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gbollard
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22 Jan 2009, 7:57 pm

Children are impossible.

Case in point - this happened yesterday.

My boys were jumping on the trampoline - together - despite having been told not to.
I was hanging the washing out next to them.

Older boy jumped on the younger one's leg. Twice. (lots of tears).
So I told him to get off and let his brother jump by himself for a while.

The younger brother kept encouraging him back and he kept starting back but I kept saying... No... Not together.
Eventually I told the boys to swap.

Younger boy (5) would not get off. I lifted him off.
He had a tantrum on the grass.
Then he went and dismantled his cubby house - (remember that all this time I'm trying to hang out washing).

He carried the slide part of his cubby back to the trampoline.
I saw what was happening and said "don't put the slide on the trampoline"
He waited till I bent down to get another item from the basket - and started again.

I looked at him and said sharply - No.... DONT put that on the trampoline.

He looked directly at me and put it on.

This made his brother slip and fall - luckily not injuring himself.

After checking that his older brother was ok, I took the younger one by the hand and led him inside. I said... I guess you'll have to stay inside since you can't play outside nicely.

His older brother got bored now that nobody was trying to kill him and followed him inside.

No spanking nothing... Can someone explain to me how my younger son will learn from this?

Sorry if this seems to be going a little off topic - but I'm not really (I think)... It's still about discipline.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Jan 2009, 7:59 pm

gbollard wrote:

No... Sadly most things that parents do in most countries aren't strictly legal. We don't try to hurt him - just shock him.



Oh, so you are abusing your child and this is supposed to keep him from abusing the dog? This is disgusting! You don't deserve kids if you are going to do that any more than someone deserves a dog that treats it like that! You are no better! In fact you are much worse because you are supposed to be an adult. You should be ashamed.



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 22 Jan 2009, 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
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22 Jan 2009, 8:01 pm

Quote:
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
(Proverbs 13:24, NIV)

'Nuff said.


'Nuff said! :thumright:



slowmutant
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22 Jan 2009, 8:04 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
(Proverbs 13:24, NIV)
'Nuff said.

Just kidding. But as a precaution, strictly prohibit all forms of physical contact between your son and the cat! That means no touching the cat with any object whatsoever, no grabbing the cat, no picking it up, no petting, no touching with even one finger. If the cat is about to get itself into a dangerous situation, your son must be required to come call you, since pulling the cat out is prohibited. If he enjoys inflicting pain on others, there are BDSM dungeons he can visit after he turns 18. In the meantime, he'll have to be kept away from the cat. Sorry, that's the way it is.


Remember, "sparing the rod" does not always refer to phsyical violence. "The rod" can be a metaphor for any sort of punishment.



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22 Jan 2009, 8:04 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Oh, so you are abusing your child and this is supposed to keep him from abusing the dog? This is disgusting! You don't deserve kids if you are going to do that any more than someone deserves a dog that treats it like that! You are no better! In fact you are much worse because you are supposed to be an adult. You should be ashamed.


I'm sure he's not kicking him in the face or anything :? It's might not even be a big deal, just a slightly painful reminder not to kick the dog.

I got slapped, spanked, shoved, etc. I'm okay, and honestly? I did learn a lot from it.



NocturnalQuilter
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22 Jan 2009, 8:05 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
(Proverbs 13:24, NIV)
'Nuff said.

Just kidding. But as a precaution, strictly prohibit all forms of physical contact between your son and the cat! That means no touching the cat with any object whatsoever, no grabbing the cat, no picking it up, no petting, no touching with even one finger. If the cat is about to get itself into a dangerous situation, your son must be required to come call you, since pulling the cat out is prohibited. If he enjoys inflicting pain on others, there are BDSM dungeons he can visit after he turns 18. In the meantime, he'll have to be kept away from the cat. Sorry, that's the way it is.


All this does to the child is instill fear of the animal rather than respect.
Fail.



gbollard
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22 Jan 2009, 8:05 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
gbollard wrote:

No... Sadly most things that parents do in most countries aren't strictly legal. We don't try to hurt him - just shock him.

Oh, so you are abusing your child and this is supposed to keep him from abusing the dog? This is disgusting! You don't deserve kids if you are going to do that any more than someone deserves a dog that treats it like that! You are no better! In fact you are much worse because you are supposed to be an adult. You should be ashamed.


When you have perfectly behaved autistic children... I'll be interested to hear your methods.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Jan 2009, 8:05 pm

If we all had higher standards maybe animal abuse wouldn't happen in the first place? You should treat everyone with kindness, respect, and love, human or animal.



NocturnalQuilter
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22 Jan 2009, 8:07 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If we all had higher standards maybe this problem wouldn't exist in the first place?


Yeah- just like Asperger's.



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22 Jan 2009, 8:08 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
(Proverbs 13:24, NIV)

'Nuff said.


'Nuff said! :thumright:

Hmmm, by the time that was written, the term Child Abuse didn't exist, much less the term human rights, a lot of things differ culturally from today's western society and that time and culture, however it can be interpretated in different ways, to suit times, as of the discipline without the use of physical punishment.


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22 Jan 2009, 8:11 pm

I think it's a bit excessive to suggest that after one such incident the child needs counseling or is a potential future serial killer. On the other hand, I don't get why some here are objecting to the suggestion that the OP find another home for the cat, at least temporarily.

For one, it seems that the child is not fully comprehending the consequences of his actions. That's really not weird for a three year old at all, and given time and proper direction that's something he'll most likely learn. In the meantime, however, it's really not fair to the cat to leave him in the path of potential harm just because you know your son didn't really understand what he was doing, and wouldn't have done it if he had understood. That isn't protecting either the cat or the child. The child needs time and the right environment to learn this lesson in a way that his healthy for him, and not harmful to anyone or anything else. If you really worry that he might physically harm the cat again, then the cat doesn't belong in your child's environment. (I'm not saying get rid of the cat, just ask a friend to keep him for a while until you feel the two are going to be safe together again.)

For two, there's a real possibility that the cat has connected his pain and fear with your son. If he feels threatened by your son in the future, he may well not be as gentle. If the cat lashes back when he feels unsafe, it might be a really vivid lesson in consequences for your son, but it probably won't be a good one. You want your son to learn empathy for the cat, not learn to see the cat as a danger or something he fights with. Now, you did say that your cat is unusually gentle... I suppose all my point is is that in my experience even the most gentle animal will get very nasty if they're truly afraid, and a sixteen pound cat can cause waaay more damage than you might imagine.

In the end, only you know what the risk is of your son doing something like this again is, so I don't know how much value any of our opinions really have. But you're a parent, and your duty is to put your child's development and welfare above any of your other concerns (guilt over punishing him when you think he didn't mean it, fear of losing your beloved cat, etc). It would be great if you could do that while still protecting the cat, because it depends on you quite a bit too. Good luck with that, and I'm sure your concern alone will help your son learn this important lesson.



gbollard
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22 Jan 2009, 8:14 pm

Well strictly speaking discipline means to teach, not necessarily to hurt - though a lot of people don't know the difference.

Most times I teach only. I very rarely hit my children - and even then not hard unless they're doing something that is life threatening. (example - deliberately ignoring us and running onto a busy road). In that case, I consider any minor pain I inflict to be the lesser evil - certainly less than death which would be inflicted by an oncoming vehicle.

We only instigated the dog-harm retaliation policy a week or two ago and haven't had to use it much. When a reaction is absolutely guaranteed my son seems to let the matter drop. Of course, I want him to NOT want to harm the dog because he understands that the dog feels pain - not because he's afraid of retaliation - hence discipline (teaching).



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22 Jan 2009, 8:14 pm

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
All this does to the child is instill fear of the animal rather than respect.

Developing a phobia to dogs or cats, sounds like the ideal punishment. :twisted:


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gramirez
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22 Jan 2009, 8:15 pm

What did I miss? (OP "edited" the original post)


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Jan 2009, 8:17 pm

That's another thing. Cats often don't like toddlers much anyway. Won't your cat just run and hide under the sofa, far out of reach? He will find a good hiding place and you won't have to worry.



gbollard
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22 Jan 2009, 8:19 pm

gramirez wrote:
What did I miss? (OP "edited" the original post)


Sadly you missed WP alienating yet another person who simply wanted help.