Adult outcomes in the population

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I counted that 10 of the 26 people(38.5%) (not including me) who made discussion comments in response to my questions specified in their comment or clearly indicating in their profiles "other autism spectrum disorder."

Thanks for the clarification. I forgot to count me.. That's interesting; among the adults over the age of 25 gaining a diagnosis later in life, many have adapted to the point and/or had a delay in language over the age of 25 that are diagnosed with PDD NOS because they fit in neither of the categories of Asperger's or Autistic Disorder per DSMIV-TR standards.

The potential that you are going to find anyone on this site reporting even border line intellectual disability is extremely low. Here is a link to an informal poll done on IQ with over 400 responses on this site, and the results if anywhere close to correct or representative of the site, paint a picture of a demographic of a bell curve of IQ in what would be seen among PHD's and MD's; but not even remotely close to representative of the full autism spectrum, or any subgroup in that spectrum. 53% reporting IQ's over 130 in a group of 406. 4% reporting IQ's below 110.

And of course, there is bias for people completing an informal poll for those that have high IQ's, but the same potential exists for those that have good outcomes in life, when participation is voluntary.

What perhaps is more interesting in the informal poll and the results in the discussion, is that extremely high IQ is not predictive of high outcomes in life, at least not when associated with the autism spectrum.

From anecdotal accounts that story line is repeated over and over on this site. One can understand why one might see a 40%+ good outcome in these results, as compared to the clinical longitudinal study I provided more reflective of the CDC Autism Spectrum demographic, where 96% of individuals were receiving a disability pension at age 22. The CDC demographic of 62% of individuals assessed with IQ's below 85, which is actually higher than what was reported in the study I provided, is compared to the informal statistic of 53% reporting IQ's over 130 in the poll here. Much different assessed parts of that bell curve and the spectrum. But, additional anecdotal evidence that the participation on this site, is not close to reflective of the fuller autism spectrum.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/posts115376-start75.html

I checked the link out. Wow! Wrongplanet sure is dominated by a bunch of people with ASDs (majority of which have above average IQs). But what do you expect given that this site is known for being dominated by individuals with Asperger's or any other form of a high-functioning autism spectrum disorder. Plus, only 400+ something people participated in the poll whereas there are currently over 70000 members registered on WrongPlanet.

Now, here's a little summary about the stats based on the responses posted in this thread so far:

Out of the 27 people who have posted on this thread in response to my questions so far, 11.1% had a very good outcome, 25.9% had a good outcome, 48.1% had a fair outcome, and the remaining 14.9% had a restricted outcome.

Out of the 6 people who have posted on this thread in response to my questions claiming that they were living independently as defined by my OP, all of them had a good outcome or better.

Out of the 16 people who have posted on this thread in response to my questions claiming to having success in their career path (in higher education/currently employed), 62.5% of them had a good outcome or better. However, out of the 9 people who claimed to be currently employed, only 3 of them were not underemployed.

Out of the 17 people who have posted on this thread in response to my questions claiming to have some form of meaningful interpersonal relationship (at least 2 friends/steady relationship), 58.8% of them had a good outcome or better.

That doesn't look bad at all so far.

Hopefully, more people will respond to the questions I posted in my OP to get a better idea of the true outlook on the ASD adult population.

Hello, I am currently 21 and was diagnosed with a mild form of Asperger’s Syndrome at the age of 11, although my elementary school teachers were describing behavioral issues that fit the diagnosis when I was as young as 7 and my parents knew I was different long before that. Things are currently going well for me. By the standards above, I would be fair but personally feel that I am doing better than this.

I cannot say what my current IQ score would be if I were to be tested now, my last one which I took in 2009, just before graduating high school, was 114, although I have never really had much faith in these tests and don’t know how well they actually work in judging ones intelligence.
I can’t recall having taken an Autism Spectrum Quotient Test. Where can I take one?

I am in the perfect college to pursue my dream to become an animal conservationist; I achieved an Associate’s Degree in Math and Science after two and a half years, have been working at my Bachelor’s Degree in my field of interest for a year and expect to have it within the next year and a half. This semester, I was able to achieve mostly B’s, with the exception of one C+ (genetics lab was a challenge, especially on top of two other lab courses), although I honestly suspect that the classroom is not the most productive environment for me and my favorite courses and classes are those that let me go out in the field to gather data.

Although my social skills are still not up to par with NT standards, I have been improving in leaps and bounds since I left high school. I have been able to keep friendly relationships with people outside of my family indefinitely, as long as that relationship is not entirely by phone and computer. I still call my family members every day when I’m away and return home between semesters. Although I am interested in pursuing a romantic relationship in the future, I don’t think I am quite ready to take that step yet.

Here is a link to that Autism Spectrum Quotient Test: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html




That's interesting to hear. But I am guessing that these people outside your family that you have maintained friendly relationships with are those you wouldn't exactly call friends, right? If you are actually friends with the people you have maintained friendly relationships with in person, then you would be classified as having a Good outcome in terms of being in higher education and having at least 2 friends. That's understandable that you don't want to worry about getting into a serious romantic relationship right now (it seems like you have more important things going on in your life). But it is nice that you are thinking about going for one.

I wouldn't rely on an online forum to show an accurate picture.

Thanks for laying out the statistics; they are thought provoking.

It's an urban myth that people diagnosed with high functioning autism and/or Asperger's syndrome as a whole have higher median IQ's than the rest of the general population, at from the peer reviewed published studies to date, that have provided those measures. It's not an urban myth that overall they have close to zero levels of intellectual disability as opposed to the rest of the general population, but that is a result of the diagnostic criteria requirements.

Based on peer reviewed published studies to date one would expect that a demographic actually representative of Asperger's syndrome would report an IQ median of around 100 instead of 130, if it was comprised entirely of a demographic representative of those individuals, where the results could be validated.

Michelle Dawson's recent research showed individuals diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome had significantly lower median IQ percentile measures than control groups, both with standard measures of intelligence and raven matrices tests of intelligence. But, the control groups median IQ percentiles were significantly higher than the median IQ percentiles of the general population.

Interestingly, the Autistic Disorder group scored much lower on standard tests of intelligence than control groups, but the adults studied actually edged out the control groups in the raven matrices testing.

That's an interesting study, if you haven't seen it, linked here:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0025372

And here is a longitudinal study of 70 individuals with Asperger's syndrome, where there were 6% of individuals reported with IQ's of 130+, and 80% reported with IQ's under 115, with median IQ scores of close to what would be seen in the general population, for the group. The 27% of those with measured good adult outcomes had an average of 107.8 IQ on standard measures of IQ. All the outcomes progressing from very poor to good were correlated with the IQ scores.

http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10 ... 007-0364-6

Judging from these peer reviewed published studies, it appears that the IQ's reported on this site are skewed high compared to what is reported from the general Asperger's population, in studies that have been done, and very high from what was reported in the discussion and in the informal poll done here that was linked. I think the close to 40% overall good outcome is probably at least what one would expect from what was reported in the IQ scores in the discussion, in comparison to the study above with a median IQ close to what is seen in the general population.

One final thought is that a college education among some with an asperger's diagnosis is not necessarily going to be reflective of what happens after college in the world of real employment. The results of your poll discussion partially reflect that in the "underemployment" responses. Of course that also applies to the general population, but the difficulties in social interaction can make more of a difference in the real world of employment than in the academic arena, unless one can find a niche, that suits their academic strengths, instead of social challenges.

Have achieved the following 3 things: [A] Living independently (e.g. not living with your parents/parent and not dependent on anyone for financial support)
[B] In higher education/currently employed
[C] Having at least 2 friends/steady romantic relationship.

I consider myself to be living independently. I guess I'm really not-- I am more or less financially dependent on my husband. But so are NT women who choose to be homekeepers, and no one would say they're not living on their own. Although I have a bachelor's degree, I don't think I could survive in a professional career. I have four friends (even if one of them is a slumming NT special ed aide bitch-- her life sucks more than mine, so who's got the problem??), 4 kids, am working on my 15th year in the same romantic relationship, and might be working on rekindling a friendship with my best friend from grade school.

Pretty darn rosy, all things considered. By any standard.

[1] Most recent official IQ score-- I don't remember. Mid 140's I think.

[2] Most recent Autism Spectrum Quotient Score-- Around 40, though I really don't remember that either right now.

[3] Highest level of education achieved-- Undergrad degree

[4] Degree achieved and in what field (only applies to those who attended community college or above after high school and graduated) BA in English. Whoop.

[5] How long did it take you to achieve your highest degree? Eight years. I kept changing majors, then I dropped out, had a kid, went back part-time...

[6] If employed, are you employed up to your potential? (i.e. the job you currently have requires the highest degree you hold). No. Currently "unemployed," though I hope it's voluntary. I actually doubt I could hold a professional job, though.

[7] If living independently, at what age did you move out and start living on your own? 18. And boy oh boy, did I ever crash and burn.

[8] If you never have been in a romantic relationship, are you interested in getting into one? If something happens to this one, I'll never make that mistake again. I love him, he loves me, but AS and marriage really don't make a great combination.

[9] If you have ever been in a romantic relationship, how old were you when you first got into one? 17. My best friend and I let rumors about us being a lesbian couple convince us we ought to try it. Miserable failure. 19. Picked up the guy my cousin used and threw out. Miserable failure. 20. Dated the guy he tried to dump me on. Nightmare. 20. Pretty much got married to current spouse. Fourteen years and we haven't killed each other, though I think it's been close.

[10] Outcome Good. Pretty darn rosy, if you ask me.

[11] Age Group 25+. Thirty-four, to be exact.

[12] Diagnosis Group Diagnosed Asperger's 9/2011.

1) Most recent IQ test was in junior high, when they were sending me to child psychologists - 137
2) Most recent AQ = 39
3) Ph.D.
4) BS Geology and BS Ecology, MS Biology, PhD Biology
5) 5 1/2 years for 2 BS degrees, 3 years for MS, 6 years of PhD
6) Yes, I work as a college professor
7) 19, when I went off to college all the way across the country from where I grew up.
N/A
9) Was 18 when started dating first girlfriend in high school. Went out with a couple women in college. Met my wife through mutual friends in graduate school and been married 25 years, to an extremely tolerant and understanding woman.
10) Outcome very good, despite strains on my family relationships with my wife and kids. Why does my son have to communicate with sarcasm?
11) 53 years old
12) Diagnosed AS and C-PTSD (from 8 years of being severely bullied in grade school-high school) in 2011

[1] Most recent official IQ score: 148 but this was when I was a child.
[2] Most recent Autism Spectrum Quotient Test score: 45
[3] Highest level of education achieved: Currently attempting an Undergraduate degree, 3rd year.
[4] Degree achieved and in what field (only applies to those who attended community college or above after high school and graduated): No degree yet, Computer Science, concentration in Programming
[5] How long did it take you to achieve your highest degree? So far, 3 years, but it took me 5 years from high school to achieve the goal of attending college.
[6] If employed, are you employed up to your potential? (i.e. the job you currently have requires the highest degree you hold). n/a
[7] If living independently, at what age did you move out and start living on your own? n/a Attempted for 3 months, had a nervous breakdown.
[8] If you never have been in a romantic relationship, are you interested in getting into one? I have been in a handful of them, but I am uninterested in them.
[9] If you have ever been in a romantic relationship, how old were you when you first got into one? 19
[10] Outcome: Good
[11] Age Group: 25+
[12] Diagnosis Group: Asperger's, aged 19.

I chose "Good" and have not achieved complete independence.

To a buddhist, I'm a failure.
To a workaholic American, I'm a success.
I am not happy, and THAT makes me a failure. I need to go back to day shift...

Here are the stats so far in terms of the poll as of right now:

14% of the ASD adult population who voted in the poll had a Very Good outcome.
29% of the ASD adult population who voted in the poll had a Good outcome.
31% of the ASD adult population who voted in the poll had a Fair outcome.
The remaining 26% of the ASD adult population who voted in the poll had a Restricted outcome.

It looks like this thread is dying down a bit. So I might as well post the remaining summary of the results that haven't already been posted:

In terms of outcomes, based on the polls as of 100 votes from ASD adults, the young adult (18-24 years of age) [N=37] and full adult (25+ years of age) [N=63] groups had similar distributions of Very Good outcome (14% and 14% respectively), Good outcome (24% and 32% respectively), Fair outcome (35% and 29% respectively), and Restricted outcome (27% and 25% respectively). So basically, whether one on the ASD is a young or full adult doesn't make a difference in terms of having a Good outcome or better as defined by the OP. Also, the median outcome of the ASD adult (based on the poll results) would be a Fair outcome and the mean outcome of the ASD adult (based on the poll results) would be a Fair to Good outcome (closer to Fair than Good).

14 (or 53.8%) of the respondents to this thread who reported having had (or currently in) some form of post-high school education had a Good or better outcome whereas none of the respondents with no form of post-high school education had a Good or better outcome. So it seems like having had (or being in) some form of post-high school education increases the likelihood of having a Good outcome or better as defined by the OP.

Out of the 31 respondents in this thread, there were 26 people who reported some form of ASQ score. For those who reported their Aspie Test score (instead of the ASQ score), I converted that score into ASQ score by dividing their Aspie Test score by 4 (since the Aspie Test is based on a total of 200 points and the ASQ is based on a total of 50 points). So after doing all of those conversions, it turned out that 6 (or 60%) of the respondents who reported ASQ scores that were no greater than 36 (since that's the mean ASQ score for the AS/HFA group in the original ASQ study done by Baron-Cohen) had a Good outcome or better. Also, 5 (or 31.25%) of the respondents who reported ASQ scores that were greater than 36 had a Good outcome or better. So it seems like having an ASQ score of no greater than 36 increases the likelihood of one having a Good outcome or better as defined by the OP.

Or it could be that those who had no post highschool education don't function at a level where they could cope with it. I would think that having a post highschool education is in itself a 'tick' in the good or very good column. Is it the post highschool education that leads to a good or better outcome or is it that the people who were in college (I'm just going to call it college for simplicity) were born with, or were taught, coping skills that allowed them to make it in college in the first place?

Maybe it's this part of your post that's throwing me off, "...post-high school education increases the likelihood...". I just think that for the ASD group college is more an indication of general function level. Higher function level, higher chance of going to college, higher chance of good or very good outcome.

I think it is a little bit of both ([1] The college education that leads to a good or better outcome. [2] The people who were in college were born with/taught/self-taught coping skills that allowed them to make it in college.)



I will agree with you that college is usually more of an indication of general function. But just because one with an ASD is in college doesn't necessarily mean they're generally functioning well in it. For one, they could be doing well academically and struggling socially (or vice versa). Also, take a scenario where someone (for example, someone diagnosed with a very mild ASD when they were still under the age of 18 ) doesn't exactly go to college because they choose not to even though they seem capable of getting through college since they want to become a big actor/actress in Hollywood instead. They work their asses off to stand out in the Hollywood while working full-time/part-time to support themselves in the process. Eventually, they get recognized by a big-time movie producer and they get signed on for a major role in a highly-anticipated movie. From that point forward, after they get a giant paycheck for probably at least $5 million and get highly recognized by people for their great acting ability, they get asked to play more major roles in more highly-anticipated movies. That's just another example that college is not necessarily an indication of general functioning level.

25+ diagnosed ASD, Outcome = Good
-Living independently, steady almost-full-time job. I do have a group of friends but only 1 that I would consider "close" and have completely failed in the department of romantic relationships.

[1] 148 (this was nearly 20 years ago though)
[2] 38
[3] undergraduate degree
[4] BA in Comparative Literature
[5] Standard time - 4 year degree after normal length of high school - nearly didn't go to university but a teacher pushed me and did most of the paperwork so I gave in and went
[6] pretty much
[7] 25
[8] I am interested but anxious about the idea.
[9] I have been in 4 relationships, none lasting very long, first at age 18.
[10] Good
[11] 25+
[12] Diagnosed asperger[/quote]