Social Skills Training for Adults

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Why isn't this thread a sticky yet!

RE: “Listening With Your Eyes” and Walking and Talking.

My son can’t listen to me with his eyes while we’re sitting down at the breakfast table. But when we walk to the neighborhood Y for our morning workouts before breakfast I can naturally look and say stuff like, “Oh I love those birches the Wren’s just planted behind their garden wall. What do you think?” And “Wow, Tricks (a geriatric Labrador) is peppier today.” These are the times Mars can also hear my ideas about how to plan our days, weeks and lives. He will share his thoughts a bit, “Yeah.” “Oh.” “I don’t like that idea.” “That would be good.” But mostly he’ll take time to process and consider a new plan.

On the science side of WALKING AND TALKING: My friend in Physical Therapy Graduate School is researching the scientific literature on the benefits of rhythmic activities, like walking, on people with ASD.

In self-expression, Mars is more of a doer than a talker. His output is things like playing the piano and working out Algebra problems rather than chitchat.

Interesting that you chose to start your relationship with Michelle GW by Walking and Talking on the streets of Tacoma.

I’m agonizing now that financial stresses will be ending homeschool days soon. How to convince public-school folks Walking and Talking is the way to communicate with Mars vs. the stressful and stupid “Sit Down and Listen” thing?

I finally finished reading through the thread. Took a long time. I kept it open on my computer.

When I walked across campus at college I would say "hi" to people I knew when I passed them. The "hi," is an acknowledgment that you recognize they exist and you like them. As Louis Armstrong put it, "Sayin' 'How do ya do. They're really sayin' 'I love you."

I can get small talk. I tend to take words seriously though. After a while I realized that they are not really that interested in the weather.

But I'm not necessarily good at small talk. If I am alone with a stranger I have a hard time thinking up things to say and I might point out some interesting fact about ancient history or something.

I think this thread aught to be published in a book. Everything even the off topic discussions.

So trying to catch up just a little here. Pardon the intermission. I have been keeping up my facebook page (Karla's ASD Page) for anyone who wants the more "up-to-date" version. This may well become a book or part of a book. For now it is offered in real time as I learn it.

LOTS of stuff happening right now. The biggest of which is that Michelle Garcia Winner and Pam Crooke (the actual Social Thinking team) will be at my home tomorrow night and Saturday all day. She is going to "kick this stuff into high gear" and I am going to share with her about being autistic from my little perspective. The question, of course, is why is this so hard for me? I have been having panic attacks pretty regularly for the pat week leading up to this.

The last two weeks social skills sessions were focused on me recognizing facial expressions and talking about, thinking about other people.

Here is my post from the first week. It is actually pretty cool stuff.


GIGANTIC movement today in my social skill sessions.

My Doctor and I moved today and I believe it to be in part from the deep dives Michelle and I have been doing on this topic and from being able to relax from knowing that Social Thinking does not have to mean or be equal to Social Immersion. It just means to understand how a different culture operates. I said these words before but did not really believe it until I heard you say it.

This shift takes away any anxiety I have of changing who I am as a person. I can visit Germany and even immerse in the culture but I am still American and will always be so unless I go through GREAT effort to change my citizenship. I am not going to accidently become NT or someone that I am not because I give over to this work. (Of course the whole part that is missing from this bi-cultural curriculum is understanding the ASD culture part but I think I can help you to write that part. I think if your books had this slant/information to start I could have started from a point of willingness right away. I think...)

When I returned from Tacoma recently, I specifically attacked this concept of "Thinking with Eyes" in my session with Dr Brooke. First week I argued how stupid the concept was and why it doesn't work for me. Next week I backed him in a corner then told him how stupid the concept was. This week, he told me we were watching Wallace and Gromit. That little switch up had me excited to go into session so I wasn't mad right away as I walked in the door. But he tricked me. Instead of watching it like I normally watch TV, he paused it on the dogs face so that I could infer the dog's thoughts and then his feelings. (The dog was not so hard for me to watch, like people are, though I had to keep telling myself to watch the characters versus the stuff in the room) It took a lot of abstraction but I was able to do this work after a few times of being walked through the exercise...

One of the "cultural" pictures that I used over the past weeks that helped me do this ABSTRACTION from me to NT is to picture Homer Simpson. See him sitting at the desk with a doughnut on this desk. I am sitting next to him. I may be thinking of my current Algorithm or programming debug scenario because the doughnut has a pattern on it that computes Mathematically to that thought, but Homer... Well Homer he is just basically thinking, "mmmmm... Doughnut" when he is looking at the doughnut and as long as I keep that concept in mind when doing this work, I can make the leap from my thoughts to his. It is a HUGE frocking leap but one that is possible.

Back to the movie... Net is that Gromit was mad a lot. Dr Brooke and I took the word "mad" and broke it into levels of gradations. Went like this... Annoyed, Frustrated, Mad (angry), Enraged. We practiced using those gradations to the differing scenes. I had a chart that I tied to an emotion chart and could do this pretty well with my chart which means I have the capability to do this with sad, happy and fear too.

I was able to behave through this for 30+ minutes and then I started to shut down. I was not mad.. Just really sleepy and my ability to do it any longer completely stopped no matter how hard I tried to come back to it.

The Dr was happy with that much though as we had accomplished more this session than months of work prior.

He explained that I was so tired because I am exercising new neuron-nodes.

My "inner RSC" is giving way to better things. My mind is able to open a bit more. Hard work is hard work but all in all gotta leave this post with 1 word to sum it all up.

FeelzGoodMan

Stay tuned for more progress... Or not.

You know... several times I have been on depression medications. I have cycled through just about all of them at this point because I can't shake the side effects. The worst was Zoloft, or, as I like to call it, zombie apocolypse in a bottle. That stuff shut off my brain. It TERRIFIED ME. Essentially, I was reduced to Homer, 'mmmmmmmm... donut."

So, your analogy there terrifies me. If my experience with Zoloft is what every single day is like being NT - I DO NOT WANT IT. I have a brain - why on earth would I want to shut it off and not use it?! Now, of course, I have no clue if the 'side effect' I experienced is a good comparision to being NT but I can't help but wonder... if NT's see the world more 'simply', as your doctor put it, how sad it is that they are missing SO MUCH of the world. Sure, I can see the need to slow down and let them catch up - I actually got that statement in a job performance review once - but why on earth are they trying to 'fix' that trait? The 'cultural adaption' you are exploring with Michelle gives me hope - that NT's will someday realize that there is an entire world that they are missing. Maybe autism won't always be such a 'disability' if people, in general, can be more accepting of the differences.

Having MGW and Pam work with you so intensively reminds me of foreign language/culture immersion programs that help neurotypicals learn to appreciate and “rewire” to adapt to new ways of thinking and being. As a foreign language teacher, I have used many such tools of my trade for teaching language/culture to my teenage son with ASD. However, he has yet to have an intensive immersion due to social isolation and lack of neurotypicals who might wish to volunteer as models of Standard American English and learners of how to experience and esteem the ASD way.

My purpose in life is to help my son and others with ASD who might like to learn NT language/culture by setting up classes which adapt tried and true foreign language/culture learning theory and practice to ASD needs—and also to the NT need to understand and respect ASD peeps.

To this end I am setting up a not-for-profit org with the following mission statement:

TO DEVELOP AND IMPLEMENT GRASSROOTS, INNOVATIVE AND AFFORDABLE SOLUTIONS FOR TEENS AND ADULTS LIVING WITH AUTISM IN THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

Is there a California lawyer out there on WrongPlanet who might want to help me set up this not-for-profit corporation pro bono? If you will help, I can guarantee the Gods of ASD will reward you in this life and the next.

Ha, join my Facebook page and keep up with the "going ons" there. My cirriculum is ALL ABOUT the anthropology of ASD/NT cultures and it is EXACTLY how I am teaching my teen groups to go about it. We are not going to learn perspective taking from people who refuse to see our perspective. My stuff teaches BOTH perspectives to both cultures. ASD thinks this way and NT sees it this way sort of thing. No "right" or "wrong" just a way to navigate in each others cultures by taking each others perspective. And YES, people with ASD can see other perspectives when their own is first validated and shown to them. It is amazing results.

My facebook page is

Karla's ASD page

Jan 19, 2012 I finally discontinued services with my social skills coach as I had put pieces together to make the model that will empower me to achieve social skills goals that I desire. Today it is with much happiness that I get to publish my understanding of how to proceed with my personal goal from a “social skills” perspective. In doing this, I will attempt to diagram where I failed or misun...derstood things in the past and hopefully others will find value in this. (Either in using this for their own model or for understanding where your kids are potentially disconnecting)

Cost of my year-long Experiement:

Over 6K US dollars
Hundreds of hours of therapy 1:1 or 2:1
Significantly increased anxiety

Please use and spread this model so that all this effort does not go to waste.


http://asdculture.wikispaces.com/Advocating+Socially

But people are idiots Karla

Seriously though, how does one actually go about dealing the the internal anger and emotional churn when one is disconnected from ones feelings. I wouldn't necessarily recognise the trigger until after it was too late. There is often a such considerable gap that I have trouble linking cause and effect so that there isn't the opportunity to inhibit.

I so appreciate your writing about this in such honest detail, kfisherx. I haven't read all the pages of this post thread yet, but I am really loving your clear and detailed record and analysis of events.

This may have already been mentioned, but a key element for people (NT's and everyone else, I would think), is the "Am I okay or not okay?" question that we keep (subliminally for the most part) asking ourselves, and the answer keeps changing depending on what has just happened and what we are thinking about, or thinking. This question is kind of implied but not expressed in normal, light conversation.

I have so much more I would like to say about small talk and light conversation (an very complex (in one way) and simple (in another way) ritual, as I'm sure you know), but here is a silly picture of what we imply and infer but do not express, and how important the "Am I okay or not okay?" question is in our daily lives, and conversation:

The class

It's like we try to simplify things into an I'm okay / I'm not okay answer. Imagine you go to a class (or do anything) to learn maths (or anything).

Teacher: 1 + 1 = 2
Student: (thinking) I didn't know that before so I'm not okay.
Teacher: I reapeat: 1 + 1 = 2
Student: (thinking) I already know that. So I'm okay, but the teacher is not okay for repeating herself.
Teacher: 2 + 2 = 4
Student: Are you saying I'm not okay?
Teacher: No, I'm saying that 2 + 2 = 4.
Student: So I *am* okay?
Teacher: No, I'm not saying that!
Student: So I'm *not* okay?
Teacher: I didn't say that!
Student: But you didn't say I was okay, either.
Teacher: That's because it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about! I'm saying that 2 + 2 = 4!
Student: Why should I learn any of this stuff if it has nothing to do with whether I am okay or not okay?
Teacher: Well, actually, it does. If you don't do this maths course, you are not okay.
Student: Well, why didn't you tell me that before?
Teacher: Sorry, that was implied.
Student: Clearly.
Teacher: We prefer not to talk about this subject openly. It's kind of taboo. We just imply it and infer it.
Student: I see.
Teacher: Also, if you fail this maths course, you are not okay.
Student: Oh? That's very interesting.
Teacher: So you have to both take this course and pass it, if you want to be okay.
Student: Really? Well, I'm very interested in this course now, because it will decide who I am -- whether or not I am okay!
Teacher: Exactly. So remember, the content of this course is meaningless, per se. The important thing is that you pass it, because then you will be okay.

And you will continue to be okay as long as you succeed at everything else you try. If you ever fail, then at that time you are not okay. But if you remind yourself that you succeeded at enough other things, then you may consider yourself to be okay. As long as you keep reminding yourself of the things you have done well in, you will be okay. When you remind yourself of the other things, those things you have done badly in, then at that time you will not be okay.

Also, when you talk with your friends, or in anything else you do, the only real thing that matters is if you are okay or not okay. But because of all the complicated dynamics involved, it keeps things quite interesting. You have to always be on your guard. If you slip up, you will not be okay until you do something good again and keep thinking about that. It's all about ego survival, and so it's a great and serious game. We all play it to some extent, it seems.

(Most people have this constant binary 'house' mind (you could say 'conscious mind' if by that you do *not* mean 'that part of the mind that is conscious) question going on, which is, "Am I okay?" This is a key irrelevant (in a certain sense I could explain later, if asked) distraction of the ego.)

...I hope this was not too silly or obscure for most of the readers.

PS... If you are a reader who is finding my above post hard to understand or see the relevancy of, bear in mind that it would probably be a bit challenging for most NT's too (I think).

Have a great day! (This previous sentence is my way of expressing my desire for your general wellbeing, especially for today, for you as a reader, whoever you are. (I guess you already know that?))

Karla, I've been looking at your (interesting and helpful) website, and on your 'advocating socially' page (for other readers: I'm not allowed to post the link at this stage, but Karla posted it several posts earlier) you say, regarding following the NT model, that: "I think I made some marked improvements, actually, by following this model, though the cost of these improvements was very, very high."

I'm interested to understand what you mean by saying "the cost of these improvements was very, very high", do you mean the cost was mostly in terms of stress and emotional strain?

I'm just curious. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the NT model. I'm just curious here what the "very, very high" costs were.


Thanks!