The New DSM

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even thought i suspect you read my original post on the groups and hit reply without reading any of my further posts which addressed what you are saying, i shall answer you anyway. but i suggest you do that, then you will know that the things i have said are not my personal opinion, i do not care to even get into it, but i was asked. i stated observations from 3 very specific groups that i spend time with. i assume your daughter is not in one of those groups so my post had nothing to do with her. i certainly didn't draw any conclusions about anyone.

and yes i intentionally did not talk about LFAs because they don't seem to offer any sort of emotional consistency. some of them love coming to group, some of them don't. some of them love hugs, some of them smack you if you get too close, some of them care about other people some don't. i have no observations from the groups which give me insights into the inner workings of LFAs, it seems they are not even interested in an LFA group.

Asperger's is just HFA/MFA without a sustainable speech delay. I am diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, but had I started speaking just a couple months later then i did my diagnosis would be Autistic Disorder. HFA and AS are indistinguishable in adults.

I think AS should have its own spectrum as well, though I do not mind that it may be lumped into the Autism Spectrum Disorder category I mean whatever happens I am sure the "Professionals" know what they are doing, it seems to me that mnay people on here hate doctors cause they can't diagnose them, but are gonna love them now because they will lump them into Autism? That doesn't really make sense.. well I guess it does.. it seems like they only like them when they dos moething that they want them to do.

Though I do have a question, because many people tell me I clearly stand out from someone who is considered AS, I do not nkow how or care to know how. Regardless I will probably not fit the HFA part of Autism then? I talked to my psychiatrist about this, and while I am moderate-high functioning the chances are people may consider me more moderate than high functioning if this happens and i dont really know.

I mean really, I dont like changes in certain things and I probably will refuse to actually recollect everything has been lumped just as I have refused to call the Mall in my area the Village because clearly the Mall does not look like a village.

VERY untrue. but i can see why that is a popular opinion. the differences between them are more internal than external.

I have read that autistics tend to have an overabundance of "white matter", the mass of axons connecting brain cells, and that these connections tend to be more local. I have also read that autistics have far less pruning of connections than NTs in late fetal development and in adolescence (Schizophrenics, on the other hand, have too much pruning in adolescence), which is why autistics are often born with larger than average heads.

When Einstein, who as we all know is thought to have been HFA/AS, died his brain was autopsied and turns out that his Sylvian Fissures, the big creases on the sides of the brain separating the temporal lobes from the frontal lobes, were greatly reduced. Such reduction would impact the way language is used in cognition (the language areas are all around the left Sylvian Fissure).

I am going by the opinion of experts knowegable on the subject and on the experiences of other autistics. The distinction between HFA and AS is arbitrary. I know several people (adults) with AS and several with HFA, you cannot tell which ones are AS and which ones are HFA without asking.

Wow, this is a load of nonsense. Several of the HFA people I know get upset over social rejection, and I have a AS co-worker who could not give a damn about what others think.

i completely agree with you. like i said, i think it's more internal than external, by that i meant you can not tell by looking at them or even talking to them. by internal differences i mean thought process, emotion processes. i think both groups reach the same destination but they take different paths. i wasn't trying to argue with you really, just give another point of view, which as i understand it, is the whole point of a discussion. i am also going of my experiences with experts and many many people on the spectrum, but i am not claiming facts anywhere, just....well, talking!

This is a very good point. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 15, I'm still affected by the internalized negative self image I developed in childhood.

do people here not read and just blindly post? i have addressed this 3 or 4 times now.

what i wrote is not nonsense, how can it be? it is a clear observation! i have been VERY CLEAR and i have stated it OVER and OVER...actually, how about i just quote myself for you.

first in my original post on the subject:




then the first time i explained my post:



the second time:



the third time:



so, supreme genius, please read just a little further before you post. if for no other reason than to give yourself a little context.

Your specialist is an ignorant idiot.

Like what? Aside from your personal observations?

see i think no disorder needs its own dsm, because ive met ppl with mfa or even lfa who has intense interests, extreme anxiety, pretty high iq, can do a lot, but they cant speak makes them appear extremely lf. In fact ive met a couple ppl lately whom appear so lf but inside are so hf and so intellegent. Now i found that with some aspies who yet appear so hf, but inside their stuck within their own world, or their own interests which inside makes them lf, but since on the outside their not stimmin 24/7, and talk either really well or not have many problems talking, their deemed as hf, thats not always the case. Its hard to say who fits in which catergory, u got kids who dont speak until their 8, considered lf, then all of a sudden around 14 are considered hf, with a very high iq, and no self help problems, where do u put an individual like that? what about individuals u start out very hf, one I know that lives at where i volunteer, he was considered very hf, smart, very verbal, walked, but had a huge siezure, now cant walk, talk, feed himself, and all he does is stim alllll day long, where would you classify a kid like that? its soo hard to put ppl in one label, that is really a big reason the new dsm will be alittle better, but also im finding kids who are alittle bit shy, may flap when excited, who have tantrums who are automatically labelled ASD, i dont think thats right either. So both ways it can be confusing. The difference between hfa and aspies are so small, like i noticed a lot of hfa have self help problems, language delays which also affects them into adulthood, usually their iq is just average, can be kids who started out low functionin then ending up high functioning, while aspies usually have no self help problems, usually no language delays, and their iq can range from average to way above average. But yet again you can meet individuals who dont fit that or any criteria at all and yet may seem profoundly autistic or seem mildly autistic, then their stuck with the label pddnos, and then who knows maybe their get seperate help then soembody with aspergers or just autism, maybe their be automatically pushed aside when it coems time to group homes, instead put the person with autism in a group home instead cuz they have autism not some pddnos, which a lot of ppl think pddnos is automatically mild, which isnt the case either.

Its soo hard when each individual affected by autism one way or another is sooooo different the only similiarities are some of the traits, such as impairment in social and impairment in communication someway or some form or another. We need to make ppl think autism isnt all low functioning, let ppl know there are a lot of hf cases out there and maybe his new dsm will do that, wherever i go idk if its the pppl i meet idk, but when my bf says shes autistic, ive heard a couple say, they may not speak or seem to understand but their extremely smart, and very aware, i was like wow whered u learn ur facts lol, but heard a couple ppl say that, which i found so nice and great that ppl are thinkin like that. we need to let this world know, not just autistics other disorders such as retts or down syndrome or cerebral palsy, ive met a couple now whom dazzle me by how intellegent they are inside but since on the outside their appearance doesnt always show that, their pushed aside and i think that is stupid, honestly i dont think there is such thing as mental retardation, honestly think that ppl label and assume by what you see, but their is so much more then meets the eye. so after my long ramble here i want to say that maybe this dsm will help and change things for the good, maybe not, we def gotta wait and see, but as i finish typin this, im feeling that it might be a good thing but thats jus how i feel. sorry for the book i yet wrote again!

Last edited by Age1600 on 10 Nov 2009, 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

unfortunately i can only offer my observations from my experience with people on the spectrum (as i keep saying over and over and over and over...), which is very extensive, but i highly doubt you will care. you give me a vibe that says you are wanting to try and debunk my opinion by citing popular facts and comparing them to my complete lack of documentation, because of that, i do not wish to enter into discussion too heavily with you, and you clearly don't care about my observations or experiences or any insight that could be gained. perhaps you would if what i had observed was favorable to your cause (whatever that may be), but i am guessing it is not.

i hold my experiences with people on the spectrum far higher than anything anyone has read, especially on the internet which holds as much rubbish as it does truth (probably more rubbish). my eyes see what they see, there is nothing that can sway that. i have heard things, i can not pretend i have not heard them, and due to that i can not pretend for your benefit that i have beliefs different to the ones i hold. i know what i know, that's all that matters. you do not need to believe me.

(apologies for the hostile nature of this post [i re-read it], i am getting a little sick and tired of having to defend my personal experiences, or apologise for telling people about them (which i only did when asked to). it seems like people are wanting to refute what i have experienced. i have no idea why, but i think it may be that it doesn't fit with what they want. it is very frustrating. imagine if you had toast for breakfast and everyone was trying to tell you that you didn't, after the 5th or so time, you'd be getting annoyed.)

Great post, Age!

I don't think people are saying you haven't seen what you've seen, but are just challenging your interpretation of that information.

Ie 'the AS group was one way, and the HFA group another, therefore they have innate internal, emotional differences.' Others have just pointed out valid alternate explanations for that difference, or challenged the interpretation (maybe a bit harshly). Also, others have offered differing personal observations of HFA's/AS/etc people they've seen. I think it's only your interpretations that are being questioned.

And you keep describing what you're doing as "offering observations," but then make statements like, "VERY untrue. but i can see why that is a popular opinion. the differences between them are more internal than external." --That's interpreting (external behavior).