all of her. And that is why when I see her having such terrible troubles and where I see either than she dies by a terrible accident or else goes to a home where the people there cannot and will not give her the kinds of long term, safe, and caring relationships that she deserves to have... well, I've no problem with the idea of changing some of my actions were I to able to.

In fact, I did. I got a vasectomy. All the children I might have had since that point do not exist and will never exist and I will not get to know them. And I'm sure that I would have had so much love for them, too. Does that make me a horrible person for getting fixed? I think not.

It would take quite a monster of a person, I think, to intentionally and with malice aforethought bring someone into the world with so much suffering ahead of them. If there was a strong community for people like her; if it weren't the case that there is so much abuse at the hands of the systems of care we have -- it is chronic and serious and widespread; if it weren't the case that people in group home care experience 25 years shorter lives.. not because of their disability but instead because of _acquired_ problems due to the shoddy care our country provides them... if there was a place where they would be loved as I love them after I'm dead... then I might agree. So long, of course, as the suffering itself due to the disability could be mitigated. In some cases, the problem itself is the purest form of misery and the good or bad of the society around them doesn't matter that much. But I think that Athena could have a good life in the right community. But that community doesn't exist, right now. So when we die... well,..

Some day, when you get a chance, google up "suicide murder autism" and see what you find. I cannot tell you how many times I've had a parent of a profoundly autistic child freely discuss the fact that they intend to just take their kid into the garage with themselves and turn on the car and end it, when they get to the point where they cannot take care of their children anymore. Many, many times. In once case, I got a call from a mother who was going to do that, the very next day, and was calling me about her situation. Becky and I were able to make a difference in time in this case. But just barely. And the solution worked really well. We got a call a couple of weeks later and she was so happy and changed. But that's just one case and there are so many out there and the problems are so varied.

A society should be measured, not by how it treats the most wealthy within it, but by how it treats the least among us. And by that measure, no society ranks very high. Certainly, not the US.

In any case, it saddens me that a mere comment like that from your mother can hurt you so deeply, because it means something else is going on. We just asked Lee and he just laughed. He knows he's a mistake and doesn't even care. Because he knows we accept and love all of him, completely and unconditionally. So being a mistake is just an ironic joke, that's all. Nothing he takes seriously. Because he is secure in who he is and his place in our family.

Jon

**bows to KingdomOfRats**

No , I am not being sarcastic ....this is a bow of respect. A respect for the great struggle that you have to do in your life. Even as a HFA who struggled in childhood , I feel that my condition really really silly compared to yours and every Aspie who nags about his very mild condition must feel even sillier when he/she reads your post.

There was an aspie there who said once in a post that he sees LFAs as 'little brothers' ... but I see the classic autistics as real Autistics with real classic autism. The mild autistic is just a cookie compared to the classic autism , LFA/HFA/AS labels should not be related to IQ but it's more likely related to Autism's Severity . They say that most LFAs are born with mental retardation but is this true? If it's somehow true then it's not your cause for sure and your posts prove that.

Autism is developmental condition. Simply having the genes is only half the story. It is simplistic to assume that LFA parents create LFA children and HFA Parents create HFA child. Besides the picture it is different. It is autism that is inherited not necessarily the level of functioning.

jon and becky,

Thank you very much for your post and I highly respect your total honesty.

Now users like ToadOfSteel , srriv345 and AspieDave should shut up after reading your posts and they should stop accusing me of being cruel for my 'eugenics-oriented thinking'.

PS: it all started with this crazy thread : http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt54014.html , I really like to know the opinions of Jon and Becky of it because I know that your opinions will be very objective.


To every Aspie/Autistic who's planning to marry another Aspie/Autistic , there are some ethical points that you should know about:

1-Read the previous posts because you won't appreciate what I am gonna write below if you don't read them.

2-Having children must not be taken slightly as 'love expansion' or 'love expression' , having children is a huge responsibility and be really carefully planned before , the most important point in this plan must be the life's quality of your offspring before anything else. Having children is a not a game.

3- If you are autistic and you love another autistic then adopt a child rather having a child from your both genes...you can even adopt an autistic child if you want .

4-If you desire to 'expanse love' with your partner then do it by adopting a child and by raising him/her.

5-If you desire to give birth of autistic/aspie children because you want to expanse autism in the world and want to expanse the number of autistics people then you are stupid fool selfish bigots that don't deserve to be parents of any child.

6- Learn from other parents who are suffering with their children with difficult conditions.

7- Remember, as Becky said.... children don't ask to be born...remember that well.

8-It's very cruel for gambling with your life's quality of your offspring when this gambling is too risky and it's much more cruel than having a 'eugenics-oriented thinking' and adopting an orphan child.

These 5 points can be applied too on everyone who has a serious genetic disorder/condition.