Are highly intellectual aspies different than other aspies?

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I think having the gifted definition laid out in tables and concise explanation like in kfisherx' links helps me accept it more than I would otherwise. It's hard to argue with a table when you have to say "Yes, that's me" to everything on the list.

I think part of my problem is how I see gifted is used in our public school these days--which is where I work, underperfoming for my abilities as always. "Gifted" seems to be use as a patronizing way to tell the smart kids they're smart without telling the not-so-smart kids that they're aren't as smart as the smart kids. And honestly, in the schools where I work, being gifted just means you're up to speed for your grade, not surpassed your level or able to surpass your level. It's just a way to send the kids who don't need as much remedial help out of the classroom for a hour or so each day so you can work with the kids who need more help. In this context, it seems like a vanity label, pretty meaningless.

I value IQ as a measure of very specific, narrow forms of intelligence that can be measured that way--verbal, logical-mathematical, spatial--but not as intelligence comprehensively overall. I don't think all types of intelligence are so easily quantifiable. I may have an IQ score in the top 2%, but I'm am developmentally behind in the interpersonal intelligence areas, without a doubt. Despite being an Aspie, I am not so bad in the intrapersonal intelligence areas however, so I guess that must be thanks to be "gifted." Ugh, that still makes me cringe a little.

Of course they can. See the articles I posted. Think of Vernon Smith, Bill Gates, Einstein, etc. Or let's talk full on autistic and mention Temple Grandin. The point is that you can be both ASD and highly intelligent.


@ Verdandi... It isn't about a good or bad thing so much as it helps me (personally) to understand some things about myself. It is no different than accepting the "ASD" label 9 weeks ago. If not for the "gifted" label following the ASD label a LOT of things would not have made sense to me and I would still be confused. Knowing these things about me, helps me to focus on things that make sense in the future. And YES, it does make a big difference. Understanding that I need more visual aids to learn and that I am highly capable of learning more, I can now have more confidence to achieve even more in this life. Heck... I've been slacking until now.

Last edited by kfisherx on 31 Dec 2010, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

http://web.mac.com/kstanovich/iWeb/Site ... oning.html

My favorite cognitive scientist on intelligence and/versus reasoning... Or why smart people do dumb things.

If you only have time for one the first link (PDF file) is the best for this discussion. If you are like me, you will be addicted and read everything he has to say. Very thought provoking stuff as are the thoughts of his critics.

I feel similarly. I did well in school and college (though I hated college, I managed to get through it with decent grades) but I too haven't been able to support myself or feel like I have that much of an education (I chose to study literature because frankly it was easy -- compared to science, for instance). I don't have any superlative intelligence, only somewhat above average intelligence, and even so I find it hard to focus on something to study it thoroughly, so I haven't gotten much use out of being sort of smart.

What's frustrating is that if I didn't have AS (as well as chronic fatigue and depression) I would be smart enough to do well at a demanding profession, but that's out of the question for me because of my conditions. And if I had greater talent or intelligence I would be able to do well at something even with these obstacles (I thought about being a writer, for instance) but I'm not quite smart enough or talented enough.

I think that the deficits of AS can be offset by special talents or abilities, because people are willing to overlook whatever quirks, social awkwardness, or need for special accommodations one may have if one has something really substantive or special to offer.

The only questions I got right are those involving numbers (And I don't count the one with cards), hmmm... I guess my mind is more comfortable with abstract things like that.

I am sorry if it sounded like I was suggesting everyone should feel the same. I have a bit of a complicated history/relationship with the gifted label that, while I feel it is accurate, I also feel has left me with more pain than anything. The impact on me at home and in school was that I couldn't do the schoolwork, but I was constantly pushed into harder classes under the belief that I was bored and not, say, having other difficulties as well. It's not that the harder work was beyond my abilities, but the basic problems - that I couldn't focus on doing the work - were never acknowledged or addressed. I was supposed to be smart and gifted, and since I didn't behave accordingly I was clearly a bad person, lazy, stupid, and so on.

I don't hate it, and I love how quickly I can learn things, and I would love to take advantage of that since learning about just what was holding me back, but I still have this ambivalence.

I'm glad you posted the links, too. They're very informative and helpful.

Agreed

It is more than high IQ.

The key to highly sucessful aspies i think, is high IQ AND lack of executive function disorder.

Also, the lower IQ autistics with good executive functions seem to be able to develop interesting savant abilities in specific narrow areas. They may not be able to become millionaire inventors, but they are able to focus and stay on task in order to become accomplished other areas like music and art.

Exactly. It's my AD/HD that has held me back academically. The ASD traits make work more difficult, but far more suitable careers would be available to me in the first place if the AD/HD hadn't screwed up my education.

Is an "X" capable of being intellectual...

I wonder if you're referring to one or other of the 'Aspie personality types'. I can think of several different ways in which ASDers whose high intelligence is readily apparent are typically portrayed in the media. There's the 'square', slightly neurotic type, tending to prefer where possible an approach towards analysis of emotive matters that is not or appears not to be 'polluted' with ugly emotions like horror or self-righteousness except for when just used for comic effect (I am one of these people and I find we tend to avoid tabloids, sensationalism and pointless 'have your say'/'here's how a bunch of anonymous people said they felt about it' sections when it comes to the news), riddled with paranoid or OCD-type fears and precautions, whose endearing vulnerability more easily overrides any irritating quality (e.g. Adrian Monk), and there's the assertive, opinionated type who is or can be mistaken for being genuinely unconcerned about the effects of their words on other people (e.g. Sheldon Cooper). There's also the 'robot' that I can't think of examples of right now.

I don't know to what extent those portrayals and descriptions realistically reflect the proportion of intelligent ASDers who have those personalities. David Mitchell (<-link) is a comedian who appears to fit the first category perfectly, but I've not seen evidence that he meets the criteria for any PDD, or would be eligible for a NOS diagnosis, so he could be an NT and still have that personality type. I initially suspected him of displaying the non-clinical end of the Broader Autism Phenotype, that maybe he has a few autistic neurological traits but not enough to cause the official symptoms of it, but that could be because of stereotypes that will turn out to be incorrect - maybe pedantic, self-restrained, articulate people are just as likely to be NT as autistic.

10 times out of 10 I'd rather hang out with anyone on the spectrum than an NT. I've had nonverbal buddies who understand my aspie ramblings better than some wealth-obsessed NT, lying to get what they want. Call me prejudiced, but I've been screwed over too many times not being able to understand what is actually happening around me. That being said, very few people understand me; NT, AS, or otherwise. I can't help being different, and that is why I try my best to celebrate everyone's differences. I think Einstein said it best that it is good to treat everyone the same, from the servant to the king (I paraphrase, obviously... for any quotation nerds).

And yes, I do see myself as being different, but from everyone. I've never even met another Aspie like me, and I've met my fair share, having been homeless and such.

What I will say is that I wish more highly verbal Aspies were out. Like, the entertainers and the famous ones and such. It would make it easier for our families to understand that "Autism without a cognitive or language delay" is a real thing. Or in many cases here, cognitive and language acceleration. It is this difference that makes it so difficult for family to see and accept us...

I don't know, never met any outside my family. I wouldn't call this very healthy, but essentially, life as a kid and adolescent (and young adult) seemed like pretending to be normal and/or to enjoy NT activities, whether something that was required of me (such as school and/or college) or something that I liked doing (music, back then) and then going back home and dissecting everything and everybody's behavior with my mother and/or brother in an extremely rational and intellectual fashion, often speaking in psychiatric/psychologic/medical jargon.

In other words, I only deal with people by understanding their pathologies. Not cool.

Oye vay, if you are able to maintain a high power career, why are you going to groups of people that function below you as you put it? You said yourself that you have your act together.

Gifted people with autism don't necessarily fit in better. We can still have sensory issues and serious social impairment.

Like I said, if you're so together than you are not seriously impaired. You're a smart person perhaps highly gifted. Ad such you are not as social.

I am a smart Reader & Righter who has done lots of dumb things.

Mostly in the 50’s , 60’s and 70’s.
School was easy for me except when I decided to skip too many chemistry classes in H. S.

Please define different.

I didn’t read the OP

This thread definitely has turned into an "I'm smart too" affair.

Than you have asinine statements that Aspies are smarter than HFA.

Perhaps the Aspies who feel that way should get their own forum. They sound no different than all self aggrandizing NT's I work with all day.