HORROR: Concentration Camp for Auties and Aspies

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What else can be done for extremely destructive individuals (the whole "reward" thing seems like a better option for those who respond to such and/or aren't as destructive)?

You can forcibly drug/sedate them until they're not who they are anymore; which is probably as deplorable as "shocking" someone
You can lock them up
You can do nothing and they'll seriously harm/kill themselves or someone else
You can try things like in both the articles (punishment or reward)

Other than "reward", none of the options sounds any more humane or better on the individual than the others. It's the rock and a hard place no matter what you do.

Consider this:

If an autist wrote down a plan for how he would place people against their will in a large compound, then punish them repeatedly and constantly until they were quiescent, he would be regarded with fear, suspicion, and quite probably be interned as a danger to others.

If Stephen King wrote a similar plan, he would have the plot for his latest horror best seller, make a fortune, and people would read the book, shudder, then close it, safe in the knowledge it was only fiction.

If the Germans circa 1941 did it (and they did) then people would call it a war crime, and trials would be held, and hangings and executions would abound.

If a psychologist with credentials from a top university does it... it becomes a treatment centre and everyone just lets it happen, and its regarded as "caring for the mentally ill."

WTF goes on in this world that anyone with a degree can suggest any level of insane or brutal activity, and people seem to accept it? Schrodinger suggests putting cats in boxes, and everyone marvels at his grasp og quantum mechanics. Pavlov and Skinner torture animals and its all good psychology?? Freud says everyone wants to f**k their own mother and no-one bats an eyelid? Israel uses techniques pioneered when it was a sound psychological method to beat left handed children and half the states think its a good idea???

I think I'm going to get a degree in psychology, so I can brutalize people under the pretences of science.

What you are talking about is method of containment so that violent mentally disordered people can be confined in locked wards to prevent harming people in the community. Various methods as you have described have been applied throughout history, such as restraints (eg straightjackets), drugs (chemical equivalent of straightjackets), padded cells, plus numerous therapies of diverse kind.

However the Judge Rosenberg Educational Centre is a special school for children and youths with moderate to severe learning difficulties, with methods of negative operant conditioning as an educational method. That is different from containment of the violent mentally disordered. As a method of course I do not support it, as it uses negative more than the positive conditioning (such as sweets and gold stars). It as we know uses electric shocks in a way that is unlawful in prison, etc. As such it is torture and a breach of human right, and we should campaign against this method.

There are established methods for teaching children with learning difficulties. If novel methods of special needs education be researched, then positive reinforcements should be used rather than negative ones. Skinner must turn in his grave if he saw his method of operant conditioning done in this way!

I once worked as a cleaner for a school for the multiply disabled (which included learning difficulties), and the school had no corporal punishment. By law corporal punishment was abolished anyway. Indeed the school did away with the concept of punishment, but if a child misbehaved, such as lost temper, they were wheeled out (they were wheel chair users) of the classroom to their bedroom to calm down for half an hour (bit like time out).

kreb1958,

I agree with you concerning those with mental retardation and learning difficulties, I said as much too (I've got learning difficulties); there's still violent individuals within the "school", and those are the ones I'm obviously speaking of (the extreme cases), those who're in the most comfortable environment at home yet still seriously harm themselves or others.

Therapy should always be used in proportion, obviously.

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We have another 3 weeks to make a stand.

We MUST speak through people that the world recognizes as experts.

Tony Attwood and Carol Gray are these people.

They are the experts that can make a stand and oppose this HORROR of an education center. AND they will be in BOSTON on Sept 28 and 29. Make them take this issue in to consideration when they make their presentation there!

Please, show you care for these kids that no way out. Do something. What if it was YOU being in there? What would you wish others would do to help you?

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Star

Don't say that unless you've been in that situation. People don't really know how they'd react until they're in that situation. I used to fight back against abuse in institutions. I fought back what I thought would be relentlessly. Then they gave me something that closed my throat up, noticed I was having that reaction, and left me to die. Someone who didn't work there was walking by and found me and saved my life. The next day they gave me the same stuff and told me they'd give me something to stop the reaction just as soon as I agreed to do what they said in other matters. I did what they said. And prior to that I'd fought them on everything. I don't think anyone really knows what they would do under torture until they're experiencing it.

Also, the Judge Rotenberg Center is a problem, in that it does these things pretty openly. But there are places that do much the same thing all over the place, pretty much in everyone's backyard. I wrote a post about it here. Not everyone uses the same torture devices used at JRC (although some do), and not everyone is as overt about the abuse as the JRC is, but the other places are no less problematic than the JRC. If people try to close only the JRC as if it's merely a bad apple, they're not going to solve the real problems here. Also, for anyone's interest, I wrote a post on Why Students Praise the JRC analyzing a video that they took off the web soon after I posted that. It got responses from ex-employees.

First off, the idea that these are all "extremely destructive individuals" is a lie told by the JRC. Many of them are only destructive in certain situations (such as being locked up or responding back to abuse), and many are shocked for such things as having funny looks on their faces. The "extremely destructive" thing is a cover they use.

Second off, looking at people in terms of being "extremely destructive" is a problem in itself. That's how I was looked at for a long time. Herb Lovett has a book called Learning to Listen that I would recommend to anyone with a serious interest in this. He gives all kinds of ways to respond to people who most people would classify as "extremely destructive," but he doesn't classify people quite in that manner either, and that's part of why his approach works. Being seen of as merely an "extremely destructive person" is incredibly dehumanizing and not likely to lead to a decrease in problem behavior, and if people think that it takes a huge cognitive capacity to sense being dehumanized, then people are wrong.

Torture is outlawed for a reason. There are all sorts of things that we do not do to people under any circumstances, and that are not considered "options", not even "options of last resort", in dealing with anyone. This would be one of them.

I imagine it depends on legislation. By taking on the JRC as an obvious target, its possible that legislation could be put in place preventing this sort of abuse more effectively than that which already stands. From that, the JRC would have to change its standard operating procedure, and hopefully those places which intend to be law abiding would then have to follow suit, or risk closure.

I suspect that the state/federal way that american law is produced and controlled might well complicate this matter though. I assume that if a federal law was introducing to say.. ban the use of these shock devices, that it would be applied countrywide, but if it were introduced in minnesota or california, then only that state would have to conform. So assumably the best thng to do is push for countrywide legislation, using the JRC as a prime example?

I don't know how to cite on wikipedia, but someone really needs to edit this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Center

No, that would just reinforce the idea that Aspies are violent. Instead, this should be dealt with in the way civilized societies deal with this kind of thing. The people responsible should be promptly arrested, the center closed, and Matthew Israel given the rest of his life in a small cell to think about what he's done, and be glad that we (unlike him) have the decency not to electroshock those we consider "violent."

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Star

Similar devices have have been vigourously opposed by National Consultative Committee on Animal Welfare in Australia

Here

I am happy at least I am living in the lucky country.

I'd just like everyone to know I put the first video up on facebook.

Thanks!

Did you also place a request for people to take part in the campaign and send emails to promote closing the Center down?

If not, PLEASE, add that info and urge people to participate!

Thanks again!! !

Star

If you have read this article and it bothers you, then please take action.

DON'T LET THIS TOPIC DIE... DON'T LET THESE KIDS SUFFER!! !

Please send emails, there is still time to make an impact!! !

Star