Maxine Aston and other researchers

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edited to add.........I had already seen that, but it still evokes the above reaction. Oops feel it coming on AGAIN sorry

Yeah, it is a bit of a repeater...

That's such an excellent post, DW_a_mom, one to cut out and keep! I agree with the way you see AS parents as not perfect, but explainable due to them having to get by in a society that can be quite hostile to them.

After saying some harsh things from memory about Maxine Ashtons book "Aspergers in Love", I thought I'd dig it out to check that I'd remembered correctly. In some ways the book is worse than I'd remembered. There are *some* parts sensitive to AS, but there are also some outrageous conclusions being jumped to that portray AS in a very negative light. Also there are some interesting questions that leap out from the figures she quotes, but she ignores those questions. Overall, if she's supposed to be a 'friend' if those with AS, I dread what our enemies would write!

Here's some interesting quotes from Chapter 17 "Domestic Violence and AS":

"40% of AS men .....had been physically abusive to their partner. These figures are fairly high...". However only 10% say these attacks were unprovoked. They were "only in retaliation", "only to respond to extreme physical aggression". Well they would say that, are they making excuses? Not according to MA who then confirms the AS men viewpoint: "in most examples...their NT partners confirm that they did attack [the AS man] first..".

Wow. That's amazing because those figures imply that 36% of AS men are getting attacked by their partners! At least 36%, because it doesn't include those who didn't retaliate. Does MA follow up this potential bombshell? Maybe later. Are violent women attracted to AS men? Do AS men drive their women to uncontrollable violence? Read on....

p137: "...her AS partner does not show any emotional response towards her and [she]... may find herself frustrated by his lack of response. This frustration may cause her to become physically aggressive....she feels pushed into this role" .

p139: " Many NT women said that, despite the fact that their partners had never harmed them, they still felt threatened. Some said they felt ... a darker and more sinister side in their partners."

Which seems to reinforce my theory that there are those with a certain kind of mental instability and/or personality disorder that leads them to form relationships with AS people. Primarily for control and because it's easy for them to shift the blame for disagreements to their partner. As MA says when talking about what attracted the NT wives to the AS men: "..they felt they were in control".

So there you have it. If an AS man is aggresive to his NT wife, he's to blame. If an NT wife hits her AS husband, then he is also to blame.

There's so much of this in her book, she treats infidelity in *exactly* the same way as aggression. If an AS man has an affair, it's his fault. If his wife has an affair then the AS husband drove the poor hard done by soul to it.

The fundamental flaw is that the book is all stories . People make up stories. Reading between the lines, there is clearly something 'odd' about many of the NT wives she describes. I'm not sure that this oddness leads to the "Cassandra syndrome".

My totally biased opinion is that MA has some good ideas and good intentions, but she's absorbed too much of the 'men are too blame for everything, women are perfect angels' hype that elements of the media inflict on us.

AMEN

Am I very much misconstruing Ms Aston, or is she arguing that people with AS have characteristics such that we provoke violence against us, and/or that violence against us is understandable?
I am unable to differentiate between such a view and hate speech.

I was thinking about Zonder, the act of considering an aspect of AS or autism in an original way does make him a researcher. If I was to hold and express the view that "Aspie good, NT bad" ot would make be a neurobigot and I would also be like one of the sheep in animal farm. I hold the view that some Aspies and some NTs are able to make useful, valid and good work on autism and related conditions.

I know that on WP that at least one other person is working towards a PhD on autism related science, which is strong evidence that an aspie or autie can do valid and worthwhile original work on their own condition. I am hopeful that the PhD student will be able to publish in the academic literature both for their own sake and becuase to fail to publish the work would be sad.

The key thing about Zonder which stands in his favour is that he is willing to undergo peer review and then permit his work to be discussed by others. It is possible that after reading his paper that someone else might publish another paper either supporting his findings or a paper which is a counterblast. In the case of a "researcher" who skips the academic paper stage and goes straight to a book, then it is still possible for a supportive paper or a counterblast to be written but it will slow and hinder the publication of either type of paper.

HarryWilliams wrote that Maxine claimed that we are carcinogenic, this is a very serious charge. I think you should provide some better evidence than a link to that blog. A quote from an interview with Maxine or from one of her books would be a good idea.

I hate to have to say this, but to make such a claim without good evidence is libel. Even Maxine should have protection under the libel law. BTW The best defence against libel is the absolute defence of showing what you wrote is true.

O, I'm quite happy to defend myself in court...

You'll have to wait until the New Republic publishes its full story, if you want to see the documents.

Do you know when it is due for publishing? I would be very interested to read that. Will it include an interview with MA herself?

I do again agree with Woodpecker though, I do think one should be very careful of what is said/posted or reported, libel law is a expensive issue and could end in tears for everyone.

Maybe MA may post? She has the right to reply after all and I always prefer to hear both points of view.

Late spring. And the cancer thing is only the half of it.

Thank you. I shall be watching out for it with interest. Late May maybe?

i'm so damned glad i didn't go to see this abomination of a woman now...instead of councilling me she might have screwed me up even more! she'd have probably told me that everything that happened in the past was my fault and i would have ended up suicidal, which is when someone would have had to step in and sue the b***h...

lucky escape!

loving the "heffer in a pink cardigan" description ^.^

Thanks for your comments, Woodpecker . . . .

I've been researching the Autism Spectrum for five years (frankly, I've been somewhat obsessed about the topic) and I've written an article based on my experience of having many of the characteristics of ASD, but being able to compensate enough that it has been difficult for me to be diagnosed. The journal to which I submitted asked for case studies, and I felt that I could make a contribution by describing my deficits, both as my family remembers and as I experience them, and as they have been measured recently with educational and autism spectrum testing.

I additionally propose a simple theory about why some of those who are labeled as gifted also appear to have social and learning difficulties.

My M.A. is history related, so I don't know if I will be taken seriously. But I am happy to have what I've written reviewed. Unlike Ms. Aston, I don't have a vendetta against Spectrumites because I consider myself to be one as well.

Z

Well in her own words, the answer would appear to be "Yes" to both questions, More specifically, AS men have a tendancy to provoke violence from their female partners.

Again, to be fair, she does state that violence is not acceptable, but then goes on to make excuses for lapses in behaviour of NT wives. I guess this book must have been the forerunner of the Cassandra Complex. It all reeks of double standards to me, but then I'm sure she'd accuse me of 'black and white' thinking! For the life of me, I can't understand how it's OK to say that an unemotional man can drive his wife to violence, yet not OK to say that a nagging wife can drive her husband to violence.

Another think that strikes me, having through family connections and personal experience learnt a lot of what goes on in 'Therapy' world, is the general atmosphere that therapists inhabit. They tend to want to label every example of less-than-ideal behaviour as some sort of disorder. As if the ideal world should be like being immersed in a sweet pink fluffy blancmange and anything that interferes with this, such as anger, jealousy, deceit etc, must be a symptom of a mental illness. Perhaps a not yet diagnosed illness. Even better if you can invent the label yourself. For example, I once mentioned to one that I had a blocked ear, the immediate reply was "is there something you're trying to avoid hearing?". Well, no, I really *want* to hear as well as possible. However, the more I said it was purely a physical problem, the more she said the blocked ear and all of my responses were psychological. She's probably written a book by now "Cloth ear syndrome and the person who refuses to listen to sense"

The other think that I've had disagreements with several therapists over is that they have to accept their clients story as the truth. I know they have their explanation for this, but it strikes me as a huge flaw in the process. The same goes for the anecdotal evidence books like Aspergers In Love are based on. At least she did verify that 90% of the violence by AS men was seriously provoked. Seems to me each statement made by people needs to be verified. Both partners may accuse the other of being "emotionally disconnected from me" and a thousand other things. How are you going to sort this out?

She's probably written a book by now "Cloth ear syndrome and the person who refuses to listen to sense"


Many a true word spoken in jest.

Her response to her detractors are encapsulated in her concept of "Aspergers in Denial".

Curioser and Curioser.............................I am intrigued, concerned and looking forward to some clarification on this subject.