Social Skills Training for Adults

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And thanks to that epic misinterpretation, I editted it out. thanks for clarifying that... really wish I had that little filter/editor before hand...




It seems to be flipped in the opposite direction now... kids are being taught how to be responsible but social skills are just thrown to the wind. Or, in the case with kids with formal social skill training, they are being taught some of the weirdest social rules that I'm not sure apply to anyone, anywhere at anytime.

Let me know! I look forward to it with my usual enthusiasm/terror!

I too will be terrified/excited. I seem to spend a great deal of my life with that feeling.

Am trying to figure out notes in facebook and how to do page breaks. If anyone know I would appreciate. <p></p> and <br> do not work.


Just 2 more weeks until I begin sessions again. I am fairly ambivalent about it at this point. I see so little benefit so far to this work that it is almost a drudgery. It would have been nice to be able to use it in my face to face.... Can't wait to see how I am supposed to "fix" this.

BTW: I am deadly close to 1000 posts. Do I get a prize when I hit it? Ordo I get more autistic or something?

....just wondering...

Bump....

Tomorrow is "D" day and back to the regularly scheduled sessions. I have had a LOT of things happen that I need to document. Got into a few messes (socially) and want to work on "flexibility" skills as well. I will update this tonight to outline some of the messes.

So things I need to possibly cover.

"Getting to know you" I had a blowup or two in the past weeks with having to deal with people (outside of high tech) who wanted to meet me in person with the agenda of "getting to know you" It felt like such a waste of my time and theirs.

I had another blowup in Email with a couple of the local ASD doctors. I pissed off the group's moderator. Not sure what that was all about but my coach was in the email so I am sure he will be all over that one.

There were a couple of "good" instances where I was really able to pull out the "cards" and use them to my advantage. One time was just this past weekend on a roadtrip when I had to talk to someone I had just met for a few minutes as my friend got ready to join me for lunch.

So that is what I got for this sesion. I suppose it will go pretty quickly as we will ultimately have to review stuff.. It was a nice break so looking forward to going back to it now.

On other news. Finished all three of my presentation outlines and the "fun" is beginning in earnst. I have 2 scheduled presentations in Sep and am starting a Teen ASD self-advocacy Pilot program in Oct.

My session went exceedingly well yesterday as I knew it would. We spent the first part of the session catching up and talking about my upcoming presentation. He told me he registered for the event. I thanked him for making the effort. It will actually be very nice to have him and my colleague there to back me up.

We talked about the "getting to know you" problems and he assured me that we will spend the next few weeks on scripting so that I can use this skill since I am now working with NT Doctor types (who really seem to be into this small talk thing) He said that we really only need about 1 minute of scripts and then some segue type phrases to be okay. I agreed that would be good.

The second part of the session was more dedicated to my flexibility issues and how they may be impeding my abilities to use these social skills in real life. He was surprised to hear how inflexible I can actually be. I told him how I had actually foreclosed on a house back in my 20s. I did it because the mortgage company sold my loan and that pissed me off. I learned my lesson from that but I did not generalize that lesson because just this month I paid a late fee for another bill that had changed their billing address and I did not feel like making that change (pissed me off again). Finally I confessed about the cafeteria line change. I told him that I hadn't eaten in the cafe at work for over a week now because they changed the way that we are supposed to line up for our food. He was blown away by that comment stating, "Wow, now THAT'S rigid". He asked me why I won't do it or if I knew. I told him I did not know... only that I was pissed. I mentioned that nobody told me why they changed it nor did they warn me that they were going to do it so I got mad and stormed out and haven't returned to it.

So we talked about sensory processing issues for a little while and after that he went back to this cafe thing. He asked me about the sensory processing in the cafe. I told him it was ridiculous and described all the noise and smells and people. He then asked me if it would be possible for me to try the cafe with the new lineup if I followed someone through it. I thought about that for a moment and told him I think I could. He suggested how the rigidity that I had on this subject wasn't just about me randomly being pissed off but about how making this change was really hard for me for very valid reasons. I thought on this overnight and today I left for the cafe when it first opened. There was nobody in there and so it was very peaceful. I was able to go into the line the different way. It still felt very strange but it did not send me into a stress/flight situation. And standing there with that new perspective (literal view) on how the lines worked I could see exactly why someone had made this change. We have grown people in our building and by moving this line, it avoided a collision with another line.

Dooooop!! !! Okay so MUCH to think about and write about on this subject. I am unlocking some doors now to this thing and they may be very. very important doors. (At least that is what I am thinking right now!)

I relate to "inflexibility" issues. Even if a website changes drastically, I stop visiting for a good period of time. I've had this problem in real life too, but it's been a long time and specific examples aren't coming to mind. It's always irritating and confusing, though. I feel like I'm heading for a meltdown just trying to figure out what's going on, and it gets easier to not even bother. Especially when there are a lot of people, lights, noises, etc.

I do try to work around them, but it takes a bit of work.

I don't know... the 'rigidity' thing always made perfect sense to me both for myself and with my kidling. When I was a kid it was part anxiety about a change - not knowing where I was going, doing, or why - and part 'rewriting the script'. For my kidling, it is very much about 'rewriting the script'. She has a difficult time with changes in plans or in a routine. When she was small it was 'the end of world' tantrums. Now, that she's older, and after lots and lots of scripting, it's about learning to go with the flow.

A change is an established routine changes the script you have already written for that encounter and doing so, on the fly, can be daunting. This is why prescripting situations is so important when teaching kids on the spectrum. You are placing a sort of footnote in their script for an upcoming event when warning them of possible glitches than may occur. Sometimes it is as simple as arming the kidling with alteratives to a situation beforehand - telling her where to go, who to ask, what to ask, etc...

I was a walk-away type when I was younger too. I would try and play it off cool - I don't want to wait in line, we'll do it later, it's not that important, I'd rather do something else, I changed my mind... I used it to cover for a pervasive sense of uneasiness that I never understood. One of my favorite self-help guru pieces of advice that I try to follow even to this day got me passed that - 'Feel the fear and do it anyway." I call it anxiety but it wasn't really anxiety in the dictionary sense. A change in routine was just something else that I had learned to count on in my day that I needed to relearn. Always and everything has to be learned and then relearned when it changes. While most people just flow and adapt, I need to come to an full abrupt halt and recalculate a big chunk of my day. All the extra thinking I need to do compared to everyone else who just seems to coast through these glitches on autopilot is just astronomical. Now I'm just as capable, if not more so, than most people I've met even if I am still expending more conscious thought about the most trivial seeming changes in the routine.

'Rewriting the script' also applies to social situations. The problem with social situations is that no two are the same and they are always changing. The 'script' only gets you so far before you need to ad lib. Which is exactly what your doc is talking about. My whole trick to thet 'getting to know you' thing is to zero in on something that the other person says and just prompt them on that. Most women love to talk about their kids. Professional types like to talk about their field. In your particular setting, asking them what they think about specific topics, or asking them to talk about their speciality or 'special interest' (I think all autism specialists should also have a special interest...) could save you alot of small talk headache. Using a timer on your watch or cell phone could serve to get you out of a situation if you really need it - excuse me, I need to check in, make/take this call, etc... If you are enjoying the conversation you can just ignore your little diversion. Lots of times, friends have 'a look'. A signal they give one another if they need to be rescued from a conversation. If you have one or two people you can count on at these functions, arrange that beforehand. They can come over and drag you off or something similar.

So, in conclusion - 'rigidity' isn't really rigidity as much as it is frustration/exasperation/detestment of having to do something once learned all over again. Besides telling my brain to just shut up and do it I've also had a more spiritual connection help me through the changes in life, big and small. Change is the only constant in the universe. Nothing is static, nothing is permanent. The only thing in this universe anyone can count on is change. Once I made friends with the theory of change on this level, it became much easier for me to overcome it. Unfortunately, it took the death of my mother to get me there - but I'm there. I can roll with the punches with the best of them simply because I am always planning 5,6,7 steps ahead.

This was my point in mentioning confusion and irritation with changes. I find these things confusing in addition to all the other things mentioned.

I still do not cope well with a lot of varieties of change. When I was trying to describe what I perceived as mild versions of this difficulty this was repeated back to me as a "rigid adherence to routine" but I've never felt particularly rigid in that regard. I can only wonder how she'd react to one of my more extreme (and recent) examples.

Updated software... especially when the entire layout changes! Like Word! ARGHHHHH!

As a kid I stopped drinking Coke for nearly decade when they changed the formula even though they changed it back pretty quickly. And I was seriously addicted. One of the things that screwed me up the worse was a new silverware tray for the drawer... where all the flatware had new locations and the whole thing sat different in the drawer.

Yet, in an emergency situation, like a car accident, I can handle it calmly, rationally and intelligently...

Oh yeah... Updated SW is a killer. I am always the last person in the office to update to the newest version of office. I am switching to Android phone and tablet soon and dreading it even though it is a "good" change for me. The thing is that everyone has these sorts of problems with change IMHO. That is why I did not see this as being "rigid" or "extreme rigidity" sort of thing. It is just too much bother to go through the learning curve of new things sometimes.

The reason I do not consider myself "rigid" is that I adapt and do change on the "important" things better than most NTs. Sure there is fear, but I have always just faced those fears and did the things anyway.

I lived in Germany as an exchange student at 15 years of age
Joined the Army
Travelled extensively and lived all over the US/overseas
I switch jobs regularly to keep my skills moving

People (other than the ASD specialists) say of me that I don't let the sand beneath my seat settle. They are astounded at how much movement I have. I actually served as a "change agent" in my industry helping groups to move to new processes. I am 100% about continuous improvement and movement. So when my colleague said that I was rigid it really threw me. Then she listed examples like

Needing to have the agenda for any meeting
Need to know all the attendees
Having to have everything "right" and being "right"

My Little's Mom joined in when I complained that I was being called rigid. (she agreed I was rigid)
Eating the same foods every day
Wearing the same clothing every day
Having to scope places out before you visit them
Having to have routines to pick up my son (would not let me drop him off for you)

And I am thinking.... Really? THAT is what you are calling "Rigidity" in the big picture??? But if that is what they are calling "rigidity" then it fits me like a glove and the cafe line moving like it did was a good example. I really was pissed off about that. But now that I understand WHAT it is (am aware) and understand why it happens, I think it can easily be "fixed".

I agree with the pre-scheduling and scheduling of alternative things concept for kids. THAT is what I do all the time and why I am so good at change for the "big" things. I completely map out everything I need to do with contigencies before stepping into that fear.

I've been reading your thread for awhile - I finally got to the end of it today - and I learned lots of new things I did not believe my partner that I was missing so much social information until I read about your social skills training. I really honestly thought (and told him) that he was making this stuff up because of his social anxiety. I started reading this thread two months ago and quit because I was shocked and horribly depressed, honestly. I'm undiagnosed, but ASD isn't a new thought for me because doctors started mentioning autism to my mom when I was five or six, and I was homeschooled because she didn't want me to have a diagnosis (or special ed) because she thought it would hold me back. So I've always known where my sensory issues come from, but I thought my social issues were limited to awkwardness because I didn't know how much information I was missing.
I am very thankful for the information because my symptoms have gotten unmanageable the past couple years (frequent severe meltdowns when I never had them before, losing my verbal ability, and just not functioning even on a basic level), and I don't have access to professional help, so I need to figure it out with the information I can find.
I am local to you and I'm at OHSU a lot, so I keep cracking up visualizing myself sitting at the downstairs Starbucks with a butterfly net. At least some autism experts have got to drink coffee, right? (Kidding.)

About rigidity, I'm learning how bad I am about it. If a website logs me out, it might take me a couple weeks to deal with it again. My partner leaves a tofu wrapper in the sink, I can't use the sink. Stuff like that. I may get angry or have a meltdown (or not), but at the least I have a strong aversion to things that have changed.
ETA: But my big life changes sound similar to yours. I took off for South Korea as an exchange student on a month's notice, also joined the Army (but got sent home because I didn't know I had asthma), picked up and moved to a different state (twice) with only a couple weeks of planning. Until recently I could buckle down and deal with change, and just take the time to recharge later. I guess with big changes, I expect them to be difficult so it's not a big deal, but when it's so many little daily things that make it hard to function it's overwhelming. Also, it's supposed to be difficult to do the big things - the little things are supposed to be easy. I suspect that acknowledging the difficulty and minimizing the changes will be key for me.

Yeah, software updates get me too. In some games, I find it impossible to pick up playing again after major patches - but other major patches, sometimes with more changes, are often easy for me. Weird.

Karla,

I don't think it's rigidity. I guess it looks that way on the outside, but it seems to be one of those many things that the professionals only understand through observation. When I first read a lot about autism in 2002-2003 or so, one thing I came across was this idea of autistic people being obsessed with the "sameness" of things, and being unable to adapt to change. I didn't identify with this at all, even though change can be a huge shock to me, to the point of reducing my functionality severely. But it's not like I love things staying the same all the time, or that I hate change, it's just...a visceral reaction? I don't know.

I mean at the same time I was reading about autism I had a pretty severely negative reaction to what should have been a relatively minor change in the household I was living in. What I experienced was not an "obsession with the sameness of things" but a change that caught me totally by surprise that I couldn't adapt to.

Glad to hear the thread is helping someone. I have thought about ending it for awhile now but I think people still find use in this information. If you are in the Portland area, there are three support groups that you can join for free to hang out with and talk about ASD. Roger Meyers has the Adult Aspergers group (he is aspie himself and it is a 3 hour meeting once a month). Dr. Carol Marcovich runs a group at PSU for young adults that you might join and if you look in the MEETUP website, you should find an ASAN meeting (monthly) that you can join to talk to a bunch of "like" people.. Additionally there is this group of about 6-10 who meet at Project Grow every Wed for a more causual thing. It is a very supportive environment. I am going to try to be there this Wed (probably will not get there until 7:00 ish) and can integrate you into this group if you are interested in this.

I haven't had the chance to meet this Dr. Marcovich but have communicated with her in email and she will be at my presentation next week. From what I can tell, she has a huge interest in the adult ASD population. That should get you up and running or at least give you some better options than to sit around OHSU Starbucks...

how much does he charge per hour?

Panic, I am completely insured for this sort of thing so don't really know. You can contact him and find out though. They are very responsive...

http://www.brookepsychologists.com/

Your way is more productive, especially since I don't have a butterfly net, which was a flaw in my plan
Thank you for the information on groups - that's exactly what I needed. I will probably end up going to the one you're at, but I need to consider the options first so probably not this week.

I think this thread is so helpful to people because when social information comes from NTs or ASD people with more natural social ability (I can't think of a better way to put this - it's not quite what I mean because you obviously have your own abilities and so do I), they don't give enough details because they don't understand the level of detail that is needed. My partner has told me several times that he gets tripped up because he can't yet comprehend how much I don't know. There seems to be a huge gap between the really basic social skills (sharing, saying please and thank you) and the ones that NT people use unconsciously - I suspect that when they're teaching NT children how to share (for instance), they're not teaching them what they don't know, they're teaching the children that it's expected. And then the other skills are supposed to develop naturally, so if NT people try to think about them consciously, the information becomes very awkward very fast.