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Is the pecking order a good thing for society?

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Warsie
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12 Aug 2008, 4:07 pm

Greentea wrote:
Is this NT thing of always having someone who is more powerful and deferred to and another who is less powerful and given in to only when they manage to manipulate the situation a good thing for humanity?


f**k no it isn't. Arguably that shows that humanity is unevolved and still resorting to the "Alpha Male/Female" primitive s**t.

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Why is it that everyone defends it so adamantly?


"Society must be organized, or chaos and anarchy will rule, and that's wrong to all of us; order is good" or something similar


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Does the pecking order serve a goal in society that is more important than the rssentments, frustration, alienation, manipulation, etc. it causes?


no.


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12 Aug 2008, 4:10 pm

slowmutant wrote:
With any social animal, any herd-animal like the human being, pecking orders and hierarchies are to be expected. Face it-- the human being loves order and hierarchy and status. I myself think nothing of it. In fact, I aspire to integrate more fully into society.


Heard of the group "Anonymous", or Soviets, Collectives, Autogestion, etc?


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12 Aug 2008, 4:18 pm

Greentea wrote:
Is the pecking order a good thing for society?


'good, bad; i'm the one with the gun.' - ash, 'army of darkness'

also see 'beyond good and evil' by nietzsche, and 'the communist manifesto' by marx and engles.


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12 Aug 2008, 4:24 pm

Greentea wrote:
Is this NT thing of always having someone who is more powerful and deferred to and another who is less powerful


we are apes. our dna is overwhelming that of ape dna. it's in our dna to have alpha males and those subservient. we can't fight that, it's the way of nature. that's just how apes do things. you can try to fight it, and others can try to believe you, but it's hard coded in at absolutely the most basic level.


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12 Aug 2008, 4:29 pm

adverb wrote:
we are apes. our dna is overwhelming that of ape dna. it's in our dna to have alpha males and those subservient. we can't fight that, it's the way of nature. that's just how apes do things. you can try to fight it, and others can try to believe you, but it's hard coded in at absolutely the most basic level.


It's natural for humans to kill everything in sight and eat their flesh, but that doesn't mean humans try to stop or limit it via environmental regulationa ans the like.

Also in the Spanish Civil War, Anarchist Spain did a damn good job in helping to destroy the master/slave lord/serf relationship.


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12 Aug 2008, 6:27 pm

I believe that it is. There are those who want to be ruled, and/or want the responsibility of running things to be deferred to higher-ups, just as there are people who want to rule, and want responsibilities. There are different types of hierarchical structures, however. Some might be really authoritarian, and others more relaxed. It keeps society together.

Bigotry isn't very nice, especially when people enjoy high social status and riches without having earned it, and believe that they are so much better than everyone else. I.e. "royal" families.
Worse still, is free-for-all social darwinism, where people are forced to work or die. Modern civilisation should be past that.


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12 Aug 2008, 11:51 pm

corroonb wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Oh, believe me, I am in the US and there is plenty of dissent but this is needed everywhere.

I don't feel as comfortable because the area I am in is so conservative but at least I can talk about my discomfort, express it and maybe influence another's opinion to be a little less extreme. (I don't consider myself to be an extremist)

I am always complaining and I am so glad I have that right. Everyone should have that right.


Democracy is great in theory but in practice big business and special interest groups (religions, ethnic groups, smoking lobbies, gun lobbies etc.) have far more influence on the process than any one person. Even Obama will be in debt to a large range of groups who provided his funding and this will limit his freedom to act if he is elected. Most of these interest groups are not democratic and are not interested in people's welfare.


Ask yourself:

Are those special interests part of the democratic ideal or part of the corruptive influence?

A special interest group isn't a bad thing if it represents you, right? Like, an Asperger's Syndrome Lobby. Would you disagree with a lobby advocating for people who have Autistic Spectrum Disorders?



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13 Aug 2008, 5:46 am

Warsie wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
With any social animal, any herd-animal like the human being, pecking orders and hierarchies are to be expected. Face it-- the human being loves order and hierarchy and status. I myself think nothing of it. In fact, I aspire to integrate more fully into society.


Heard of the group "Anonymous", or Soviets, Collectives, Autogestion, etc?


I have not. If you're such a fan of communism, go to China. Have your preconceptions shattered there.



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13 Aug 2008, 5:54 am

Warsie wrote:
adverb wrote:
we are apes. our dna is overwhelming that of ape dna. it's in our dna to have alpha males and those subservient. we can't fight that, it's the way of nature. that's just how apes do things. you can try to fight it, and others can try to believe you, but it's hard coded in at absolutely the most basic level.


It's natural for humans to kill everything in sight and eat their flesh, but that doesn't mean humans try to stop or limit it via environmental regulationa ans the like.

Also in the Spanish Civil War, Anarchist Spain did a damn good job in helping to destroy the master/slave lord/serf relationship.


GIVE ME a break! Humans are considered great apes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

Gorillas are strong and big, but relatively docile. I know chimps can be nasty but, again, they often seem playful. Orangutans seem kind of playful also. YEAH, I KNOW they can all kill, etc....

Frankly, I don't think the idea of alpha is driven by DNA in humans.



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13 Aug 2008, 5:59 am

Humans are not great apes. That is an insult to the great apes. :wink:



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13 Aug 2008, 1:13 pm

I feel sad for apes. People are always insulting apes like they are just ret*d humans but they are not humans and they deserve respect for what they are...seperate species entirely.



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13 Aug 2008, 1:26 pm

Agree with Ana.
There is no reason for a chimpanzee to wear a suit, smoke a cigarette, or ride a pony.
Apes are beautiful creatures.