Asperger's Dad from hell

Post Reply New Topic

and then there are also people who don't understand aspergers and autism who come on here pretending psychopathic traits and narcissism are in fact aspergers when they aren't.

The bad traits associated with aspergers are not the same as psychopaths or narcissists. Maybe psychopaths are hoping to confuse people into believing aspergers and psychopaths are two of the same because psychopaths want to use aspergers as an excuse when going to trial or whenever caught in lies.

For all the psychopaths and narcissists who love to throw out the victim card, they perceive us with autism or aspergers as some coddled group whom the public gives sympathy towards so they wish to throw out that card for this so called sympathy we receive which is a blatant lie.

If you have autism or aspergers you aren't treated with sympathy. Get it through your heads sociopaths.

I find your post insulting. Who are you to undiagnose the self-diagnosed? Most of those who have been unable to get a formal DX due to circumstances beyond their control (myself included). I went through significant tests 10 years ago, & came away with no formal DX at all. My shrink said there was something "off" about me, but she couldn't tell me more. I was left frustrated & confused because there was nothing I could do with the DX. How do you get help for being "off?" I could not work on stuff without knowing the background behind it. And my anger only grew & intensified because of it. Most of us don't have unlimited income to travel to the experts, or it's due to the fact that we have lived far beyond our childhood or teenaged days. Now I have a different healthcare system, & I am being retested at the age of 49. So I do hope to get my formal DX. It's been a long time coming!

I grew up in an abusive home with a psycho mom & an abusive dad (who also most likely has AS). I was dragged around from shrink to shrink also without a formal DX during my childhood & teenaged years (they even had me committed to a mental hospital during a time). There just wasn't anything available in those days as far as a name for what ailed me. I was DXd as "normal." If that were true, I would not have had the issues of chronic severe stomach & intestinal issues (on-going since I was a toddler), learning difficulties with math & other subjects (got worse as I got older & math problems more complex), depression, social anxiety even as a child (I hated being around my peers & teachers as well as my parents). Since you are so high & mighty...you tell me, what else could it be besides AS? I had exactly zero friends from 7-12 years old. I was being sexually abused from 9-12 years old. I had 1 friend from 12-15, when she moved far away. After that, I had exactly 2 more friends during my life (both short lived-1 in my 20s, & 1 in my late 30s).

Don't sell the self-DXd so short. There's a reason we are here. We have no other place to go, because the majority of us do recognize there is something different about ourselves...it's not just our imaginations at work.

As far as the OP...it's quite possible that the ex-hubby involved has a co-morbid disorder. Also growing up in an abusive home does put a different slant on the issues. I have developed a ferocious temper due to growing up in similar circumstances, though it takes being pushed to the limit for it to appear (luckily). I was abused physically, verbally, & emotionally at home, & bullied at school & also in the neighborhoods I resided in. I have rarely intentionally physically hurt another person (unless I was bullied/provoked into it & did it only so I'd be left alone), though I have been known to say the wrong thing (perpetual in my case) or even get angry enough to put holes in a wall (due to my ex-husband's abusive behavior). Is it right for anyone to get that angry? Of course not! And I am working out my issues regarding it. Can I admit I make mistakes & do the wrong thing? Absolutely! That's a far cry from my mother who claimed she was perfect, & never did anything wrong (except adopting me). I have been left with the knowledge that the abuse I suffered from my parents was basically my own doing. My parents both absolved themselves from responsibility or guilt even though I was the child & they were the supposed adults. It really makes a mess of a child to be told that he/she caused the abuse, & the parent(s) did nothing wrong...not even saying they're sorry years later for the terrible things done. It takes a huge toll on a human being mentally & emotionally, especially one who is just a child at the time it occurs.

that's not aspergers,

i have AS, and narcissism. and even i can tell one from the other, i also have schizod personality disorder.

what you are describing doesn't sound like AS to me, aspies do awful things, breaking things and lashing out from the meltdowns that we get sometimes for no real reason.

our ability to focus on one thing for hours, days, or years, is a double edged sword, because it also makes us narrow minded about that particular thing, but it allows us to achieve what others cannot.

aspies do have some bad qualities, some more then others, and some less then others.

and we have good qualities, some more then others, and some less then others.

this is just from my experience of dealing with it myself, and my observation of others, in this forum and in real life.

i'm not saying this is fact just what i know from having the illness.

but yeah i'd be a bit concerned about the kid.

yeah you say you have AS on an nt related thing and you get no sympathy even if you really do have the illness, because people that abuse it make the rest of us that are legit look bad.

on here you say you have AS and you are met with understanding most times.

They really don't. I believe they can both exist in the same person, but nothing about autistic spectrum disorders implies any kind of narcissistic personality - which is manipulative, contemptuous of others, dismissive of anyone who is not important or influential enough to be of value to them, and a lack of concern for the harm they cause.



Do you ever post anything that is not dismissive, contemptuous, insulting, or condescending? I admit, mostly I find you ignorable, but it seems to me that you're highly critical of behavior that you perceive as similar to yours, but you don't seem to either be aware of or care about the fact that your behavior comes across as somewhat repugnant.

Given your routinely expressed contempt for posters here, I do wonder why you continue to return.

As if these conditions were as unrelated as chicken pox, excessive flatulence, and a toothache.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you really don't understand the nature of your condition at all. And that that, too, is an aspect of your condition.

Keep in mind that people with conditions like your often suffer from anosognosia. What better people to sucker into a rose-colored interpretation of their repugnant behaviors than ones who are ill-equipped to see the reality of their condition in the first place? Yeah, I can't see how narcissism could possibly come into play here.



Well, for starters, this is a rather vague statement. If you mean that not every autistic person could reasonably be described as narcissistic, sure, I can agree with that, but it hardly matters. Are diabetes and neuropathy simply not related because one can occur without the other? That might not be a perfect comparison, but you get my point.

Part of the problem here is that, just like Asperger's, "narcissism", NPD, etc. are associated with an archetypical image that only bears the most fleeting resemblance to the way each condition manifests in actual individuals (if anything, the descriptions of personality disorders are a bit more realistic, as they're designated for and may therefore contain "bad" behaviors, while the opposite is true for autism/Asperger's). Asperger's is simply "logical, moral introvert who wouldn't hurt a fly" and narcissism is something like "superficially charming, calculating, self-obsessed social predator". I'm sorry, but these paradigms that we've acclimated ourselves to are idealistic to the extreme. A brief visit to, say, this website and a forum on NPD will show that the reality of the people these conditions are associated with involves a huge deal of overlap. Narcissists are generally lazy men with questionable hygiene, good intelligence, not enough friends, asocial/antisocial tendencies, and a compelling need to be the best at everything they do. People with Asperger's are generally...you guessed it!...lazy men with questionable hygiene, good intelligence, not enough friends, asocial/antisocial tendencies, and a compelling need to be the best at everything they do. I'm sorry, replace "laziness" with "autistic inertia".

Am I saying that all people with Asperger's qualify for a diagnosis of NPD? No.

Am I saying that they're the same thing? No, although the terms "autism" and "narcissism"--or at least the concepts they are meant to represent--are obviously very similar (roughly, the compromising of the relationship between "self" and "everything else").

Am I saying that there aren't people who fit the Asperger's/NPD archetypes? No. There certainly are.

But none of those have anything to do with reality, in which the lines drawn between these types of diagnoses are ultimately arbitrary, in that most people who qualify for them are partway between the archetypes, embodying aspects of both diagnoses. So, of course, rather than recognizing the true nature of these conditions--that they are merely "trends" of behavior that tend to occur in some combination when a person's brain is messed up--we instead have this ridiculous DSM which presents a bunch of discrete "diseases" such that people take them to be as unrelated as, well, chicken pox, excessive flatulence, and a toothache. And we end up with people like xemnasfan who say absurd things like:

that's not aspergers,

i have AS, and narcissism. and even i can tell one from the other, i also have schizod personality disorder.

Here's a tip. Save time and energy and just tell people your brain is a mess.

By the way, even though the word "narcissism" relates directly to NPD, narcissism itself is a core feature of all "cluster B" personality disorders. It's a core feature in the other clusters as well, but because the profiles that make up those clusters tend to represent people who are more likely to be victims than victimize, we tend to call the same type of dynamic "autism". So I'm not just arguing for a relationship between Asperger's and NPD, but Asperger's and all personality disorders. Again, I'm not saying that autism and narcissism are synonymous--just that they describe the same type of thing. I would use the word "spectrum" if it weren't for the fact that people tend to misunderstand that word, too, and I'm not eager to add confusion where there is already too much.



Yes.



I am perfectly aware of the fact that my behavior is often objectionable. Also, not being aware and not caring are radically different things. Why would my behaving objectionably preclude me from pointing out objectionable behavior in others? You seem all caught up in this vague, yet severe notion of "rules" that should follow "hypocrisy" which, if widely adopted, would prevent any human being from ever criticizing anything. Sorry, you just don't seem like a very clear thinker.



Well, for starters, like just about everyone else here, my brain is a mess. Its condition is such that I find the pursuit and promotion of truth, even among people who are essentially programmed to turn a blind eye to it, irresistible.

you can believe what you want, i know what i go through and you don't. and yes i don't know much about my own illness, but i am extremely selfish, i don't take blame for almost anything i do, and i am anti social to the point where i normaly avoid others like the plague. which is AS, narcissism, and schizod symptoms.

also you said your brain is also messed up so how can you judge me at all.

one last thing this topic is about a mother asking for help about how to keep her child safe, this isn't a "let's put down every aspie on this forum topic"

i agree with Verdandi, i probably don't have narcissism, but i am selfish to the core, but i like to have a label to explain the things i do, it puts my mind at ease and helps me keep my mind straight.

and i was offically DXed by a docter in a hospital at 15 or 17 since i've been asking questions to help understand my tendances in order to deal with them better, but i'd rather ask questions here then from docters, because these people have gone through what i go through.

but since you brought up hypocrisy and "my brain is a mess" yet you put down everyone here who also have something wrong with them, it makes you seem like the hypocrite here.

Poke wrote:

I have spent years around narcissists, & got a good, close up look at their behavior. I think you missed something really important in your quote above. They never make mistakes. When or if they do make a mistake, it's always someone else who is to blame for it. You'll never ever get an apology. They also tend to bully anyone they consider weak. I have never known either my mother or my ex-boss to be lazy with questionable hygiene. My mom was always impeccably dressed, & expected the same from me because I was a reflection of her. My ex-boss also was always well-groomed & well-dressed. In fact, he had multiple affairs while I worked for him...not too surprised since most women thought he was super hot. They often fawned all over him. Lucky for me, he did not have that affect on me...in fact, I found him annoying & his behavior disgusting.

Where did you get your info above? The definition of a narcissist is someone who thinks of themselves as better than anyone else & above everyone else. They have huge egos. Yeah, they are perfectionists too....you did get that right. But maybe you haven't actually experienced what it's like to spend time around someone who truly has NPD. These are people who gloat over themselves, & expect others to do the same. Most of them will have excellent taste in clothes so they can promote their exceptional image. They also don't care who they hurt or how they do it. They are all about feeding their immense ego which has an insatiable appetite. Who could put up with that for long? They are likely not to have many long term relationships because they are intolerable.

People with Aspergers may be perfectionists to try to fit in better. However, if what they are doing revolves around a special interest, because of their intense focus, they do excel. But they are more likely to be under dressed, under performers (due to sensory issues), bullied (hence the asocial/anti-social tendencies), might have a temper due to meltdowns/frustrations, etc. I don't think people with AS are necessarily lazy, just that they have had more than their fair share of hard knocks in life which makes them more shy than the average person. It makes them less motivated. But I don't believe for a moment they are that lazy.

So maybe there's a couple of things that could be similar about AS & NPD, but for the most part, the 2 are very different issues. Lucky you, if you have not actually experienced what it is like to be around someone with NPD. I have not been so fortunate. I know quite a bit about them, & how destructive their behavior really is.

Tomboy4good. The narcissists I've met always look good. Must appear to be perfect. Behind closed doors are abusive. Cannot like their own child if they cannot view their child as an extension of themselves and are embarrassed by children that are different. They will only pretend to like the child that is different if it gives them a good image. Up talk themselves, brag about their life and themselves meanwhile degrading someone else to make themselves look better than that person. If that fails and their attention for that day is ruined then they go into attack mode against the other person who stole their show even though not on purpose. These are the narcissistic women I've met. They don't do the same form of bragging the men do though. They use more subtle tactics.

The narcissistic men I've met realllly talk up themselves. One guy was talking about how his girlfriend loves him because he is the best man in the world and how lucky she is to have met him. He's not vindictive though. Most of the narcissistic women I've met were cruel.

The men are easier to detect than the women.

Hahaha, sounds like you knew my mom! That was her to a tee. She was considered so nice by outsiders, but she was never nice to me. Others' remarks often left me feeling confused & angry when I was growing up. I just couldn't understand what was going on & why she seemed so different to those who never really knew her. Too bad I didn't know about narcissism as a child. I would have had a better chance of fighting back. You're right, her tactics were very subtle. It was a form a brainwashing. Creepy, when I look back on some of the stuff that went on at home.

I never liked my boss, & it took me until after I resigned to figure out that he was a narcissist too. They are just repulsive to me...maybe more so because my mother was so abusive, & left her indelible mark on my psyche. I can never quite figure out why I don't like someone until after the fact. I need to learn to recognize them far sooner.

Tomboy

so my selfish qualities must be mild, because i don't care how i look, but my selfishness most involves things i have, and caring about anyone emtionally but myself i look out for how my emotional state is and no one elses, but i don't gloat about myself unless i'm joking.

most with AS are hardworkers in their interests but i'm generally lazy unless i'm playing a video game.

thanks you gave me a good example of the illness and i know i don't have it now, but i'm not sure what to call my selfishness type, i need a label for it. selective selfishness? of course schizod basicly has symptoms that i just desrcibed, i just have the personality part not the illness though.

i usually can tell who i'm going to hate just by looking at them for 10 seconds in real life. or having a simple chat on a forum, maybe it's a good thing maybe it's not, i don't know.

but an example: i've never liked my bros gf from day 1 that i met [saw] her, and i still don't like her, we hardly talk at all i just a bad feeling from her. course her and my bro fight like an old couple on a weekly bases. i still say he deserves better then her, my bro is a nice guy, and she seems like a witch, she wants him to do what she wants to do, but will not do what he wants to do. like my bro kinda runs our family business, alot of times he is the only person up there, and he is normaly swamped with work. so most of the time he can't afford to just drop what he's doing to do what she wants to do. i don't think she gets that our business is a legit business yet.

I have some former acquaintances who learned of my BPD diagnosis and decided that my statement that I do not have it was probably wrong because "defense mechanisms" would prevent me from identifying such behavior and try to keep others from connecting this behavior to me. This is, of course, why when I got the diagnosis, I actually asked several family members and friends if they were aware of anything I did that fit the BPD criteria, and the nearly unanimous answer was "No."

I also know of several people (and know a few of them) who have been diagnosed with personality disorders, who seem to be aware that the diagnosis is accurate and seem to be aware of the behaviors they engage in that fit the behavior. I am a bit skeptical of telling people that they aren't able to perceive their own behavior sufficiently to understand what they're doing.

Not that you're wrong - my father and sister both display fairly strong narcissistic personalities and neither of them is self-aware enough to admit that they cause any drama. Instead, it's always someone else's fault, and when something makes them angry, even if no one is at fault, someone must be held responsible, blamed, and punished. tomboy4good's description of narcissistic behavior matches both my sister and father very closely.



I get your point, but the difference is that one of neuropathy's well-known etiologies is diabetes, while NPD is not considered a common comorbid for Asperger's Syndrome, nor does either have any established link to the others. Dr. Sam Vaknin - author of Malignant Self-Love - wrote this to distinguish the two:

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal72.html



I've read extensive descriptions of most personality disorders (something I researched after my misdiagnosis with one).

I think your descriptions of both are extremely oversimplified at both ends of the scale (I do not know that "logical, moral introvert who wouldn't hurt a fly" for example is how most autistic people are portrayed).

Executive dysfunction is often misunderstood as "laziness." I think we had that conversation before. ADHD, which is defined almost entirely as executive dysfunction, is described as one of the most debilitating conditions among those commonly diagnosed - moreso than depression, anxiety, etc. Which is strange, given that it is perceived as much more benign. It may not be a problem for you, but it is quite real.

My description of my perceptions of a narcissistic personality were actually based on my sister.



I believe I said "narcissistic personality" specifically and not narcissism in general. Personality disorders describe personality types taken to extremes - and of course they can cross over and overlap significantly, meaning that a "pure" narcissist or borderline or whatever is pretty unlikely, nor does it mean that having any condition precludes having certain personality types, although



I'll keep an eye out.



Which is why I stated them as two separate things.



I don't recall saying that your behavior would preclude you from pointing out objectionable behavior in others? I've been around enough people who are more than willing to complain about everyone else while engaging in the same behavior thatthey're complaining about. I just find that behavior objectionable.

This doesn't mean I hold to behavioral standards that would preclude any human being from ever criticizing anything. Rather, I am more interested in people being personally accountable for their behavior.



Everyone's here for better understanding, and is dealing with constant crap from other people who refuse to understand what it is like to have a cognitive disability that interferes with so many things, and are constantly misjudged and misinterpreted. Yes, sometimes people may idealize things, but I doubt it's out of denial so much as frustration. Such as this thread, where behavior that is not typically associated with autistic spectrum disorders is described as clearly autistic behavior when it is not. No one is saying that autistic people are incapable of bad behavior, but that behavior is not always an autistic thing.

Yesterday - the same day you posted your accusatory comments - there was another thread posted by an NT girl whose stepsister has made her life a living hell. No one denied that her behavior was problematic and several provided advice for dealing with it. At least one of Hale Bopp's videos involves complaints about certain kinds of behavior from Aspies. I don't know, I'm just not seeing this entirely rose-colored glasses thing you're talking about.

He looks more like a jerk than an Aspie. Poor kid didn't diserve that!

xemnasfan wrote:

Not necessarily. I never claimed that people with Aspergers can't be selfish. My dad probably has AS (exhibits many of the classic symptoms). He's one of the most selfish people I've met (aside from my mom). He has not been tested (83 years old now), I am just going by my own observations & what I've learned. It's quite possible that he has some other underlying co-morbid disorder. But I am not sure which one(s). He's also put himself, me & my mom's lives at risk. Didn't care, didn't bother him at all. He seems to have a low opinion of life in general...not sure where it came from as I never got to know any of his family. While my mom was ill, he'd go out & do the stuff he wanted while her health was declining. In fact it was one of his compulsions that probably affected her health towards the end. He will never admit fault though. I have confronted him about it.

Funny though, the closer he gets to the grave, the more he fights it. He used to tell me (when I was growing up-lots of funerals back then) that no one gets out of this world alive. I've thrown that phrase back at him, & he finds it repulsive now. LOL I guess it hits a little to close to home for him now. I know that might sound cruel, but with all the cruelties that I was exposed to growing up, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the choices he's made. It's not that I don't care about him...just that I've had to learn to protect myself from his actions, words, & behaviors.

So yeah people with Aspergers can be self-centered. Motivation may be different though. I have not questioned my dad on his behavior...even though I have observed it both firsthand, & by accounts of others. Usually if I call him out on something, he'll just refuse to answer by using silence to protect himself. One thing I do know....he did manipulate my mom into marrying him, & used extreme measures to get her to go along. It was not only a horrible tactic (used guilt & sympathy), but cruel as well. Had someone ever used a ploy such as he did, I'd be contacting the nearest psych ward, & having them committed. After that, I'd be well on my way to anywhere but around that person.

Somehow my parents managed to tolerate each other for 50+ years. Sick & twisted as their relationship was, it did last a long time...not sure how they pulled it off. I know of no other couples quite like them. They'd make an interesting case study, but since mom has since passed on, I would only be able to get my dad's POV. And I really doubt he'd confess to everything anyway. Like I said, he cannot admit fault.

Well there's little you can do to change your ex. Your ex would also benefit from a diagnosis & counseling himself. However, he has to come to that conclusion on his own because if you suggest it, he'll fight you tooth & nail. In the meantime, the best thing you can do for your son is get him into counseling. Sometimes just talking with someone who can be objective will go a long way to smooth things over. He may be only 6 right now, but you can bet his dad is not going to get better at controlling his temper. Kids need to hear that things will be ok.