Do you think we should be allowed to mate?

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Adamantium
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10 May 2015, 5:44 pm

xenocity wrote:
anthropic_principle wrote:
I don't quite understand the extreme negative reactions to eugenics in general, is it simply due to its nazi connotations?
I'm still on the fence though when it comes to autism, maybe a better start would be implementing mandatory social intervention and promoting possible drugs that can help.
I never got either of those, I might not be so messed up right now if I had..

Part of it is Nazis and the other part is how far the U.S. states took it in the first half of the 1900s.


And part of it is that it's quite obvious that for the most part the eugenicists have no idea what they are talking about: their science is crap and their methods are crap. Given their lack of understanding of genetics, epigenetics and gene-environment interactions, It's almost as if their purpose is to exercise power over other people rather than "improve the gene pool."



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10 May 2015, 7:02 pm

Let's suppose that this horrendous idea of "not allowing" people on the ASD spectrum is in force; we have all been forced at gunpoint to undergo sterilisation. The world is safe from us!

Oh but now neurotypical parents are bringing in children who are being diagnosed with autism! So we will have to sterilise these neurotypical parents, and these new ASD children, so the rest of the breeding population is safely normal now... oh but hang on, that didn't work!! So we will make all the fertiles left submit their DNA to big brother and only licence those whose chromosomes are not suspect to breed, and punish any dissenters severely, put down any children they have.

Oh, but for some unknown reason, a new generation of ASD children have appeared. Well we will bring them up in isolation as experimental objects until we stamp out this curse once and for all. All "right thinking" people know that this is a greater good and it is not cruel to do this, it is for the children's own good (of course). Isn't anything prefixed with "for their own good" automatically beneficial? Of course it is. Right. Let's start rounding them up. Trace their addresses through website interfaces, medical records, benefits, schools, psychiatrists. We will put them in concentration aka "holding" camps while we process them, and tattoo each one with a number to stop any confusion from occurring while we process them. We don't need any more Einsteins or Alan Turings, thank you very much, and as Autism Speaks knows, these people are just a disease inflicted on the proper human race. Any resistors may be shot on sight for the public good.

Oh but hold on now the gene pool is so uniform that we are getting inbreeding effects and a whole lot of children born with serious abnormalities and congenital deformities. So we will have to sterilise them too. Oh well, we thought that was the right thing to do at the time, how could we know it would lead to the extinction of the human race? We were only trying to help them... our motives were always good. And Suzanne Wright was honoured by Pope Francis, after all...



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10 May 2015, 7:34 pm

anthropic_principle wrote:
I don't quite understand the extreme negative reactions to eugenics in general, is it simply due to its nazi connotations?


Actually-occurring eugenics is always an abuse of power, and I have no qualms whatsoever about visiting unspeakable brutalities upon abusers of power.


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10 May 2015, 7:37 pm

B19 wrote:
Let's suppose that this horrendous idea of "not allowing" people on the ASD spectrum is in force; we have all been forced at gunpoint to undergo sterilisation. The world is safe from us!

Oh but now neurotypical parents are bringing in children who are being diagnosed with autism! So we will have to sterilise these neurotypical parents, and these new ASD children, so the rest of the breeding population is safely normal now... oh but hang on, that didn't work!! So we will make all the fertiles left submit their DNA to big brother and only licence those whose chromosomes are not suspect to breed, and punish any dissenters severely, put down any children they have.

Oh, but for some unknown reason, a new generation of ASD children have appeared. Well we will bring them up in isolation as experimental objects until we stamp out this curse once and for all. All "right thinking" people know that this is a greater good and it is not cruel to do this, it is for the children's own good (of course). Isn't anything prefixed with "for their own good" automatically beneficial? Of course it is. Right. Let's start rounding them up. Trace their addresses through website interfaces, medical records, benefits, schools, psychiatrists. We will put them in concentration aka "holding" camps while we process them, and tattoo each one with a number to stop any confusion from occurring while we process them. We don't need any more Einsteins or Alan Turings, thank you very much, and as Autism Speaks knows, these people are just a disease inflicted on the proper human race. Any resistors may be shot on sight for the public good.

Oh but hold on now the gene pool is so uniform that we are getting inbreeding effects and a whole lot of children born with serious abnormalities and congenital deformities. So we will have to sterilise them too. Oh well, we thought that was the right thing to do at the time, how could we know it would lead to the extinction of the human race? We were only trying to help them... our motives were always good. And Suzanne Wright was honoured by Pope Francis, after all...


Personally I wholeheartedly support the non-selective extermination of the human race. It's only the bit about picking winners and losers that bothers me.


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Transyl
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10 May 2015, 7:45 pm

Very high probability autism runs in my genes. Guaranteed fact that stuttering is common in my family. Uncle and grandfather both had it. I still do and always will.

Having a child... I don't know if I could bear risking their life being like mine. Not to mention that I probably couldn't do most of the things parents are expected to.



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11 May 2015, 5:03 pm

RhodyStruggle wrote:
B19 wrote:
Let's suppose that this horrendous idea of "not allowing" people on the ASD spectrum is in force; we have all been forced at gunpoint to undergo sterilisation. The world is safe from us!

Oh but now neurotypical parents are bringing in children who are being diagnosed with autism! So we will have to sterilise these neurotypical parents, and these new ASD children, so the rest of the breeding population is safely normal now... oh but hang on, that didn't work!! So we will make all the fertiles left submit their DNA to big brother and only licence those whose chromosomes are not suspect to breed, and punish any dissenters severely, put down any children they have.

Oh, but for some unknown reason, a new generation of ASD children have appeared. Well we will bring them up in isolation as experimental objects until we stamp out this curse once and for all. All "right thinking" people know that this is a greater good and it is not cruel to do this, it is for the children's own good (of course). Isn't anything prefixed with "for their own good" automatically beneficial? Of course it is. Right. Let's start rounding them up. Trace their addresses through website interfaces, medical records, benefits, schools, psychiatrists. We will put them in concentration aka "holding" camps while we process them, and tattoo each one with a number to stop any confusion from occurring while we process them. We don't need any more Einsteins or Alan Turings, thank you very much, and as Autism Speaks knows, these people are just a disease inflicted on the proper human race. Any resistors may be shot on sight for the public good.

Oh but hold on now the gene pool is so uniform that we are getting inbreeding effects and a whole lot of children born with serious abnormalities and congenital deformities. So we will have to sterilise them too. Oh well, we thought that was the right thing to do at the time, how could we know it would lead to the extinction of the human race? We were only trying to help them... our motives were always good. And Suzanne Wright was honoured by Pope Francis, after all...


Personally I wholeheartedly support the non-selective extermination of the human race. It's only the bit about picking winners and losers that bothers me.


You're for equal opportunity genocide! :D



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11 May 2015, 7:10 pm

Allowed by whom? That is the first question.


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11 May 2015, 7:52 pm

beneficii wrote:
Allowed by whom? That is the first question.

Bob, down in accounting.



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11 May 2015, 9:11 pm

B19 wrote:
Let's suppose that this horrendous idea of "not allowing" people on the ASD spectrum is in force; we have all been forced at gunpoint to undergo sterilisation. The world is safe from us!

Oh but now neurotypical parents are bringing in children who are being diagnosed with autism! So we will have to sterilise these neurotypical parents, and these new ASD children, so the rest of the breeding population is safely normal now... oh but hang on, that didn't work!! So we will make all the fertiles left submit their DNA to big brother and only licence those whose chromosomes are not suspect to breed, and punish any dissenters severely, put down any children they have.

Oh, but for some unknown reason, a new generation of ASD children have appeared. Well we will bring them up in isolation as experimental objects until we stamp out this curse once and for all. All "right thinking" people know that this is a greater good and it is not cruel to do this, it is for the children's own good (of course). Isn't anything prefixed with "for their own good" automatically beneficial? Of course it is. Right. Let's start rounding them up. Trace their addresses through website interfaces, medical records, benefits, schools, psychiatrists. We will put them in concentration aka "holding" camps while we process them, and tattoo each one with a number to stop any confusion from occurring while we process them. We don't need any more Einsteins or Alan Turings, thank you very much, and as Autism Speaks knows, these people are just a disease inflicted on the proper human race. Any resistors may be shot on sight for the public good.

Oh but hold on now the gene pool is so uniform that we are getting inbreeding effects and a whole lot of children born with serious abnormalities and congenital deformities. So we will have to sterilise them too. Oh well, we thought that was the right thing to do at the time, how could we know it would lead to the extinction of the human race? We were only trying to help them... our motives were always good. And Suzanne Wright was honoured by Pope Francis, after all...


This is well written. If you open the door to eugenics, no one knows where it will lead. But on a personal level, I wonder if it was wise for my husband and I to have children. We are managing but it is hard. We both struggle at times to be good parents. It might have been better for us to have children with someone with good genes. Our children have more ASD symptoms than my husband. But we have dealt with the environment issues such as bullying by living and educating them in an open minded community. My daughter is 13 and has never really been bullied. She gets good services and is slowly expanding her world. It puts a lot of stress on us to afford this area, but at least we get to reduce the negative social influences for now.


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12 May 2015, 11:59 am

beneficii wrote:
Allowed by whom? That is the first question.


Society. We're all part of it.



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12 May 2015, 1:01 pm

Society has no right to restrict this.


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12 May 2015, 11:16 pm

alex wrote:
Society has no right to restrict this.

In a moral society yes, in a corrupt society the society has the right to do whatever it can get away with. I would say at the moment we're in no danger, but that's not to say times can't change.



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12 May 2015, 11:49 pm

cberg wrote:
Feh, I'm not even really decided on spending my whole life on Earth anyway...



Where you gonna take us, Cberg? Let's lift off and find a place where there are still dogs, sea horses and red pandas, but far less humans! :D


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13 May 2015, 3:28 am

On Polish AS forum I read about two women who are married to men who probably are Aspies. They may appear to be concerned about condition which their husbands have. They have offspring, but I do not know if they have ASD symptoms or not.

"My mentality" does not want to have non-Aspie wife and non-Aspie child(ren). It looks wrong. Aspies tend to suffer because of reactions of others and their symptoms, such as sensory issues and serious social ineptitude. Aspies are interesting for me, NTs are "other" and less fascinating. Raising children with AS with an Aspijka as the wife may look pleasant, funny, interesting for me (I want to life in the home of my parents (current one))... It looks not serious for me and may be a proof of my irresponsibility, emotional imbalance etc. To be in family with "own" people, not with NTs who have significantly other mentality... I may have an idea of forming entire family of autistic people. Do you think that it would be something immoral and sinful?



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13 May 2015, 3:52 am

nca14 wrote:
To be in family with "own" people, not with NTs who have significantly other mentality... I may have an idea of forming entire family of autistic people. Do you think that it would be something immoral and sinful?


I think that's entirely up to you, but you should be prepared for potential cases of LFA and comorbidities. Despite what you may be told ('every child is a struggle to parent'), raising a person with LFA or other severe disabilities is quite the task.

I'm not sure at what rate AS + AS would produce dysfunction relative to AS + NT, but I'd imagine it would be higher unless the NT had ADHD or various other disorders.


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13 May 2015, 4:09 am

envirozentinel wrote:
Where you gonna take us, Cberg? Let's lift off and find a place where there are still dogs, sea horses and red pandas, but far less humans! :D


You scared me there, good thing Red Pandas are still around. The Mozilla Foundation has been contributing to their conservation efforts for a few years now, because they're as close as we're gonna get to a living, breathing Firefox. Having typed this, I have now correctly interpreted your post; would it be so wrong of me to suss out a nice exoplanet covered in giant spiders/arthropods/cephalopods? I promise I would just study them from orbit upon emergence from cryo-stasis. Accepting the astronomical unlikelihood of a return trip would be worth it if I could take notes on just one pseudo-carboniferous multipod.


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