The Truth (?) behind TOM and lack of empathy...

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That's an interesting article. I see the analogy.

See, I'm not getting that inference from that quote. Unless you're assuming that by "affective" they mean inferring through purely emotional processing, and THAT is "faking it."

If so, I would agree that is faking it, but not so sure the researchers would.

I mean, how can anyone process someone else's feelings emotionally? I don't believe anyone can feel anyone else's emotions. We feel our own. Or maybe that's just an Aspie block, thinking that if I can't do it, nobody else can. From my perspective, the idea that anyone can do that sounds pretty sci-fi to me (Alana Troy?). In some ways it sounds like we're being told that NT's possess some kind of "sixth sense" that we don't have.

I don't think that''s exactly what the researchers were trying to say though, but I do think that's kind of how it's interpreted by us sometimes.

I'm fast leaning toward this conclusion now:

NT's process other people's emotional feelings subconsciously. (Oh my god! I think I just stumbled onto something HUGE!)

Could it not be this?

Maybe a lot of what it takes to do this processing doesn't, on the face of it, look LOGICAL! Could it be that NT's simply aren't as aware of their cognitive processing as we are? Could it be that all that processing, in their own minds, just goes ignored, and accepted, without ever really "seeing" it or thinking about it?

Could it be that WE are so conscious of it all, and some of that processing makes so little sense to us at first glance, that we shy away from it, because none of it makes any sense to us?

If so, is that why, once we are taught (or figure out for ourselves) the logic of processing it all, and CAN make sense of it, which takes a lot longer, we don't have as much of a problem accepting it? Could that explain the delays?

Consider this:

What has happened to NT understanding of their own subconscious processing from studying Autistics? Think about how much they now understand about THEMSELVES, that they've actually learned from studying people who are not "NT."

Would any of them have ever even thought about any of it if it weren't for the fact that they noticed a bunch of people who DIDN'T do what they did subconsciously?

I think there is something to be said here about the fact that non NT's do often spend a great deal of time in deep thought and conscious methodical thought processing,

One thing I like that's relevant to this discussion is this video:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/152278/so ... tion_task/

The point of it is to watch it and describe the action using as many social elements as come to mind.

Autistic people (regardless of diagnosis) tend to use approximately 1/4 of the social elements as NTs, at least on average. Some use more, some use less, and some use practically none.

I presume that was unintentional.

Ok one last deep cognitive problem to get around here- what was the fundemental factor that prevented us from using the same processing skills as NTs

1. Was it we lacked the basic emotional response so we were left out of the learning loop- ie we lacked the fundemental components of emapthy ? Ie we are devoid of it- we had no potential for empathy to arise?

Or

2, We couldn't use our processing to link the meaing of others actions to our potential emapthy.
All the other interactions and conveyed emotions we couldn't make sense of, it all got scrambled
and we never learned the unconscious automatic flow Nts take forgranted, and all the socialanxiety and other bull we hav eto live with is rooted at this processing stage. If so this is not the same as lacking in empathy

Solution fix processor -no fix - delinate to next nerarest group of cognitive functions.

Does empathy exist in states of potentiality?-



Going to pub now with kids .

Oddly enough, it was intentional. It went through some edits and came out looking unintentional. Like so:

"That's an interesting article. I understand the analogy." (but this whole thread has talked about how NTs also lack ToM when attempting to empathize with AS people and since I'm NT, "understand" seems like the wrong word. Do I understand ...really? Better change the word)

edit

"That was an interesting article. I see the analogy. "(Oh man that was a really lame pun. I'd better un-pun it so it's less lame.)

edit


"That's an interesting article. I see the analogy"


Some processing is subconscious. Some is belaboredly, overthinkingly conscious.

I HATE tests like that. I did a few of them for my evaluation, and hated every second of it.

That one? It's a fight. Dumb ass destroys his own home after it's done. That's all I've got. Thank god my Psychologist isn't here waiting for more answers. She'd just sit there staring blankly until, for the forth or FIFTH time, I said, "That's it. That's all I've got."

Did I mention I hate those things?

I'm glad I was clueless about Autism most of my life. I'm sure it would have made things more difficult for me; I always thought I would get things the way others did, sooner or later. And I did feel close to what I felt was normal, from my own personal analytical analysis, in my early forties; it was a satisfying feeling but I never really worried about getting there, I just thought I would as I saw my parents looking comfortable in their own skin. It would have been hard to hear at a young age, that I would always be much different than most people, but it was probably pretty clear to others that I would be.

I don't really mind them much - I find it interesting that other people can produce these complex, sometimes convoluted stories, complete with personalities and motivations, and all I get is "There was a fight and then some brownian motion, and I don't know what was up with that bit at the end."

What made you hate things like this?

I HATE tests like that. I did a few of them for my evaluation, and hated every second of it.

That one? It's a fight. Dumb ass destroys his own home after it's done. That's all I've got. Thank god my Psychologist isn't here waiting for more answers. She'd just sit there staring blankly until, for the forth or FIFTH time, I said, "That's it. That's all I've got."

Did I mention I hate those things?

Because I don't "see" much in them, or the point. Frankly, in a sense they cause me to feel as though others might think I'm stupid because I can't see what they feel ought to be obvious. To me, the only thing that looks obvious is that they are just pictures, or videos of "stuff" that has no relevance to anything important to me.

It's worse when I've got somebody across the room from me waiting for me to make things up (which is essentially what i have to do), and I can only think of one or two things to say, yet they just sit there silently waiting for more when I've already said once "That's all I've got." When it takes three of four times telling them it's all I've got before they move on, that's just awkward.

I hate awkward.

Yeah, that is awkward. It's frustrating that someone would push you like that.

I do see the point of things like this: It highlights a concrete difference that clarifies issues for me, and I have a better understanding of how I think vs. how NTs tend to think. It doesn't make me feel stupid and whether others may think I am stupid is rather irrelevant to me (not criticizing your reaction, just how I think). I mean, before last winter, the idea that my social perceptions differed from NTs' had not even crossed my mind, and that was even being aware that I had consciously learned and adopted social behaviors over time.

I suppose if I did bother to do it, most of what I'd come up with wouldn't be what the pro's are looking for anyway, which might actually be revealing, but in my mind it wouldn't be any more revealing than just saying what I said, and leaving it at that. I already know whatever else I could think of would be way off from what they're looking for, so I guess that's why they feel so pointless to me.