American Professor Couple Identify Major Cause of Autism

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goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 6:32 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
TheAvenger161173 wrote:
So you haven’t been diagnosed? If you haven’t been diagnosed, your basically someone not diagnosed with autism,saying they have been cured of “autism” and offering proof by giving anecdotal evidence and saying they haven’t been effected by the placebo effect.


Something else I need to address for the countless-ieth time?

I've been completely transparent about the fact, like many on these forums, that I am self diagnosed. I never wanted an official diagnosis. I did not want the stigma of it from others nor weighing on my own mind nor on my medical records for anyone to ever use against me in any way. I also didn't want one, especially during the worst of times for my symptoms, because an official diagnosis would have meant I took one massive leap forward in terms of admitting defeat and that I'd never function normally or work again and would be stuck on some sort of welfare program for the rest of my life. Sure, in hindsight that's horrible depressive thinking & I could have been drawing $6xx/month for the few years I couldn't work, but there was No Fing way I was doing anything that put me into that mental position of accepting my fate as sealed - done, over, forget about ever having any kind of future. That was not an option - not welfare, not an official diagnosis - none of it. And I'm GLAD I drew those very hard lines in the sand and refused to cross them. I persisted, I eventually figured out what was causing all my symptoms to be so amplified, and learned & did what I needed to in order to heal and function as a nearly normal member of society. Had I been the "F it, just give up and accept your fate, loser." type, then maybe I'd have a rubber stamped diagnosis & an extra $18K of taxpayer funded income - BUT - then I wouldn't have what I have now, a working treatment protocol and a better quality of life for the rest of my life, which could be another ~60 years or so. Way rather have that. Regardless, I can read and comprehend information. I know my diagnosis just as well as anyone else. I don't need anyone else to tell me what I already know about being an Aspie any more than I need anyone else to tell me I'm gay. I just know, the same as the rest of you know yourselves and that your diagnosis - whether official or self, is correct.


Even though I am professionally diagnosed I have defended well researched self diagnosis on WP. I do not understand your fear of stigma from others. Unless it is different in Canada you do not have to tell anybody of your diagnosis. If you fear the diagnostic report getting into the wrong hands a possible option is to request the clinician diagnose you sans diagnostic report.

I never remotely thought of my diagnosis as a give up and accept your fate as a loser statement. I thought of the “symptoms” as these are things I have a lot of difficulty with not things I can’t do. My diagnosis is a guideline, a map that says these are the things you need to be aware of, be cautious about, find coping mechanisms for, these are things that are my strengths I should develope them more etc.


That's fine, for you. Feel free to go back 4+ years and you'll see if stated the exact same reasons, for myself back then.

For the record, the stigma issue was more of an issue for me back then, just as virtually everything weighing on my mind was. Now, not so much. However, with zero need nor want to pursue any sort of welfare benefits with an official diagnosis, I have no need for one. The only way I'd bother is if someone were funding a medical study and I were volunteering for it, then I'd happily show the team what I can do with a little biochemistry & time that would amplify my symptoms Bigly (as the POTUS would say) and put me (back to) well within the diagnosable range on the HFA spectrum, and then what I can do with a little biochemistry & time that keeps my symptoms minimized and enables me to live the life I am instead. I've openly stated that for 4+ years that in the name of science I'd send myself straight back to Autistic hell, but only under those conditions where it served a scientific purpose - otherwise, F that, no way I'm regressing and enduring horrific depression and anxiety and an inability to work and function in daily life for a while in order to pursue a paper diagnosis to placate some screen names on an internet forum.

I doesn't matter to me what you wanted or needed a diagnosis for nor what you did with it. I'm perfectly capable of learning and reading myself and knowing what my strengths and weaknesses are. I don't require someone else to tell me those things. Further, with my symptoms maintained as minimally as they are, there's next to no value in it. Granted, when symptoms present themselves and I'm not self aware, as also shared on these forums, I rely on others like mirrors and take their feedback into constant consideration. So I do rely on live feedback and criticisms from others, in a sense, but I don't need a diagnostic list or strengths and weaknesses that would literally do nothing for me that I haven't already done for myself. That's not to say there's anything wrong with what you've done with a list for yourself, it just simply isn't a thing I want or need.


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WallflowerAsparagus
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10 Dec 2017, 6:47 am

Reading this article made me feel like I'm some sort of awful disease. :|
"Normal baby mice".

I call BS on these two.


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nephets
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10 Dec 2017, 8:43 am

WallflowerAsparagus wrote:
Reading this article made me feel like I'm some sort of awful disease. :|
"Normal baby mice".

I call BS on these two.

Indeed. How does one diagnose an autistic mouse? We have slipped into comedy here.



ASPartOfMe
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10 Dec 2017, 10:14 am

nephets wrote:
WallflowerAsparagus wrote:
Reading this article made me feel like I'm some sort of awful disease. :|
"Normal baby mice".

I call BS on these two.

Indeed. How does one diagnose an autistic mouse? We have slipped into comedy here.


They use often use mouse models to do prelimary research. If the research shows results human testing is done.

I have read on this and other forums that cats are an aspie animal bullied by NT dogs. I have never observed a cat stim or have fine motor problems :D


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nephets
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10 Dec 2017, 11:38 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
nephets wrote:
WallflowerAsparagus wrote:
Reading this article made me feel like I'm some sort of awful disease. :|
"Normal baby mice".

I call BS on these two.

Indeed. How does one diagnose an autistic mouse? We have slipped into comedy here.


They use often use mouse models to do prelimary research. If the research shows results human testing is done.

I have read on this and other forums that cats are an aspie animal bullied by NT dogs. I have never observed a cat stim or have fine motor problems :D

Yes, rodent testing is done for drug research. It is not, however, done to study human behaviour. That would be ridiculous.



goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 2:00 pm

nephets wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
nephets wrote:
WallflowerAsparagus wrote:
Reading this article made me feel like I'm some sort of awful disease. :|
"Normal baby mice".

I call BS on these two.

Indeed. How does one diagnose an autistic mouse? We have slipped into comedy here.


They use often use mouse models to do prelimary research. If the research shows results human testing is done.

I have read on this and other forums that cats are an aspie animal bullied by NT dogs. I have never observed a cat stim or have fine motor problems :D

Yes, rodent testing is done for drug research. It is not, however, done to study human behaviour. That would be ridiculous.


..except it is. I've read about at least 2 studies using mice that behaved with autistic traits.

Further, mice are used to observe decision making behaviour with regards to rewards & addictive drugs and then the observations are extrapolated to help explain human behaviour. It's not uncommon for laboratory mice' behaviour to be used for pre-human trials. Not at all. If they were wanting to study only the physical effects on organs they'd be using some kind of monkeys, or maybe pigs since it's said their internal organs are closest to those of humans. But it's common scientific research practice to use mice - including for studying behaviour, whether nervousness, memory, decision making, addictions etc.


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TheAvenger161173
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11 Dec 2017, 4:09 am

nephets wrote:
WallflowerAsparagus wrote:
Reading this article made me feel like I'm some sort of awful disease. :|
"Normal baby mice".

I call BS on these two.

Indeed. How does one diagnose an autistic mouse? We have slipped into comedy here.

In the next study they are testing the protocol on autistic dogs. So just cats.



ASPartOfMe
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11 Dec 2017, 12:58 pm

Mutant mouse models of autism spectrum disorders.
Behavioural phenotyping assays for mouse models of autism
Genetic mouse models of depression.
Animal models of schizophrenia: a critical review

This stuff is not new
A syndrome in the dog resembling human infantile autism -1966


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nephets
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11 Dec 2017, 1:54 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

This is all very silly. How exactly can anyone diagnose autism in an animal if it is difficult in a human? Are 'scientists' perhaps proposing to question Fido about his linguistic skills, or reactions to meeting other dogs in a social setting? Is a dog who doesn't appreciate the smell of other dogs backsides potentially autistic? Perhaps a mouse who doesn't squeek loudly is introverted? How about a cat with an aversion to other cats (all of them, by the way). Perhaps Cats are all autistic?
By the way, anything on autism from 1966 is almost certainly rubbish. This was a time when autism was thought to be caused by uncaring parents! Infantile autism! Antiquated.
Oh, and we are not schizophrenic, so I'm not sure the relevance of that study is.
I'm sorry, but anybody can call themselves a scientist, it is not a protected term. Drug tests on animals are of course very valuable, but trying to make value judgments on animal behaviour and comparing it to homo sapiens is very dubious.



goldfish21
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11 Dec 2017, 2:27 pm

..except that's how the scientific research studies that you covet so much are done, on animals, and very often, on mice.


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ASPartOfMe
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11 Dec 2017, 6:20 pm

nephets wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:

This is all very silly. How exactly can anyone diagnose autism in an animal if it is difficult in a human? Are 'scientists' perhaps proposing to question Fido about his linguistic skills, or reactions to meeting other dogs in a social setting? Is a dog who doesn't appreciate the smell of other dogs backsides potentially autistic? Perhaps a mouse who doesn't squeek loudly is introverted? How about a cat with an aversion to other cats (all of them, by the way). Perhaps Cats are all autistic?
By the way, anything on autism from 1966 is almost certainly rubbish. This was a time when autism was thought to be caused by uncaring parents! Infantile autism! Antiquated.
Oh, and we are not schizophrenic, so I'm not sure the relevance of that study is.
I'm sorry, but anybody can call themselves a scientist, it is not a protected term. Drug tests on animals are of course very valuable, but trying to make value judgments on animal behaviour and comparing it to homo sapiens is very dubious.


The posting of links to peer-reviewed animal studies of schizophrenia and depression was done to show this method of research is used for behavioral conditions in general, not just autism, the link to 1966 was posted to show that this is a method in long standing use

It is problematic but considered more ethical then experimenting on humans so that is why that is done. That it is problematic is taken into consideration that is why research goes or should go like this
1. Test theory on animals
2. If results are a "success" do preliminary testing on a small group of humans
3 If the small sample research confirms the theory test on a larger group of humans.

Have others try and replicate the positive results.


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