Child psycopaths/narcists with AS

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how can you say it's not wrong to be a narcissist? a narcissist doesn't have a "disorder", the diagnosis is simply a collection of personal traits, most of which are appalling, much like the psychopath. of course it's wrong to be manipulative and cruel to people if you are doing it for the fun of it, whether you label it as narcissism or simple evil is really not interesting. AS is disabling because it inhibits social interaction and relationships, narcissism simply means you only care about yourself and therefor behave a certain way.

AS and narcissism/psychopathy are not only worlds apart diagnostically, but also concerning their very nature. narcissism is not a neurological condition, it's a definition of an appalling personality type.

I've already started to deal with the medusas, for some time. I can see a ray of light somewhere and I can be humble to myself and accept my own weaknesses but I still have problems with the "minotaurs", and I know exactly what you mean by that metaphor. My "labyrinth" also feels like a very tight knot which I can't dissolve completely, it just ties back together when I'm faced with a minotaur. My brother is a minotaur. He's ignorant and arrogant and think he's "better" than me because he has a driver's license and is studying to become a teacher. As long as he's around, even my parents start treating me like I was an idiot. They don't believe I know anything about anything and they just say "yeah, yeah whatever" if I talk about any academical subject or anything I've noticed about society and how it's structured.
One side of me really hates them. Not even if I could escape my labyrinth I think it would give me any purpose or happiness to get a politically correct quasi education like my brother, and pretend it's the key to infinite truth. I just want to get away from my family and love someone.

The minotaurs are everywhere and I'm never going to just kneel to them and let them pat me on the head and accept their ingorant reality as truth. Do I really have to do this? Isn't it enough knowing that I know more and not let their small mindedness affect me? I don't want to be like them and be told "good boy, you finally got some sense into that head of yours". Anyone who is that judgmental is a bad person in my oppinion. It's the same people who, even if they act polite, look down on aspies and view AS as a retardation worthy only of being patronized to make oneself feel better. I would rather commit suicide than accept that I'm just a subhuman in the world of these people and that these people rule society through majority and averageness.

Two things: That means they dont understand, not that they are necessarily belittling you. Second, most neurotypicals do not like to think too deeply about stuff like that. It is ingrained to think that they are unique, and they dont appreciate having that illusion popped. People - of all neurologies - dont like to have it pointed out that their behavior is less than original, less than mechanical.

Sorry for mistaking you for a girl. The assumption came from the plastic surgery. What did you have done?

Fixed my nose, eyebrows/forehead and lips.

Well look at that. No swine flu listed, nor HIV AIDS for that matter. Yay, we must be impervious to all these terrible things non-AS people can suffer.

In fact I must have been misdiagnosed because I contracted chicken pox once and that's not listed as a potential co-morbid either. Of course a sensible person might conclude that the list is not exhaustive and that the absence of a clinical diagnosis from the list does not indicate that the condition cannot occur co-morbidly with AS.


I did a whole lot of talking too. In fact I was routinely accused of dominating conversations as a child.
People with AS can be verbose, and it's simply a paper-thin stereotype that regards all people with AS as quiet or shy or introverted. Not verbalizing much in someone who has no speech delay and is capable of verbalization, is a personality trait (ie shyness/introversion), and AS is not a personality type or trait.


Well it's not impossible that an Aspie might behave/cognate in such a way, but I do not believe these traits are typical or predicted of someone with AS. They do sound a great deal like the traits considered typical to/predicted of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder though.

Ive noticed that I have a lot of narcissistic traits myself. But what concerns me sometimes is that I also go through mood swings which include what you might call *aggressive moods* where I am agitated and easily provoked and often think rather violent thoughts.I believe that Psychopaths who commit violent crimes do what they do because they have very strong aggressive impulses and in some cases are unable to control them. Now Pandd: Its funny that you mentioned Borderline Personality Disorder as predisposing people to manipulative tendencies. Based on both knowledge AND personal experience, I think that people with Bipolar Disorder(read MANIC-DEPRESSIVE) are by far the ones with manipulative tendencies and in some cases they can be physically violent when they are having a manic episode. Mania stimulates aggression, and aggression inhibits empathy. For the most part though I see narcissism as a learned behavior except in some very rare, extreme cases. Narcissism is excessive selfishness but the fact remains that we as human being are primarily Selfish, self-interested beings who are inherently competitive with one another. I often think that sociopathy and even psychopathy are socially constructed conditions describing behavior that we are taught is socially unacceptable. The root cause of violence boils down to competition; but since physical violence is against the law people turn to social and emotional violence as an acceptable way to compete with others for status Most people convicted of violent crimes are young men under age 30. Teenage boys have a VERY strong impetus to commit violent acts which is why there are socially acceptable activities like team sports for young males to vent their aggression.

Zoonic, do you have Mood Swings? Do you sometimes feel depressed and even suicidal while other times feeling omnipotent and excessively feisty? If you do then I honestly think you very well might have Bipolar Disorder. Honestly Im skeptical that you legitimately have AS, and it also sounds like the way your mother behaved might have had an impact on your excessive narcissism.

I used to be like that and was even about to go on lithium but then I changed my diet instead, started eating healthy sugar and chemical-free high nutrition food and since then my mood swings vanished and a neverchanging existential void took it's place.

I also have borderline tendencies. I can throw a tantrum and walk out from months of carefully planned work, ripping it all apart like a card house. I canceled several friendship relations this way.

The most scary thing about me is I have all these tendencies. I have a form of AS but I am also borderlinish, bipolar and with narcissistic/antisocial personality disorder since early childhood. The bipolar episodes started when I was put on anti-depressive medication in my mid teens. After that I was speeded for years, with random severe suicidal downs. At 19 my manic episode ended and was replaced with a grey depression, interrupted by short peaks where I drank too much and felt godlike and omnipotent and as if an angel would appear before me and tell me I was to have my name burned into history.

However, right now I feel balanced but my narcissistic and borderlinish traits are still there.

If it wasn't for the fact that the dominant part of my personality seems to be the love-seeking, compassionate self, I would have become some sort of serial killer no doubt. However, my compassionate side, even though it's passive, is still so strong that it prevents me from giving in to the hatred. I feel like I'm all about love, but when challenged my narcissistic personality and all the other disorders take over and the only thing keeping me from doing irreversible things is a voice of reason in the back of my head.
I've contacted psychiatrists but none is even remotely competent enough to start understanding all that is wrong with me.
I think I have at least four severe mental disorders along with AS.

One of the reasons I think of myself as superior is the fact I've managed to self-analyze and fight off the madness all my life. Even in my darkest moments when reality almost felt like it imploded around me and I could lie watching the room spin around me, I fought off the madness. At one time my feelings were so destructive that my cat, who I found abandoned as a kitten and had a very special relation to, woke up with a scream and walked over to the window while searching and acting paranoid. Somehow the destructive energy I emanated had caused the cat to have a nightmare. I was even scared myself that time, it felt as if the cat sensed the presence of a really dark power which somehow was entering through the window, even though it was just my own emotions that polluted the room.

The last six months I've been really stabile though. I don't see a purpose to life and I still can't handle people or hierarchy, but I'm somewhat happy on my own and I focus on positive thoughts of loving and caring for someone. This makes the darkness dissolve. On the outside, when dealing with others, I'm as calm, collected and regal as ever.

Actually my comments referred to an association/prediction (rather than commenting on actual traits and their actual prevalence) that I am aware of from literature. More significantly the actual trait/behavior I was referring to was this one:
I always want to be liked or loved and want to please, but I have averse reactions too, like if one loves me I have the urge to reject it and always destroy what could be nice,
This is often referred to in the literature (associated with Borderline Personality Disorder) as being a "push/pull" pattern and considered to be integral to the unstable relationship pattern associated with this condition.

Manipulation is very common and therefore not something (I consider) usually described as being associated with a particular condition, without knowing more contextual specifics.

I usually hurt people I liked, when I was younger, in a sort of massochistic way. Doing it was like stabbing myself over and over. I would make someone I cared for cry by attacking them until I felt their mental defences go soft, and instead of stopping then I would keep going until I was totally emptied and unable to feel anything because of mental and physical exhaustion. Afterwards I would apologize and cry, and feel like I wanted to die and as if I could never forgive myself for hurting a loved one.

Hey Zoonic

You will never find a psychiatrist or even psychologist competent enough to help you as much as you need, I doubt one even exists on the face of the earth who could help you with all the problems you face. Your problems are too complex and rare. First of all your personality is such that it understands the human condition to a far greater extent than pretty much all other personalities, so even your personality (without any emotional disorders, asperger's, or mental disorders) by itself is more complicated than those of the majority of psychologists/psychiatrists out there. Add to that freakishly high aspie intelligence and you are beyond pretty much all of them, and psychotherapy would be pretty much ineffective if you look down (understandably, especially while still disordered) on the intelligence of your psychologist, intuit the solutions quicker than them, and never be completely understood by them. Next there is the asperger's which nearly every single psychologist out there isn't going to understand completely how it affects your life, or how different your experience of the world is than theirs. Most will doubt that you even have it even after being diagnosed, just like the people on this forum who don't understand that you can have mild asperger's and still act the way you have done in your life. Finally there is the disorder(s) itself which most psychologists are of the opinion that it can never be fixed, and even if they did believe you could be healed they would have no idea how to do so, or more importantly, be able to get you to change yourself. That said, if you think a psychologist could help you keep looking, as there would probably at least be some benefits if you find a smart one.

About the minotaurs: I don't mean to be harsh when I say this, but the truth about the minotaurs is that you run so fast, and they are so slow, that the only threat to you they actually pose now that you are old and wise is the fear you allow them to create in you, keeping you from making progress in the labyrinth. Translated: The minotaurs are not the problem, you are the creator of your own personality, the master of your own thoughts and feelings, and as little control as you have over them right now, you have the potential to change everything about yourself and become a being with a love for himself and others that can never be destroyed no matter the situation or persons involved. You will even love those small-minded NT's who would backstab you in a second if they could for social power or money, your ability to empathize with everyone will become your greatest gift. Eventually you may even have a pure and true love for your mother, the person who turned you into the person you are, a narcissist herself who will likely never change. But you, Zoonic, you can change. You are smart and have a great understanding of yourself, your past, and your situation. The only control the minotaurs have over you is what you allow them. It is not your brother's fault you feel inferior when your parents don't respect you when he is around, even if he is arrogant and puts you down in your face YOU are the reason you hate the world and look down on everyone in it, and have an undying thirst for power and admiration, and as much anger and resentment as you have towards him, you also indirectly control these emotions as well subconsciously. You know you are better than this disorder, you know you are better than your petty hatreds and resentments, but your true self don't know it, and the root of your disorder is in your subconscious mind.
I noticed in another thread that you are able to change your state of mind to eliminate anxiety and act self confident. This is what you must do in your house, except instead create an inner mental environment in which there is only love, insults and disrespect CAN and WILL be ignored by you as being irrelevant to you and your person. If you find you are unable to do so, which is understandable, if you want to continue healing you may have to leave your house. Healing a personality disorder in a house of the personality disordered is no doubt much more difficult, especially since your disorder was created by you to deal with those same people.

You are 25 years old, and even if you live with your parents you do not need their respect, hell since you are trying to recover from this disorder you do not need anyone's respect anymore. You are the only person whose respect you actually need, and it is time for you to respect yourself, something you have never done on any level really, even if you have tricked yourself into believing you have self respect. The difference between a narcissist and a normal person is that a narcissist is unable to respect himself and so is reliant on other people's respect. You must learn to disregard other people's opinions of you as being irrelevant, positive or negative. All that matters is your true self.

On beginning a massive emotional transformation and healing:
Sit down and meditate or go for a long daily walk alone and make a routine. You can start healing any time you are alone.
Now, you have to search inside your abdomen (your emotional system) and find where the first pain is. You have massive amounts of negative energy in your body that must be released, and when it is all released you shall be healed, but the disorder is actually deeper, darker and more insidious than you can imagine right now, and truth be told you are actually a hell of a lot eviller than you currently believe yourself to be. Do not worry about this though, as you will soon be healed.

Now, this is the hard part: FEEL YOUR PAIN. Feel your pain so much that you feel like you are on fire and knives are stabbing into your heart, and feel this pain for as many hours as you need to feel it until it is permanently gone. You also have to ask your subconscious what the pain represents, and it will tell you. Once the pain has been felt and understood it will be permanently gone, tah dah!

The downside to this is that you may not be able to currently access the mental state necessary to feel your deep rooted emotional pain, and it may take a few more psychological revelations before you can begin this process of forgiveness and self understanding. Also you have so much pain that you will be in constant pain for the next few months, a constant burning in your heart and gut. But you must go through this, it is very necessary.

To heal yourself and become a wonderful person you must:
Accept all parts of yourself, the parts you hate, the subconscious repressed parts etc.
You must psychoanalyze your mind, especially your subconscious mind. Bring the darkness of your subconscious (where all that evil that you are currently unaware of resides) into the light, understand it and accept it. It is very easy to get in touch with your subconscious, even if you have never done it before if you have the desire it will start spitting out random mental images at you that you can analyze.
For example, say in your subconscious you find you have the desire to commit rape and murder. Instead of suppressing these urges you must understand them and accept them, and then make a personal vow with your true self not to commit them because you love yourself too much.
Here is an example from my own darkness that I am not proud of (and please note everyone who reads this that I had never thought of this before, but was a repressed thing from my subconscious that I cannot be held responsible for, much like dreaming of murdering someone): I had a vision while I was about to go to sleep one night while in the middle of my healing of fire, women burning and being hung and raped. Although I had never imagined the possibility in my mind that I would ever do such an act, this symbolized by resentment towards women (namely my mother, but all women in general who I had built up resentment for). This scared the living crap out of me, and there were other horrifying things I was faced with but had to understand about myself. It is possible that you will be faced with even more horrifying truths about yourself, Zoonic. I am just glad that I healed when I did, because I don't know if you have ever watched American Psycho, but when subconscious urges get too strong they can no longer be controlled, although most narcissists including my old self would never, ever do something like that, we are simply not messed up enough.

As to feeling like a subhuman in a world of average ignorant NT's, the idea that you are a subhuman is in fact a subconscious inferiority complex. You are, in fact, a full human, powerful and in control of every aspect of his life, and are not inferior to anyone you have ever felt inferior to in your life at any time. Some people may look down on you for some reason, maybe because of your personality or social differences, but you are only inferior if you believe yourself to be inferior. You don't have to be a part of their world if you don't want to be. There are nice people out there who will treat you like an equal if you are in turn able to treat them like an equal, something you currently cannot do, aspies and NT's. You can rule your own world through intelligence and love and respect if you want to.

You must relive your life in your mind, all the way back to when you were a baby and you found out your mother didn't actually love you and you felt worthless and filled with fear that created the unfeeling void you live in now. Work through each pain that troubles you in your body. You should learn about chakras and the chakra system, restore your aura and energy fields etc.

After that you must understand and accept everything that bothers you about other people, because the things that bother you about other people are actually things that bother you about yourself, believe it or not. Have you heard of this before? There is a word for it but I forget what it is.

Btw this process caused a temporary schizophrenic psychosis in me Zoonic, so watch out for this, but don't worry too much, because you will be back better than normal once you are healed.

Zoonic,

I'm similar to you. I have most aspie traits, although they are mild. At the same time I have some traits of a sociopath too. I hate, hate, hate people. Almost all of them. I can't work for others. I can't handle being employed. So far I have financial resources to stay outside of the society. I feel a bit depressed and isolated this way, but not as bad as when I was inside it. I don't know what will happen to me if I have to reenter the society to support myself... Just a thought of being employed again feels as intense and paralyzing physical pain.

I tried the *feel the pain* method. Not sure if it did anything. Doesn't matter how much I *feel the pain*, it doesn't go away, it stays there. My pain and anger just never subside over time.

Mylostsoul,

Are you sure you are feeling the pain of your true self and not the pain of a hurt ego? Perhaps you are not making the connecting psychological revelations that are possible when you attempt to reconnect to your true self. Maybe you are not a narcissist and are already interacting with the world with your true self but have negative ideas about people because the way they have treated you in the past? You must find ways to get rid of your resentment, you know if you really wanted to bad enough you could. But you are choosing to be this way, consciously or subconsciously. You are hating on people that may have done nothing to you but look at you in a certain way, or possibly look down on you, all because of the hatred that they can easily discern lies under the surface of your social facade.
And there is always religion - a true conversion to the ways of Jesus, Buddha or even reading Nietszche and understanding it and changing your psychological perspectives to match, a slow and painful process, is possible but I'm guessing you are choosing not to be open to anything but resentment. This is not really your fault, perhaps things have happened in your life, possible in infancy that you have no way of knowing about, or perhaps you have had an especially bad life, in which a complete 360 in personality will simply never happen because of your views on life and people and yourself. Anyways I hope for the best for you, I don't want you to hate all people, even the nice ones who you may even resent for being nice for the rest of your life when it is possible to change, even if you are not open to it at this time.

This is all connected to self-image, if you can change your self-image to a more positive one it will come natural to treat people well and not automatically hate them, you only hate them because you hate yourself, and you must understand your hatred for yourself, accept it and know that you are better and more loving than it.

I guess it is possible to feel unlimited amounts of pain, but without the accompanying psychoanalysis, understanding of that pain, and commitment to change I guess you will not change.

You must be willing to burst into flames many times and be reborn from the ashes many times, each time freer and freer of resentment and hate.

I guess it is possible just to be an aspie who hates NT's simply because of the way they are and hates society because of how corrupt it is but I would imagine this as being very rare, and a choice made rather than an incredible hatred causing large amounts of pain.

It is likely connected to some sort of infancy trauma, mylostsoul, perhaps your mother was extremely controlling and domineering? I need more info to help you...

Altruism is a great quality. It's not easy I'm sure, but what a breath of fresh air that kind of attitude is. I strive to be as altruistic as possible in the future, to those I feel have earnt my trust enough.

Hi chawieman, I sent you a private message.