What would a 'cure' do, anyway?

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Please note that it does not say "failure to have peer relationships appropriate to developmental level".
It says "failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level", which means that you can't "grow out of it", your past is also included.


Spontaneous
Impulsive, unpremeditated.
Contradiction. As soon as you have to remind yourself to do it, you're not spontaneous. This also goes for when it has become automatic, you do it because it's something you should do.


I disagree, mainly because if you're blind and someone asks you "Can you see that?" he can either say as it is, "no" or lie and say "yes". No matter how many times you say that you can see someting doesn't actually make you see it. Same thing with emotions, the fact that you say you care etc doesn't mean that you do.

Last edited by Silvervarg on 11 Aug 2009, 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

I want the cure for flat feet syndrome.

A lobotomy would just about do it. Sure, there's those nasty side-effects but it'd cure you of your brain function! I don't believe there *IS* a cure, short of genetic and neural recoding which will basically turn you into another person entirely, effectively killing you and/or your brain functions.

Also, number 4 is a load of crap. That falls under the 'you have no emotions you silly humanoid robot' category of discriminatory thought. Just because it's different from what's considered normal doesn't mean it does not exist. The wording of it like that is a broad term that says that you NEVER have any emotions and never show them. To anyone. Ever. In any way. Logic would dictate that it's not a very probable reality. Unlikely, yes. In the ways considered normal, doubtful. Never? Hardly.

Should number 4 be intended as a less broad term, then the wording is too imprecise to indicate that meaning.

Must I remind you that someone only has to fit two of criteria A to have Aspergers? Therefore, if one of them can be altered - which can happen - it is possible for someone to be 'cured'.

Ah, a falsifiable hypothesis: if I can find one example of someone who has grown out of it, your argument is falsified. As it is... am I allowed to present myself?

Are you sure that's how the criteria are applied, or are you assuming that's how they are applied? I don't know; I'm honestly just asking for clarification. It sounds like you are reading into a detail that isn't there, but then again, maybe you know how these criteria are usually applied.


By your definition, every single person who is NT would also fit this criteria.


Again, I think a lot of people who are NT often say they care when they do not. They know simply when to show reciprocity; it doesn't mean that they always feel reciprocity.

In my case, I haven't grown out of it and I question whether adapting is always possible. What if you can't simply "adapt" and if you could would it be a big deal in the first place? People with friends tend to adapt and know how to keep them regardless of being on the spectrum. Is anyone born knowing how to make friends and be popular?
The question becomes if one could simply adapt would there really be an issue?

The special interest, paying attention, organizational ability and the stimming are the things that changed with me, not the social aspects (although I still hyperfocus when driving. I still have hyperfocus/special interest just not about the same subject as much)

It may not always be possible. I think the point is that it is sometimes possible, at least to the point of it not adversely affecting the quality of one's life. And it's not exclusively about adapting one's own personality to fit the world. It's also about creating one's own world to better fit one's personality. Things like career choice, employer, activities that we choose... these things shape our world. If we cater to our strengths, we have a much greater chance of adaptation success.


I think that's the point that Magneto was trying to make in this thread. If there is no issue, you could argue that you no longer have a clinically diagnosable condition. Hence, you are no longer have autism/AS (assuming that you use the definition of autism being a "developmental disorder" and not a type of brain "wiring").

As far as I can tell, I will always have the ability to hyperfocus and work on my special interests. I have almost unconsciously adapted and shaped my life around these strengths. Then again, that's not something that only autistic folk should be doing; everyone should be catering to their strengths. It just might be a bit harder for autistic folk to apply those strengths to life.

From what I can tell this is the difference between those with AS and those without. People with AS can and choose to hyperfocus on a special interest while those without are more interested in other people and what they are doing. It's kind of like other people are the special interests of those without AS. Then again, people hyperfocus all the time and become professionals. It becomes a question of how does one tell and if you can't tell what does it matter?
I can think of an example right off the top of my head, gossip about other people. I have always had very little patience for it. Even when I was vaguely interested in it, it was only for a minute or so while others around me seemed consumed in it. My big thing has always been complaining about where I live and I can spend hours doing that but gossiping about others has never been that important to me. It is a huge thing with most people tho and they are intensely interested in sitting around endlessly discussing the lives of others. That's something I have never been able to tune into. What is so interesting about the lives of others?
Instead I would rather think about why people do what they do or think what they think. I am more interested in motivations and figuring out ulterior motives.

The diagnostic criterias disagree with you. It's possible to hyperfocus and not have Aspergers.

It is possible. The difference between AS and those without it is their social lives. What happens to one socially is the most defining feature of AS. It is not understanding how to interact socially.

Or it has taken significantly longer than most for us to learn how to interact socially. That and we probably learned how to do it differently.

I would say that I still have some social "issues," but they are minor enough that I can usually work around them. That said, I know my limitations. I keep my world in a shape I know I can handle in ways which are reasonable. So I won't be hanging out at night clubs trying to meet people anytime soon.

So here's a question. Once we know our limitations and know how to act socially (regardless of whether we choose to do so), does that no longer make us autistic?

People who adapt by some means I would call "mildly affected" but there are others who aren't as accepted by other people and have problems getting jobs and being accepted by others because of this although someone here or there could be accepting but there are problems in their relationships with others that mimmicking politeness cannot negotiate.


That sounds like adherence to routines, in a way, and that you don't like surprises or unpredictable social situations. This is where the social awkwardness creeps in...


Perhaps not if we get overloaded and our autistic traits reemerge.

No, but it make much more sense to me. I'm a selflearned expert on writing contracts and terms, so I have some experience in reading every word and it's underlying meaning. But then again, I might be completly wrong since I don't know the people who wrote it. Because of the word "develop" and the fact that it has no time limit what so ever makes me suspect that.


Not at all, I know alot of people who do something and then basicly just runs to the closest person avaible and tell them all about whatever they did. That's spontaneous.


You think.

I totally agree. This is part of what made me decide that I think people with Down's Syndrome are NT despite a neurology arguably different from everybody who doesn't have Downs Syndrome. In my daughter's special ed class I would see them showing everybody (including my daughter) their favorite toys. Smiling and grabbing a friend's hand when they were excited. Those are such NT things to do. NT toddlers (and I'm including Downs Syndrome kids) do this utterly spontaneously. Nobody teaches them to do it. In fact, most adults tend to weary of it since it's so constant and spontaneous and they have to get the toddler to STOP spontaneously showing them things and sharing interests if they are ever to get the garage painted. My (autistic) daughter did eventually learn after much prompting to show other kids what toy she was carrying. But it was never spontaneous even after she learned by rote that it's the sociable thing to do. Meanwhile, every NT toddler just DOES this. Nobody teaches them. Same with the sharing of achievements and interests. An NT toddler will tell every adult within earshot that they just accomplished something. Nobody teaches them this. Nor does anybody teach them to share their interests. They just assume that anyone and everyone is interested in their pebble collection. I didn't learn of my daughter's accomplishments unless I happened to see her do them or saw evidence she'd done something new. She just never told me or anyone.

All in all, I think that part of growing out of NT toddlerhood and preschoolerhood is learning when to STOP spontaneously sharing all these things with everyone in earshot. They do this 100% spontaneously by pure force of wiring and the learning they do is not how to do it until it becomes automatic but rather how to STOP doing it unless it is appropriate.

I agree with you CockneyRebel---I don't want my personality changed either. And I do not want to begin acting like what the world thinks people should act like. I am happy with who I am. Hey, I don't have to worry about making my friends mad---I have no real friends. And as for the neighbors, hmmm...I speak to them about once a month. I am happy with my AS. Oh, and by the way, I no longer go to therapy.