Autism and Abstract Reasoning

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Part of why I started this thread, is that some people regard abstract reasoning/thinking specifically as a type of reasoning/thinking where verbal language is required, whether in thought or in speech, but verbal language in thought and speech is not necessarily required for abstract reasoning.

Non-verbal reasoning and abstract reasoning are terms that are often used interchangeably when measures of intelligence are discussed in the clinical environment.

This can be a hard concept for some that have had language as long as they can remember to grasp. The complex abstract concept of the word "abstraction" in itself can also be hard to understand for people that have difficulties understanding "abstract/figurative language", in terms of language that describe emotions and/or thought processes.

The complex abstract concept of the phrase "intellectual disability" is also a complex abstract concept of a phrase developed and determined by the culture specific to the skills that are required for survival in a culture. Along with the complex abstract concept of "human intelligence".

While Raven Matrices tests are considered one of the bests tests for "fluid intelligence" which is inclusive of abstract reasoning, pattern recognition, and problem solving, it is not considered a good measure of "crystallized intelligence", which is measured by the knowledge acquired, accumulated, and used specific to the culture one lives in. Although abilities measured in fluid intelligence can be predictive in one's potential abilities in crystallized intelligence, crystallized intelligence is better measured in the Verbal IQ portion of standard measures of intelligence, such as vocabulary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_ ... telligence

David Weschler the man behind the most often used standard measure of intelligence defines intelligence as: "The aggregate or global capacity of the individual to act purposefully, to think rationally, and to deal effectively with his environment."

http://oiko.files.wordpress.com/2011/03 ... ivity1.pdf

One of the lowest measured cultural IQ's, per western cultural developed measures of IQ, are among the San Bushmen in the Kalahari Desert measured at about 52, in the early 20th century, before their culture was heavily influenced by western influences such as alcohol.

The San Bushmen have an extremely complex verbal language of "clicks", complex social system revolving around kinship, and adapt to a very difficult continually changing environment that require skills in abstract reasoning associated specific to their environment for subsistence on a day to day basis. The problem with Weschler's test or even the Raven progressive matrices test, was that testing using a writing instrument and a 2 dimensional representation of geometrical patterns or mazes, on this thing called paper, was never part of their purpose, rationality, or ability to deal effectively with their three dimensional environment, that did not include any paper tests of a 2 dimensional representation of reality.

The idea of clicks for language is so abstract it is beyond the comprehension of most in the western world. The type of intelligence required to live naked in the desert as a nomadic hunter, is also beyond the comprehension and abilities of most in the Western world. So per Weschler's definition of intelligence most everyone in the Western World dropping in to survive in that environment would be effectively disabled in intelligence many different ways, some that western methods of IQ testing likely don't come close to measuring well.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Bushmen

Never the less, "civilized" standard measures of IQ are designed to measure a type of intelligence understood as required for the ability to function and gain subsistence in life, in the civilizations they are designed for.

The Raven Matrices test, is supposed to be designed to take verbal language and culture out of the equation in a non-verbal test to measure fluid intelligence, including abstract reasoning, problem solving, and pattern recognition, which it does appear to do well among people in modern civilizations and cultures.

But without the ability to assess crystallized intelligence that comes with some method of communication, individuals can still be assessed as intellectually disabled per those abilities considered as cultural requirements for what is described as intelligence. An even bigger problem can be when the culture dissolves into an abstract concept that is no longer commonly recognized by it's members. Without a well defined and understood shared culture, a description and measure of intelligence required to effectively adapt to the cultural environment seems like a moving target. It is probably part of why so many people with high IQ's still feel impaired in their abilities to effectively adapt to the cultural environment that exists today.

There is a big difference in "book" learning, and "hands on" learning. Those in the western world can spend anywhere from 12 to 20 years acquiring information, much of which may not be applicable to anything they do to actually gain subsistence, while the bushmen spend their entire life learning and effectively demonstrating their ability to adapt to their environment for real time subsistence, on a day to day basis, that at least earlier in the last century was never very predictable. Even where there is rarely any perceived certainty to life, they have the knowledge, skills, and abilities to do what it takes to survive as a social unit.

What is or what is not measured as intellectual disability, per measures of it can be controversial, but it is necessary to measure it in helping people adapt to what is increasingly becoming a more complex and less well defined culture. And there is not much doubt in my mind, that the culture itself is a source of disability for some types of intelligence, that western measures of intelligence do not measure well, and some abilities that are not clearly understood associated with a concept of intelligence. I suspect some in "primitive" cultures live this reality in a way that I can't possibly fully grasp with any abstract concept I can describe with language.

And even though I didn't talk until age 4, I have come to understand my type of language delay was not nearly what is described for some children on the spectrum that have difficulties with verbal language, as my mother could clearly see that I was in tune to what was generally happening in my environment, even though I didn't talk. I read before I could speak well, which is more of the hyperlexic variety of verbal delays. Those positive attributes kept both her and my doctor not too worried, that I couldn't currently talk.

Disabilities in social and emotional "intelligence", including language and non-verbal communication are accommodated quite while in our modern civilized societies. This strength in non-verbal abstract reasoning can be a valuable skill if identified and utilized. However, an inherent difficulty in the "intelligence" associated with verbal and non-verbal communication, in social interaction was not a type of intelligence that a Bushman in a nomadic tribe could have likely survived with where effective communication and social interaction was the key to survival, and the same for other social animals that live in groups.

There are individuals assessed with intellectual disability that communicate quite well socially and there are those that don't, but regardless of what one wants to assess it as, the inability to communicate socially is a serious disability. A high score on the raven matrices test can provide hope that some will eventually gain an ability to communicate whether through verbal means or some type of accommodation. It is in a way, a non-verbal communication device to communicate that potential ability, along with many other potential abilities.

It appears to be common for people to use both visual iconic representations and translations to verbal propositional representations when taking the Raven Progressive matrices tests, that have balanced verbal or performance IQ skills in standard measures of IQ. The part of Dawson's research, linked in the topic article, focused on individuals with autistic disorder, does seem to indicate that there is a potential advantage in leaning toward the use of visual iconic representation over verbal propositional representation when verbal IQ is measured substantially weaker overall than performance IQ, in standard measures of IQ. However, even with significantly lower performance scores of IQ than the control group, adult individuals with Asperger's syndrome still did much better on Raven Matrices testing per the overall standard measure of full scale intelligence measured in comparison to the individuals without a spectrum disorder.

http://mindmodeling.org/cogsci2012/pape ... er0321.pdf

It is understood that visual spatial skills are often compromised in individuals with NVLD, a learning disorder reported as overlapping in symptoms among a majority of individuals with Asperger's syndrome. Perhaps it is the visual pattern recognition aspect of the Raven Matrices test measured higher over visual spatial skills in rotating three dimensional objects that is the aspect that is more compromised in standard measures of intelligence in performance IQ among individuals with Asperger's syndrome, overall, that also gives some adults with Asperger's syndrome an advantage in taking the Raven Matrices tests of intelligence, since it doesn't measure that visual spatial skill.

This is counter-intuitive to an "extreme male brain" hypothesis of autism, as block rotation is an ability that males do often score higher than in females in general, however there are individuals like John Elder Robison diagnosed with Asperger's that obviously do extremely well on mental rotation of three dimensional objects as an accomplished mechanic.

I don't think that online communication necessarily captures that population of individuals that might be diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome well, and potentially neither does the research that people like Dawson and others are doing comprised mostly of college students diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, with these higher verbal IQ's as opposed to performance IQ, representative of non-verbal learning disorder.

The non-verbal learning disorder connection with Asperger's is very interesting, and potentially for some that may eventually be described as social communication disorder, however there is more to the difficulties associated with non-verbal learning disorder than just social communication difficulties and/or RRBI's, and it is also interesting that OCD is often present in NVLD, per what may be recognized in some as RRBI's.

It is likely that a person with OCD and NLD would score higher than average on the AQ test. Social anxiety and OCD was enough for my very empathic but well organized spouse to score a 32, without any problems with non-verbal communication, verbal communication, or social emotional reciprocity.

The AQ test does seem to measure well for traits associated with some described neurodevelopmental disorders and related conditions, but specificity for any particular disorder in the general public is weak at best, with a below 10% specificity assessment risk for ASD in the general population but close to 80% for those that are actually diagnosed with an ASD. But even that is not too bad considering the diagnostic tool used by Catherine Lord and associates from the DSM5 working group to measure DSMIV PDDNOS in the general population in her clinical sample supposedly incorrectly diagnosed 90% of those in that general population sample, which also makes for 10% specificity.

http://crackingtheenigma.blogspot.com/2 ... usion.html

Dawson's research focuses on adults with autism and history of speech delay, required for participation in their studies. Sometimes, they do a study in this group, then a follow up on an AS group without history of speech delay. So they mostly focus on an autism subgroup, the HFA one that is most likely to have perceptual strengths according to enhanced perceptual functioning model. There have been some links in literature between perceptual functioning like pitch discrimination and fluid reasoning in autistic people.

I thought it was interesting that in the research I linked from Dawson, the adult individuals with Autistic Disorder had higher full scale intelligence on average than the adult individuals with Asperger's syndrome. While the HFA individuals had higher Performance IQ, the disparity in Performance IQ and Verbal IQ was not nearly as substantial as the adults or children with Asperger's syndrome.

I wonder if some of the adults in the study classified with HFA might have been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome if the Gillberg criteria was used, considering the verbal IQ was close to the performance IQ, and the Gillberg criteria allows for a verbal delay? I suspect the answer may be yes for a substantial number of individuals clinically sub-typed with HFA or PDDNOS in the US.

But I think one can rule out that possibility in most of the children diagnosed with autistic Disorder in her study because full scale intelligence was measured in the 25 percentile range.

First of all, let me congratulate you all for the insightful, high-level discussion in this thread.

I'm also familiar with Mottron and Dawson's studies, and honestly I don't fully understand why should be a correlation between hypersensibility (or perceptual functioning) and abstract reasoning. Many people with ADHD have hypo-reactive sensorial systems and still do quite well in standard IQ tests. Btbnnyr, I'd love to read scientific literature about this if you can provide a link. Thanks in advance.

Temple Grandin talks about different ways of thinking (as far as I know she does not link IQ to abstract reasoning abilities), she says her algebra skills are poor but since she's a visual thinker, she can be good at topics such as geometry. People who tend to think in patterns are the ones who naturally excel at STEM. And then there is another group who excel at verbal concepts.

My husband, who is on the spectrum, excels at logical thinking and works as a software engineer (is considered one of the top 50 specialist in his country). But his math skills are quite average and his non verbal abilities are also affected.

There is no eggsplanation for link between perceptual functioning and fluid reasoning, not enough studies to make a firm connection or eggsplain it. Perceptual functioning is usually measured by pitch discrimination or visual search tests that depend on perceptual, non-verbal brain functions. Fluid reasoning is usually measured by non-verbal intelligence tests like raven's, and can be easily done in non-verbal ways without using language or verbal thought processes and the brain functions involved in those. So both use primarily non-verbal brain functions in a subgroup of autistic people, the hfa subgroup that Mottron and Dawson target for their studies. They are mostly studying one subgroup of autistic people, and their results may not apply to other subgroups like people with NVLD.

As for link, I don't have one, because I don't save links.

(change topic)

Autistic people with poor abstract reasoning have this kind of severe lack of generalization:
See a bunch of pictures of same object at different angles and not recognize that these are all pictures of same object
See a bunch of pictures of same class of object and not recognize that this is a class of object

From this perspective, eberrything is as it is, the end. Like how I see food sometimes. I see stuff, the end. Or how I used to perceive a greeting like "hello". I hear the sound, the end. It's hard to function independently with this kind of thinking. But autistic people with poor abstract reasoning can understand generalizations over time, as long as you teach them to make the connections using lots of eggsamples. However, they continue to have lots of problems making new generalizations not taught on purpose.

(change topic)

In my head, there are verry merry berry few verbal rules for anything, so I understand most things in a non-verbal way. I don't know if this kind of thinking can be understood by someone who thinks verbally. This kind of thinking makes communication really difficult, since thoughts are not stated to yourself in your own head, so forget about saying them in words to others. I think that this was why I communicated so little in childhood, until I learned to translate my thoughts into words. No translating, no speaking.

(change topic)
Here is a website (http://www.cambridgebrainsciences.com/) where you can play some brain games. It's free but requires registration. They have a couple of matrix reasoning tests and three under the "concentration" category that are entirely visual-perceptual.

(change topic)
As you can see with these (change topic) things, I can't tell a coherent narrative with a general point. I suck at debate. But all the little blurbs are related to each other. From an nt researcher perspective, this is probably a sign of problems in abstraction, but from my perspective, what is going on is that I am not verbally stating the non-verbal abstraction in my brain.

Here is a link to research associated with enhanced pitch discrimination among people with autistic disorder as opposed to people with asperger's syndrome that do not score as well on this ability. They link language delays with excellent pitch discrimination. And those with language delays often excel in tests like raven progressive matrices for detecting patterns, problem solving and non-verbal abstract reasoning with geometric shapes as compared to standard measures of intelligence.

http://crackingtheenigma.blogspot.com/2 ... ks-to.html

I think there is a spectrum of difficulties associated with NVLD, Aspergers, Autistic Disorder, Semantic language impairments, ADHD, psychopathy, motor skills difficulties, many of which overlap, some that don't depending on the individual. The DSM5 committee created common observed behavioral deficits that can be associated with some or all of these other labeled conditions and disorders.

Dr. Gillberg, who developed the Gillberg Criteria for Autism calls it the Autisms, in the excellent video linked below, in his description of classification:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... e-iik&NR=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_ ... g_disorder

One thing that is interesting about non-verbal learning disorder is that fine motor coordination in writing is often impaired. A keyboard provides an opportunity to overcome this difficulty. The definition above provided by wiki for NVLD sounds like almost every person I come across diagnosed with Asperger's on the internet, but I am not sure this is entirely what Hans Aspergers described in his case studies, because there are studies that show strength in the ability for mechanical aptitude in individuals diagnosed with Aspergers which requires good visual spatial skills, which is the last thing one would except among the majority of those diagnosed with Aspergers that have the symptoms of NVLD. So to me there seems to be the NVLD symptoms in some individuals with Asperger's and others with some similar symptoms with intact visual-spatial skills.

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111102/ ... 9025a.html

Geometry is an excellent measure of abstract reasoning. With a difficulty in verbal abilities it is not likely Temple Grandhin would have scored highly on standard IQ tests as a child, but she adapted very well later on. It is very likely she would score highly on Raven Matrices tests of fluid reasoning.

She explains her problems as one of not being able to access emotion in the use of language, per her difficulties with figurative abstract language. But, her abilities in verbal abstract reasoning that do not involve figurative language are excellent. All of her theories about Autism are evidence of an extremely well developed ability for verbal abstract reasoning, that appears to have come over the course of a lifetime of adaptation and neuroplasticity.

I can tell a person everything that happened in a movie I saw, if I am questioned about it, but cannot describe it in a narrative for more than a sentence long. My words in typing provide a structure for me that I can add on word by word, but the communication almost seems to be like sculpting a pattern of words with my fingers based on what I see on the screen when I type.

I think my method of letting people know I am changing topics is Google links to reference about what I am talking about. I have an extreme difficulty staying on point for more than one paragraph, as an unlimited number of associations seem to flow out of my fingers, without any structure of it in my head in advance.

I can definitely see that I communicate more rote than meaning, and am often surprised when I read my own paragraph and it makes sense to me. But that seems to be associated hyperlexia: a lot of words or a lot of reading but not a whole lot of comprehension of the big picture of what just happened.

But this tangential communication, rote more than meaning, and difficulty with reading comprehension are often clinical features associated with the spectrum.

I suspect it has something to do with emotion and language, because emotion seems to provide the glue to keep language, memory and meaning together. Which is close to what Temple Grandhin describes in her difficulties in communication.

The strong association of Alexithymia for people on the spectrum seems to potentially be related to this in an inherent way in the structure of the brain that does not seem to be well understood. Lesions in the right hemisphere are one way that NVLD is identified so there seems to be a structural association there, that my sister diagnosed with Asperger's has, but I don't have. She has extreme difficulty with math, but I've always been fascinated with numbers and words, which is also part of hyperlexia. I can do the visual patterns, but visual spatial abilities per block design and analog mechanics is difficult.

A keyboard and computer provides an infrastructure to record thoughts, read thoughts, and organize them in a way that I hope makes sense.

I've been following this thread and wanting to respond to it, but I experience some difficulty in getting my thoughts down in a linear fashion. This corresponds very well to what btbnnyr says in the above quote. Most of the time my thoughts develop in a non-verbal manner. I tend to think in interconnected concepts and associations in a three-dimensional way; I like to liken it to the way 3D molecule models look. And I can get carried away by thoughts proliferating so rapidly, that translation into linear language is near impossible. However I will try to convey some of it.

(change topic)
Thank you, aghogday, for that Katharine Beals quote on "Autism and abstract thinking ". She explains very clearly some observations I have done myself over the years of common misconceptions of the concepts of abstraction, logic and, well, concepts . This only brings home to me the importance in conversation of explaining one's choice of words accurately. I dislike talking to people who are too comfortable with their assumptions. When I say I think in concepts, I mean that as a non-verbal understanding of phenomena and relations, with regards to their function, attributes and qualities. Well, that's the best way I can explain it for now, anyway.

(change topic)
Abstract reasoning and visual perception are very very important in my way of functioning. If I lost my eyesight I would be in a very bad way indeed.

Example #1
Since I've never had much money (and probably never will, considering I'm on disability) I've had to rely heavily on self-taught DIY handiwork to make ends meet. Abstract reasoning has helped me a lot to be inventive in that area, finding solutions that cost little or no money. When you are viewing a man-made object purely in terms of functionality and qualities, instead of labeling it verbally in accordance with cultural conventions, it is so much easier to put the object to a different use than what it was made for.

Example #2
I have consciously used my visual skills to make up for some of my impairments. I have the misfortune of having hypermobility syndrome as well as poor proprioception and poor gross motor skills. To make up for this I use my eyes to guide my body around the world. I also need to constantly visualize what I'm about to do physically, because there's a significant delay in the nerve signals between my muscles and my brain, and if I don't anticipate the strain and consciously tense my muscles beforehand, my joints will receive the full impact of say, lifting a heavy object, before the relevant muscles can be bothered to respond. This way I can avoid the joint inflammations and repetitive strain injuries, I used to get all the time. This is in some way parallel to the way eye-hand coordination works in developing fine motor skills, I think. What gave me some insights, and inspired me to develop this strategy, was seeing this documentary about a man who taught himself to move again, after losing his proprioception entirely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKxyJfE831Q
http://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=The ... t_his_Body

Example #3
I use visual abstraction to read facial expressions. I didn't actually know I do this, until I tried some of the online visual recognition tests. I scored higher the more abstract the images got. I was better at recognizing inverted faces than upright ones (a percentile rank of 99 versus 80). I was better at memorizing abstract art than inanimate objects, and better at objects than faces. I have somehow subconsciously learned to make up for my lack of intuitive reading of emotions and body language, using a combination of visual abstraction and intellectual analysis of social experiences. However this process is so mentally taxing, that almost every social situation is mostly hard work for me, and leaves me exhausted for days afterwards.

Edit: Thank you btbnnyr for the (change topic) thing. I find it a useful instrument.

Last edited by unsortable on 11 Feb 2013, 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Since I had language delay and learned language in alternative way, I have severe alexithymia. Like what Temple Grandin says. There seems to be little link between language and emotions for me. I can't talk about my feelings, and I don't instinctively try to. I can't talk about social things. I understand some social things non-verbally, but I can't put them into words to communicate to others. I read a study in which autistic and typical children looked at some non-verbal theory of mind task during fmri. Typical brains activated language areas, but autistic brains did not. So on non-verbal task, typical children seemed to use verbal reasoning, but autistic children did not. I think of verbal reasoning as a layer of language that I put on only to communicate with others, now that I know how to do that. In my own mind, it's unnecessary. Sorry I don't have any links, since I never save links.

(change topic)

I think that the Asperger designation is not useful anymore, since we now know that different people with AS differ much from each other beyond the behavioral level, the groups with verbal vs. non-verbal cognitive strengths being eggsamples. Then there are people who have even abilities too.

(change topic)
No problem, unsortable. I just started using this today. It is mighty useful. My mother is always complaining about my father lacking transitions in his conversations and jumping from one topic to another. And someone else said that I lack transitions too. And people are always saying that my writing style is jumpy. I remember a thread on wp that started with someone mentioning that the idears in my posts jump around and are tangential.

(change topic)
One of the major perceptual differences between me and my father is that I have verry merry berry good pitch discrimination, and he is eggstremely tonedeaf. I had language delay, but he didn't. We are both visual thinkers.

Well, this leaves me in a strange place. Looking at the NVLD symptoms in the wiki, I must say that I can identify with some, while others is the complete opposite of how I function. Let's see:

Non-verbal communication
Yes, I have problems with this. But only regarding human beings. I communicate fairly well with animals. The trouble with humans is that communication tends to be both verbal and non-verbal at the same time, and often the two are contradictory in content. Which is highly confusing. I also have moderate alexithymia (severe in childhood).

Verbal communication

I am definitely not a conversationalist. I have sat through more awkward silences than i care to remember. I rarely initiate conversation. I do however have a strong interest in languages, but mostly in written form - I read a lot, and I'm fascinated by the visual design of letters. As a 9-year-old I insisted on learning how to read Fraktur (a blackletter script) for instance.

My preferred method of acquiring information is empiric and hands-on.

Verbal communication is mostly for the benefit of others, though I do spend a lot of time preparing scripts inside my head. I also have a strong inner voice when reading, and when writing with my right hand or typing. When writing with my left hand (ambidextrous, yes) I do not use my inner voice, or I can't do it.

Numerical and spatial awareness

I excelled at arithmetic and mathematics in school. I find doing math soothing. I am however rubbish at telling left from right, or rather at connecting the labels to the concepts, so not really a spatial problem, but a language problem.

Motor

Poor gross motor skills, yes. But I have very good fine motor skills, probably mostly due to strong visual control of my movements.

Anxiety



This describes me uncomfortably well, at least when it comes to functioning in a competitive environment, surrounded by humans. I fear punishment for failure, not failure itself. On my lonesome, I like to learn by trial and error in my own good time.

Depression

Yes, I tend to suffer from depression.

I had this vague sense that other people were carrying all of these complex paragraphs of coherent ideas in their head, and I had go on a treasure hunt to describe mine in words.

I used to watch people talk for hours in coherent paragraphs; it is beyond my imagination how they do it. But it does seem that emotions play a big role in the glue that ties it together.

My eyes stopped making tears for about eight months, and I was limited to dark rooms to deal with it, because my eyes became extremely sensitive to light. All my senses were my road map to the world but what was lacking was a central coherence of words and verbal memories.

I had to find a way to create a road map of thoughts in my head that I could control. It took me two years before I could stand the light of a computer screen, but it helped me tremendously to organize the verbal thoughts not only on the screen, but in my mind away from the screen.

But still none of it is permanent for me, as I could live and experience the past with the feel of the shirt and shorts I wore on my skin, the sights I saw, the humidity of the air, the smells in the environment, and the way it felt when I walked per my vitality of energy, but still can't describe in words what I did yesterday, when someone asks me. The place I could find emotion was usually outside of me, mostly in music, and in the emotional energy of others.

My eyes starting making tears again thank goodness, but I suppose the best part of that experience was I was forced to find someway to organize the verbal thoughts in my mind. I don't watch TV much anymore; that seems to help a great deal. What's really strange is falling a sleep and not remembering all of the bits and pieces of conversations from TV shows in my mind in a semi dream state. that I could remember doing most of my life. My spouse still watches TV hours upon hours everyday in another room. I like listening to people talk about non-fictional stuff on the radio, occasionally. I was busy trying to understand life outside of me most of my life, that I guess I never really had to find a central coherency in thoughts, that I could easily control. I wonder if it is similar for many people, even those not on a diagnosed spectrum, until they themselves in a quiet dark place somewhere, not necessarily of their choosing.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate you're helping me to understand how my husband and son may think and learn. And I sincerely find you all very insightful and interesting human beings. Have you guys considered opening a blog? I love the way you put in words how you perceive the world Because even if my husband is quite verbal, he's not good at putting in words how his brain works!

I would say so, yes. Sometimes I get in a very bad mood in noisy places, and it just takes a quiet, relaxed place where I can be alone to get my mood and coherence up again. And as far as I'm concerned I'm 100% NT.

Interesting as some of what you describe is in the description of Hyperlexia:

I never heard of hyperlexia until I visited this site, but it fit my history well as a child, and associated strengths and weaknesses with language. It is rarely mentioned in official literature associated with Autism, even though it is indicated in this article as present in 5 to 10% of Autism Spectrum cases. It also can be associated with NVLD. The key for hyperlexia that sets it apart from Aspergers in the US is for those with language delays. But as mentioned earlier in the discussion that is not an issue in the Gillberg Criteria.

Pragmatic Language impairment is associated with ASD, ADHD, Hyperlexia, and NVLD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_ ... impairment

The Wiki article quoted below provides a brief overview of hyperlexia but this link provides many more details:

http://www.ldail.com/index.php?option=c ... Itemid=112

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperlexia

You're welcome. I can't speak for anyone else, but I find it very difficult to initiate any thoughts in writing, without a comment first that stimulates a response . The internet is great for that because there are so many comments out there. Most every post I start is usually in response to a comment or research I saw somewhere. And sometimes it is actually a response I made somewhere else.

I hope btbnnyr doesn't mind, but btbnnyr has a personal blog listed in btbnnyr's profile, that is an excellent resource, from the point of view of someone on the spectrum who made the transition from thinking non-verbally to the ability to speak at age 8. I have never come across anyone that could describe it in the way btbnnyr does it in pictures and words, with a very positive outlook.

The unique ability for abstract reasoning and potential for unique insights that Michelle Dawson attempts to measure that she describes as "Autistic Intelligence" can be found there. I haven't seen it in very many places on the internet.

Perhaps Btbnnyr would not like the social attention, but it is the type of unique stuff worth publishing in an e-book, as an invaluable resource. The beauty of it is there appears to be no hidden agendas for ego except for being "hooman". I think that is a gift on the spectrum, that my sister and Btbnnyr shares with some others.

My son is 100% non-verbal, and he's 5 yrs-old. He was initially diagnosed as severely autistic, some doctors told me he was hopeless. When he turned 3 the diagnosis was changed to PDD-NOS and some kind of auditive processing disorder of epileptic origin that luckily got solved. I know he's bright and an awesome kid, but most people just think he's MR and that's why he can't talk. And on top of that it's very difficult to evaluate him since the psychologist can never be sure whether he can't understand what they ask him to do or it's just that he's not in the mood or if it's in fact a cognitive disability. He can use the computer but cannot write meaningful sentences yet. He doesn't seem to rely that much in pictures, though. And his gross motor abilities are great, his fine motor are not not as good but he's left handed. He's a mystery box, we really don't know what to expect...

So, you probably can guess what it means to me finding people with PDD-NOS, autism or other diagnosis that have found a way to communicate so well as yourself and btbnnyr! It's like finding an oasis in the middle of a desert! I hope btbnnyr doesn't mind if I become a fan of her blog

That actually kind of sounds like me. I am much better at putting my thoughts into writing than I am into speech, but I find it so much easier to post in response to others than I do to start a piece of writing cold. I am not sure how my ability relates to yours as I know I can start writing without a direct prompt, but it is something that I do not do nearly as often as I want to.



The most recent post is relevant to a recent frustration for me. On another forum, I saw a couple of people (not NTs, but not necessarily autistic) talking about autistic children (well, one is nearly an adult now and the other is 10-12 I think) and making the fact that neither child engaged in imaginative play as something tragic and heartbreaking, and the way they described their play was very much like mine - which is to say I liked to have toys, but I didn't really play with them the way they were "supposed" to be played with. I mostly just arranged them in interesting ways.

That's a digression, though. It was interesting to find a post where an autistic child's activities are presented in a positive light. Of course, the author was the autistic child in question, which plays a significant role.