First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Conversation Starters:

~Compliment the person on something they are wearing or have -- "What a beautiful necklace...where did you get it?" or "I love your hairstyle......who is your hairdresser?"

~Make a positive comment on something in the environment -- "I'm tickled I got a great deal on this blouse...did you find any sales anywhere?" or "These chips are great....what is your favorite snack here?"

Always make a POSITIVE comment first, then ASK a question.

If you just make a statement, people like yourself may not know how to respond to you. Give them something to answer by asking an open-ended question after you've made a friendly statement.

When a person responds, respond back. Conversation is as simple as tossing a ball back and forth. When someone responds (tosses you the ball), just say something back (toss back the ball). If they stop tossing back, see if you closed them off with a curt response. If so, then make another comment and ask another question so they'll know that you WANT to keep talking with them.

I think conversation comes hard to a lot of people because they think too hard about it. Just play ball with a person -- keep tossing back -- and you'll turn into a great conversationalist in no time. Practice on total strangers you'll probably never see again, like in line at the grocery store. Even if you say something stupid, it won't matter because they don't know you and you'll likely never see them again anyway, so no biggie. We all stick our foot in our mouths at some point -- it's just a fact of life.

Quite frankly, id prefer to avoid a case of athletes tongue . . .

This is a perfect example of what I call 'visual pun'. Sorry, off subject.

You remind me of my wife. You make it sound very easy. My problem is that when there are more than three or four people in the conversation with me, it can become overwhelming. Its as if people direct energy toward the person they are thinking about, and when this is tripled or quadrupled it becomes too much, when it is all being directed toward me at the same time. The center of attention is not one of my favorite hang outs. Of course I am not a good one to speak either because I do ok on one to one conversations most of the time, and I often don't have to worry about how to approach a person, because my intuition often gives me the words to say. And I am intensely bored by small talk, but I am starting use it as an ice breaker. And I won't compliment someone on their garment unless I find it really really really visually stimulating. Please don't take that wrong. I'm not talking about sexually. I'm not very good at faking emotional expression. I can't just paint a smile on my face when I meet someone unless I really am happy to see them, in which case the smile will appear there by itself. And smiles from other people light me up inside, and it bothers me when those smiles are fake, or were just put there because that is what one is supposed to do when meeting a new person. I usually feel it in the person when it's only painted there for show.

That's pretty clear. I have been trying to compare, or wondering if shutdown was anything like what I experience with hypoglycemia. I get very very sleepy, and feel very light headed, and communication becomes nearly impossible because word recall for names and nouns stops occurring, and it can seem confusing because it feels like what I need is sleep, but what usually cures it is eating protein. However I don't experience the suspended animation thing.

Am I wrong in perceiving there is a lot of [/i]assumed ease[i] in this post, about social communication and how it should be easy for others to find it as easy as you apparently do?

If so, the assumptions you are making about level of ease re verbal ball playing is a skill that many here do not have, or if they do have it - in my case because of hyper-verbal skills found in some ASD people, the way they throw the conversational ball back and forth is usually out of synch with the group in terms of content and because of altered ToM capacities. The other issue is that for me to do so requires ALL of my mental capacity because of the way my brain is wired. It will never come simply for me and it will NEVER be arrived at by way of a cessation or suspension of thinking or a minimisation of thinking. This post seems to miss the point - the skills I learn and have learned (now nearing 50) have all been arrived at by way of cognition. Your post seems to propose a suspension or minimisation of that is possible in order to reach fluid conversation???? Impossible, for many on the spectrum. You are actually applying non-ASD methodology to ASD people and that does not make sense here because the issue is that YES...we can ARRIVE at the same outcome (some social communication which can indeed improve with age and development) but the WAY WE GET THERE will of NECESSITY, be different. As is said over and over again, ASD people need to THINK HARD to achieve social competence. That is the way we arrive at it later in life, and even then, my capacity to deal with social reciprocity is a lot less than the average person I know. Your proposal to not think so hard about social exchange is anathema to me and to many who have an ASD dx actually, and it would leave me in total blank silence (as happens a lot.) Another person without an ASD would easily absorb your advice and may be able to apply it and loosen up and converse. We don't just have anxiety issues around people. Also, we have deficits in ability to read people intuitively and in the moment during the to and fro of social exchanges.

There is actually a core trait difference here and what you are proposing is inapplicable and erroneous in my case....Those on the spectrum tend for the most part to process social communication cognitively and intellectually. THAT IT THE ONLY WAY for some of us. Those who may not be on the spectrum actually intuit and are able to easily assume a lot about social communication and are able to do so with the kind of ease your post refers to. Now, in saying this, not all fall into this divide - but it may be worth considering here.

The other issue is that yes, all people "stick their foot in their mouths at some point." The issue is not that this happens...that is indeed human nature. Rather, the issue is the intensity and frequency with which it happens for people on the spectrum who are verbal (and remember, on this forum, not everyone has verbal language....) So, for example, a person might occasionally stick her foot in her mouth here and there. Once in a while, she may do so and be graciously forgiven. However, for me and for others I know with an ASD who are verbal............. In my case, I do it most times I am talking with people. I say something that offends or causes others to shudder, or I over-disclose or I say something others perceive as intentionally rude when I am just being ASD blunt and honest and I mean no harm. One example operates within the perameters of the social code and the other operates beyond them and outside of them.

So, one will get a reputation for being a pain in the butt for intentionally or unintentionally saying things that are offensive or out of keeping with the social code, while another who does it occasionally will be forgiven for the "occasional faux-pas." The occasional faux-pas will not be enough to cause others to find the individual offensive, whereas for the person who does it on each occasion or nearly every occasion that they converse will gain a "REPUTATION!! !...for being troublseome, difficult, crazy and/or rude." I know which camp I fall into, and from what you are expressing in this post, I wonder if you fall into a different camp than me on that score? I can refrain from doing so, but the amount of cognitive and intellectual energy required to do so is phenomenal. And of course (which is contrary to the advice given in your post) if I suspend my thinking and ease up during conversation and "go with the flow" the FOOT IN MOUTH INCIDENTS INCREASE at a DASTARDLY RATE THAT LEAVES ME with no-one to talk to because over time everyone has become an offended enemy! Tis true, honey bunny...tis true.......

Such is the life of the ASD person sometimes.

One also needs to be sure the advice given to ASD individuals is not advice more suitably applicable within a paradigm that has rather homogenised assumptions about a level playing field of intuited social skills and social behaviours and common social language at its foundation and base.

ps. the fact is, many individuals with an ASD cannot "toss back!"

Last edited by millie on 26 Mar 2010, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think your advice, while well-intentioned, is not very well-informed. It is near impossible for most of the people I know who have ASD diagnoses to simply "....just play ball with a person and you'll turn into a great conversationalist in no time" and "practice on total strangers." In fact, I think the mere thought of taking this kind of advice would create a very high degree of anxiety and stress in many of the people I know, and would actually lead to worse circumstances not better. As one very smart person has stated: "Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." If you really want to be supportive, and I believe you do, I suggest you do a lot more reading on these forums and elsewhere, and really try to get to know some of the people here and get to know the challenges they face before trying to offer advice on how to hold verbal conversations. I am trying to state this in the most friendly and constructive way I know how

Edit: removed cuss.

Last edited by DenvrDave on 27 Mar 2010, 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

I ditto DenvrDave.
My post above has my usual aspie bluntness. I hope I have not offended...but I refrain from editing it, as it stands as a good example of my rather emphatic and blunt style of "tossing back".

While I agree that there were a lot of problems with Fabulous Female's advice, the conversation as playing catch metaphor is a good one. When my younger brother had speech and language therapy and participated in a social skills group as a child, a lot of it focused on helping him unpack this metaphor and learn how to use it. Saying something but not asking a question or otherwise inviting participation from the other person is like catching a ball but not throwing it back, for instance. Not making any verbal response is dropping the ball. While all of this seems obvious to those of us who are older and more sophisticated, it really helped him. It made what seemed very abstract and confusing a lot more concrete.

My brain just won't let go of this question. How do I know that when people make use of idioms or symbolic language, that the literal meaning was not the intended meaning? I think in pictures, and I notice details that most miss, and I get overwhelmed by sensual stimulation that most don't notice, and I stim a lot, and I have short term memory problems, and difficulty staying focused on the same thing for long periods of time, and often feel socially inept, just like many folks here.

I don't know. Maybe it is a brain wiring issue. I was attending a training class for new computers that were being used at a place where we volunteer, and during a break, another of the attendees told me that working with this trainer was like trying to get a drink of water from a fire hydrant. That mental image was so hilarious that I could not stop laughing which probably upset the guy because he was really feeling frustrated. But I knew that what he was trying to tell me was that all he wanted to know is how to operate the new machine, and the trainer was giving him all of this other background information that he didn't care about. Of course on the other hand, I also understood why the trainer was doing this. This trainer person is a global thinker. He sees things in wholes, same as me, and all of this background information was given to explain the why of how the machine is operated. Some people need to understand the why to learn how to operate something, and others simply need to know what to do next.

But I swear to you guys that I learned all of this stuff, or I am self deceived. It is certainly not something that just came with the wiring for me. I went out and read all I could about MBTI and have observed behavior of people of varying types for years just because I needed some way to predict people's behavior, but why was I able to learn to do this, and Aspies are not, or are they not able? Maybe it is just brain wiring.

In all fairness I don't recall being laughed while growing up for always taking things literally. I got laughed at for a whole slew of other things, but not that.

No wonder I'm bad at small talk; I'm bad at ball sports too. Who'd ever thought that my motor skills would be required in conversation?

Seriously though, sometimes there's nothing I can respond with. My mind is blank. I try to buy time by umming and arrring, but usually the conversation stops right there.

Does anyone else notice the assumptions being made in the above quotes (i.e., prejudices)? I'd like to know since when did anyone gain the ability to know who (NT vs. Aspie) is better functioning, especially since the term "functioning" is one of the words in the English language that's the most open to interpretation (or misinterpretation).

What determines one's level of ability to function? How financially successful someone is? How popular he is? How good he is at what he does? What others say about him? Or is it what God knows about his character that determines how well he is functioning?

I hope I'm not sounding nasty by making my point, but don't you think comparing and rating the ability levels of functioning perceived within the NT verus Aspie cultures as being divisive (unhealthy for humanity as a whole) rather than holistic?

If the things that I wrote here, offend you, I apologize. I am also offended by this NT vs. Aspie mentality. I did not mean to project that attitude. I was responding to the idea that one could change one's own brain wiring. Sure we think we know that memory is accomplished by changing synapse pathways, but studies have also shown that there are periods in which certain brain development is laid down, and attempts to change that beyond that period, are difficult. Perhaps there are techniques whereby one could change one's brain wiring with extensive effort but it's not like it's a matter of thinking positive about the matter or something.

On the issue of NT verses Aspie, what is really going on here is ASD verses non ASD. It takes effort for each side to understand what life is like for the other, because each person has to be creative to find a way to relate the experience of the other to something they experience in themselves because there is nothing in themselves that is exactly like it. And actually this subculture conflict is not that unique. There are similar conflicts in society between people who are hearing impaired and those who are not, and another between people who are visually impaired and those who are not. Actually one could argue that there a similar conflict between those who are female and those who are not. But I find the practice of branding all non ASDs as neurotypical as offensive too. This implies that if one does not have an ASD then all is wonderful in the world for him. One can have many neurological issues with out having an ASD. We're all just people.

To make life easier, just assume that when someone says "better functioning" they automatically imply "better social functioning" ... that is what they mean. If you grant that the world is overwhelmingly NT, then you should allow that "normal" is NT, and therefore NT social interaction is "better" in that sense because of the quality of the communication.

I am dx'ed with As, and I must agree with Willmark here. I think this is my problem with this thread. It is polemical and immature in its pitting of polarities. It is, in essence, VERY black and white. It DOES serve as a useful thread in some ways - as it is an opportunity for ASD and non_ASD people to communicate and clarify. But the artificial paradigm of humans/AS/NT is a ridiculous one and in my view, simplifies and undermines the rich diversity that is a part of our humanity. I'm nearing 50 and it has taken me a lot of work and a lot of soul searching to get my head around the plurality of humanity and all its variations. My natural tendency is to analyse, compartmentalise, work out and try to pigeon-hole - that is what I do as an ASD person - BUT let's make no mistake the NT tag is actually a simplistic and artificial one. Diversity is the key to humanity. And that is what makes all things so brilliant and individual.

For myself, I am a woman, an "ASD" person, an artist, a writer, a public speaker, a mother, a recluse (except for special interest related activities), a nature lover, a meditator, a Catholic, a swimmer, a reader, an animal lover, a sibling, a daughter, a parent etc. I have an ASD but I share a lot of experiences with other humans who are not on the spectrum and who are also rich, diverse, complex and fascinating. At times, I shall use the "NT" tag as a convenience, but in reality, it is a restrictive label.

Life - by virtue of its nature - entails suffering and difficulty. All humans find life hard, and difficult, too. And that is how this thread can help - if we can learn to listen to others who are different to us and thereby identify and also find similarities. I'm much more interested in that, than in a mindset that adheres to a "chip on the shoulder" mentality...and I have seen that in myself at times, and in others with ASD's and others without ASD's.

I think the wisest lesson I can learn, as a woman who has difficulty with reading people - is to stay right away from embittered and toxic people whether they are on the spectrum or not. That is where so much of my interpersonal difficulty has lain - and that is what I have learned so much and continue to work on. That, and the wish to foster a more spiritual approach to life, myself, the universe and everything......

The bold part is hard to define sometimes since people in this personality group can hide their intent in a social scenario easily (save some spectrumites). I'll admit, Im in the embittered category most of the time, but its due to my inability to understand why some things dont work, and why id have to kiss someone's butt to get a job rather than just get the degree for it. Toxic people, if my interpretation is correct, are those who are just nasty and surround themselves with equally "negative" locals (online or otherwise) . . . they can change, but you'd have to go through a proverbial hell to do it, and even then its no guarantee. As for your last sentence, I think most people want that, but over 90% of the population is afraid of what they find, and the remaining 9% (given that the ASDs have hit the 1% marker) want to control that 90% with said fear. These days, i just say to myself, "We're a species in transition, and this X-thousands of years will likely be the roughest in our history . . . we dont know much and likely wont know much for said time frame. We must get over our self-centeredness and look at the bigger picture. We're nothing more than a molecule in a grain of sand in the ocean of the universe" (pardon the metaphor for those with interpretation issues . . . it means: We're so small/insignificant that to think we know it all is absurd beyond the point of madness).