Lovely little essay on neurotypical privilege

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kicker
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08 Jan 2015, 3:01 pm

@B19

My objection isn't with change based on financial grounds. My objection is with the lack of details of the change. The broad characterizations being made based on an idea that in my opinion is short sighted of privilege (cause you can claim that of just about anything and it's become a 'pop' term), the lack of any detailed or objective thought given to how those changes might systematically affect individuals already in treatment and flourishing, the already long waiting periods for people to get into services, the lack of services currently available that have created the long waits, etc.

Anyone can point at something and say how much better they think they can do it, I am asking you to prove it by detailing it out and ensuring that your proposed change is one that will have merited benefits.

Right now you are saying forcing people who work with anyone who has ASD to have more training on what it means to be ASD would be of a fix. OK, so how do you go from "if you met one person with ASD....." to a program that is designed to cover what it's like for everyone with ASD?

How do you get enough trained 'neurodiverse' individuals to handle the teaching of the flood of people who currently work with people who have ASD and enough for the ones still training for their field?

How do you use the resources already available to promote such change?

Given the current resources could you make smaller less ambitious shifts that have an accumulative affect?

What are the criteria for passing such standards? What the hell are the standards needed to pass? How do you circumvent the right to confidential sessions if you have to moderate interactions and ensure those standards are being used? Would this be a completely new branch of the current mental health services model, if not then how many extra hours of training would be needed to meet the new standard, if yes then how much of the current model do you replace with the new? What about co-morbids?

Given you have repeatedly stated that you are a retired psychologist, you should have the best opportunity to understand and articulate in detail how to implement such a plan. Given your knowledge and understanding of the existing system.

You haven't defined anything, but how great it would be and how horrible it is now, not to mention dismissing and being critical to anyone who thinks that it needs more depth than that. That's not critical thinking, it's not advocacy, it's sitting on the sidelines and feeling self righteous.

You want an intelligent conversation about it, then don't use hyperbole to promote your ideas and give concrete answers without side stepping them or putting it on someone else to prove it won't work.



Last edited by kicker on 08 Jan 2015, 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

btbnnyr
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08 Jan 2015, 3:06 pm

Maybe autistic adults who can't find work in autistic-unfriendly job market could try becoming self-employed in areas that help autistic people, such as tutoring for autistic students, life coaching for autistic people (I feel like I need one sometimes), using technical skills to make apps or software for autistic needs, etc. People often say that they want to help professionals or become professionals to work with autistic people, but one can also skip the professionals and just start small with helping other autistic people outside the confines of traditional neurotypical workplaces.


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B19
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08 Jan 2015, 3:40 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Maybe autistic adults who can't find work in autistic-unfriendly job market could try becoming self-employed in areas that help autistic people, such as tutoring for autistic students, life coaching for autistic people (I feel like I need one sometimes), using technical skills to make apps or software for autistic needs, etc. People often say that they want to help professionals or become professionals to work with autistic people, but one can also skip the professionals and just start small with helping other autistic people outside the confines of traditional neurotypical workplaces.


Yes, I think that's a very constructive idea.. I've seen it happen and grow in other areas to bring about unforeseen change..



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08 Jan 2015, 4:02 pm

Kicker, what would you like to see change, and how?

I think charging me with responsibility for redesigning the outcome and ethos of whole system is a bit premature! At this stage there is still need to work out exactly what we do have, and what needs to change, then once that awareness grows to a critical mass, people become inspired and generate new conceptions, frameworks and possibilities. At least that's how past change seems to have happened..



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08 Jan 2015, 5:22 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
This is not meant to be a "rant," or to be something which is posted for the sake of mere iconoclasm.

What I write is reflective of strong visceral feelings on my part.

Nope....I don't believe all this explicitly espouses Autistic Separatism.

But I have a strong feeling that this might be the result.

Yes, we must always evolve.

But how are we going to educate people on autism if the "common man" is left out? I know what a "paradigm shift" is--but most people won't. Frankly, people will be put off by an "intellectual" approach to things. There is the tendency to believe that people who speak in academic-ese are "withholding something."

All right...let's have the conferences, discussions, etc. amongst the Academics, intellectuals, think-tank members.

But let's, also, allow more than a "trickle" to come down to the "masses." Otherwise, not much will be accomplished.

Please remember: most bosses who will potentially employ autistic people are "regular" people," who don't always to go to academic symposia, or sit in think tanks.

There must be education in CONJUNCTION with the overall approach--not ONLY employing the overall approach.

Otherwise, all this will stay in the Ivory Tower. Like many good-intentioned ideas.


I'm very aware of my tendency to think and write in academic terms - the beast is what it is - which is why I chose the OP article, because it simplifies in a way I have frequently trouble doing.

Education is always important, I agree, though it depends on what conceptual framework the education takes place - (getting academic again - though for those who believe that, like me, see "Frame Theory" if you are interested).



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08 Jan 2015, 5:27 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:
Guys, I'll have to get back to you later on this. This stomach bug is kicking my arse again. (At least the vomiting is over, but the diarrhoea, churning guts and sickly nausea aren't... :-/)


I hope you get well soon, the experience of bugs like that is absolutely wretched ;( - and I miss my "Boswellian" compatriot :)



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08 Jan 2015, 5:52 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Maybe autistic adults who can't find work in autistic-unfriendly job market could try becoming self-employed in areas that help autistic people, such as tutoring for autistic students, life coaching for autistic people (I feel like I need one sometimes), using technical skills to make apps or software for autistic needs, etc. People often say that they want to help professionals or become professionals to work with autistic people, but one can also skip the professionals and just start small with helping other autistic people outside the confines of traditional neurotypical workplaces.


As technology improves, the future of workplaces will be more remote based (possibly even home based). This will favor the autistic community more.



kicker
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08 Jan 2015, 10:17 pm

B19 wrote:
Kicker, what would you like to see change, and how?

I think charging me with responsibility for redesigning the outcome and ethos of whole system is a bit premature! At this stage there is still need to work out exactly what we do have, and what needs to change, then once that awareness grows to a critical mass, people become inspired and generate new conceptions, frameworks and possibilities. At least that's how past change seems to have happened..


:roll:



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08 Jan 2015, 10:29 pm

B19 wrote:
NiceCupOfTea wrote:
Guys, I'll have to get back to you later on this. This stomach bug is kicking my arse again. (At least the vomiting is over, but the diarrhoea, churning guts and sickly nausea aren't... :-/)


I hope you get well soon, the experience of bugs like that is absolutely wretched ;( - and I miss my "Boswellian" compatriot :)


Er, thanks. Ignore my snappiness in the other thread, or at least put it down to the stomach bug! :eew:

Who's your "Boswellian" compatriot?



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08 Jan 2015, 10:48 pm

Samuel Johnson was a curmudgeonly type--and he also enjoyed having a nice cup of tea every once in a while.



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08 Jan 2015, 11:05 pm

Thanks for sharing this essay with such profound meaning that yet eludes many/most neuropsych professionals. I've survived therapeutic abuse.

The misguided clinician I encountered believed a priori that I was her inferior, even speaking to me in 'baby talk' (pronouncing words as if to a baby), and that was only the start of her staggering ignorance. My familial heritage includes some who were 'on the spectrum' (e.g., my father & paternal grandfather, both of whom I have the utmost respect). I spent an inordinate amount of time 'teaching' her, to no avail. She had a great sense of accomplishment in defaming me, watching me suffer in humiliation and degradation.

Clinician then held a secret meeting about me, without inviting me. She announced to all that (quote) "Aspies are no good." Further, she decided that I was never to contact any Wrong Planet members, and somehow she would enforce her inane rule. I am still livid as to how grievously I was mistreated. Just pain....I would contribute more here, but must hold back my tears.


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08 Jan 2015, 11:13 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:
Guys, I'll have to get back to you later on this. This stomach bug is kicking my arse again. (At least the vomiting is over, but the diarrhoea, churning guts and sickly nausea aren't... :-/)


Oh no, hope you're feeling better soon!


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08 Jan 2015, 11:33 pm

LabPet wrote:
Thanks for sharing this essay with such profound meaning that yet eludes many/most neuropsych professionals. I've survived therapeutic abuse.

The misguided clinician I encountered believed a priori that I was her inferior, even speaking to me in 'baby talk' (pronouncing words as if to a baby), and that was only the start of her staggering ignorance. My familial heritage includes some who were 'on the spectrum' (e.g., my father & paternal grandfather, both of whom I have the utmost respect). I spent an inordinate amount of time 'teaching' her, to no avail. She had a great sense of accomplishment in defaming me, watching me suffer in humiliation and degradation.

Clinician then held a secret meeting about me, without inviting me. She announced to all that (quote) "Aspies are no good." Further, she decided that I was never to contact any Wrong Planet members, and somehow she would enforce her inane rule. I am still livid as to how grievously I was mistreated. Just pain....I would contribute more here, but must hold back my tears.


That's horrible... I'm so sorry you went through that.


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09 Jan 2015, 12:04 am

btbnnyr wrote:
Maybe autistic adults who can't find work in autistic-unfriendly job market could try becoming self-employed in areas that help autistic people, such as tutoring for autistic students, life coaching for autistic people (I feel like I need one sometimes), using technical skills to make apps or software for autistic needs, etc. People often say that they want to help professionals or become professionals to work with autistic people, but one can also skip the professionals and just start small with helping other autistic people outside the confines of traditional neurotypical workplaces.


I also think more autistic adults should reach out to parents of autistic children.


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09 Jan 2015, 12:10 am

LabPet wrote:
Thanks for sharing this essay with such profound meaning that yet eludes many/most neuropsych professionals. I've survived therapeutic abuse.

The misguided clinician I encountered believed a priori that I was her inferior, even speaking to me in 'baby talk' (pronouncing words as if to a baby), and that was only the start of her staggering ignorance. My familial heritage includes some who were 'on the spectrum' (e.g., my father & paternal grandfather, both of whom I have the utmost respect). I spent an inordinate amount of time 'teaching' her, to no avail. She had a great sense of accomplishment in defaming me, watching me suffer in humiliation and degradation.

Clinician then held a secret meeting about me, without inviting me. She announced to all that (quote) "Aspies are no good." Further, she decided that I was never to contact any Wrong Planet members, and somehow she would enforce her inane rule. I am still livid as to how grievously I was mistreated. Just pain....I would contribute more here, but must hold back my tears.


Wow. I don't even.

Although mine's is not as extreme as your's, I survived pretty similar abuse (ABA/behavior modification in high school - ugh), but the toll it's taken is awful. Instead of a clinician it was through speech therapy, and I was babied similar to you, and in many cases the lessons were very kindergarten-like. It was almost as if I was seen as a 5-year old, and the teacher had no faith in me. She also made some subtle yet demeaning statements about autistic people (sweeping generalizations).

I don't have her classes anymore, and thank god. Really, a lot of these "baby" techniques do not work on cognizant people, and can be very degrading, and very harmful.



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09 Jan 2015, 12:14 am

LabPet wrote:
Thanks for sharing this essay with such profound meaning that yet eludes many/most neuropsych professionals. I've survived therapeutic abuse.

The misguided clinician I encountered believed a priori that I was her inferior, even speaking to me in 'baby talk' (pronouncing words as if to a baby), and that was only the start of her staggering ignorance. My familial heritage includes some who were 'on the spectrum' (e.g., my father & paternal grandfather, both of whom I have the utmost respect). I spent an inordinate amount of time 'teaching' her, to no avail. She had a great sense of accomplishment in defaming me, watching me suffer in humiliation and degradation.

Clinician then held a secret meeting about me, without inviting me. She announced to all that (quote) "Aspies are no good." Further, she decided that I was never to contact any Wrong Planet members, and somehow she would enforce her inane rule. I am still livid as to how grievously I was mistreated. Just pain....I would contribute more here, but must hold back my tears.


One of my biggest fears at the moment is that something similar like what happened to you might happen to me. I lose sleep over it and have nightmares. I realize that horrible crap can happen thanks to a diagnosis, and I have a lot of fear over that. I'm in the process of figuring out how to get diagnosed with my lack of resources and a nonsensical system... I'm only self-diagnosed at the moment.

I've dealt with medical abuse/neglect before... and I don't want to add to that.


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Now take a trip with me but don't be surprised when things aren't what they seem. I've known it from the start all these good ideas will tear your brain apart. Scared, but you can follow me. I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. - a7x