First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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DenvrDave
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25 Apr 2010, 6:10 pm

I made friends recently with someone whom I think is on the spectrum, based on their communication style and other non-verbal cues, but I didn't say anything about autism spectrum disorders though I very much would have liked to ask them about it. I would like to have told my friend that I am informed about ASDs, I understand things like executive dysfunction, sensory overload, socialization challenges, etc., that I have several friends on the spectrum, and that I empathize/sympathize with people on the spectrum. However, I kept my mouth shut out of respect for this person's privacy. I would like to have told him that I'm a friendly NT with good intentions. But I didn't due to NT social conventions.

My question to WP members who are on the spectrum is, hypothetically if you met a random NT who acted friendly, how would you feel if the hypothetical NT started talking about neuro-diversity and ASDs? Would you be offended? Let me ask this somewhat differently, when I meet people who have obvious ASD traits, how can I, or even should I, communicate that I am a friendly sympathetic NT with good intentions without hurting anyone's feelings?

Edit: fixed grammar and spelling.



Last edited by DenvrDave on 25 Apr 2010, 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bee33
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25 Apr 2010, 7:08 pm

Maybe you could approach it obliquely, saying something like, "You remind me of someone I know." And then go on to describe the similarities. If they seem receptive,t hen you could go on to say this other person you were reminded of is on the spectrum.



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25 Apr 2010, 9:23 pm

DenvrDave wrote:
I made friends recently with someone whom I think is on the spectrum, based on their communication style and other non-verbal cues, but I didn't say anything about autism spectrum disorders though I very much would have liked to ask them about it. I would like to have told my friend that I am informed about ASDs, I understand things like executive dysfunction, sensory overload, socialization challenges, etc., that I have several friends on the spectrum, and that I empathize/sympathize with people on the spectrum. However, I kept my mouth shut out of respect for this person's privacy. I would like to have told him that I'm a friendly NT with good intentions. But I didn't due to NT social conventions.

My question to WP members who are on the spectrum is, hypothetically if you met a random NT who acted friendly, how would you feel if the hypothetical NT started talking about neuro-diversity and ASDs? Would you be offended? Let me ask this somewhat differently, when I meet people who have obvious ASD traits, how can I, or even should I, communicate that I am a friendly sympathetic NT with good intentions without hurting anyone's feelings?

Edit: fixed grammar and spelling.


From my edge of the spectrum perspective, I'm thinking I might not mind. Depends on the situation. Who's saying it, where and when, and how they say it. Though maybe that's my NT traits as far as caring about the who and how.

But, a few years ago when I didn't knew a lot less about autism (and no notion of a spectrum) I would have been puzzled.


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Newday
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25 Apr 2010, 11:06 pm

Wow! So many different replies. I gather from them all that sympathy is understanding how a person feels while empathy is feeling how the person feels.

No wonder I have so much trouble with these concepts. I have always felt like there are two people in me. One who is logical and well advanced intellectually and another is emotionally a child. Though I do understand that these are simply traits of my own personality, I feel like there is a huge gorge between my intellegence and my emotions.

I have learnt to react as if I am feeling a certain way when I am totally indifferent to the situation. Even when I don't express an emotion (usually because I don't really feel one) in certain situations, people tend to think that I am 'coping well'. I feel like I want to scream, "I'm not coping at all! This it totally beyong me."

So my next question to both AS and NTs is:
Do you express emotions that you do not feel in order to 'fit in'?



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26 Apr 2010, 4:28 am

Newday wrote:
Do you express emotions that you do not feel in order to 'fit in'?


I think I do that yes...

not sure wether I am in the NT or AS category by the way, I want my own category



bee33
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26 Apr 2010, 5:03 pm

Newday wrote:
I have always felt like there are two people in me. One who is logical and well advanced intellectually and another is emotionally a child.

Yes, that's how I feel as well. I fall apart emotionally when someone is mean to me (or sometimes just from feeling overwhelmed) even though I think I am better able to understand the situation logically than the next person. (And then it also makes me upset that they are being illogical!)

I wanted to add another thing to the empathy/sympathy discussion. I had an AS expert explain it to me like this: if you see someone get hit by a car and get hurt, you feel terrible for their pain. That's sympathy. But you might not be able to understand why they would have run out into the street in the first place. That's (a lack of) empathy.
Newday wrote:
So my next question to both AS and NTs is:
Do you express emotions that you do not feel in order to 'fit in'?
No, I wouldn't know how. If I try it just comes off as false.



Bones37
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26 Apr 2010, 10:26 pm

Newday wrote:
So my next question to both AS and NTs is:
Do you express emotions that you do not feel in order to 'fit in'?


Hmm... No!
I don't think I could, I'm not sure that I can call up emotions at will, and even. I'd be happy with just being able to express the emotions that I do feel, let alone faking it just to fit in...

The example of the kid running into the street and getting hit by a car, the difference between empathy and sympathy, I think is a good one. Sympathy relates compassion and mercy - it should lead to you doing something (I think). Whereas Empathy, I think, is more related to feeling the emotion and knowing why that is the right emotion. People would say I can empathize with you, meaning I know what you are going through, or I can sympathize with you, meaning I'm sorry for what you are going through.

Strangely I always thought I was more empathetic than sympathetic, I can feel the emotions of others - more than being compassionate about them. But I don't understand these emotions, so I guess I'm not truly empathetic either???



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27 Apr 2010, 12:38 am

I'm not sure that I explained about the 'faking' emotions very well. It is how I have learnt to look and speak like I am feeling the emotion rather than actually feeling it. It took me a long time to even realize I was doing it. Now I am aware of when I do it but sometimes can't stop it because it's an ingrained habit. I now have to make a conscious effort not to do it. It is difficult to work out how I am feeling because of this 'fake' reaction. Often I am not feeling anything but I am expected to so out comes the mask. It reminds me of those theatre masks of a happy and a sad face. Which leads me to another, related, question.

Do other people have times when they are just not feeling any emotion? Is that an AS thing or unique to me?



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27 Apr 2010, 2:43 am

Newday wrote:
I'm not sure that I explained about the 'faking' emotions very well. It is how I have learnt to look and speak like I am feeling the emotion rather than actually feeling it.


Yes, I would say that is about the same for me. Maybe the word is mimicking rather than faking. But not too sure because I am dutch, but faking seems more conscious action.

Newday wrote:
It took me a long time to even realize I was doing it. Now I am aware of when I do it but sometimes can't stop it because it's an ingrained habit. I now have to make a conscious effort not to do it. It is difficult to work out how I am feeling because of this 'fake' reaction. Often I am not feeling anything but I am expected to so out comes the mask. It reminds me of those theatre masks of a happy and a sad face. Which leads me to another, related, question.

Do other people have times when they are just not feeling any emotion? Is that an AS thing or unique to me?


To answer your related question: yes. I had that for instance when my grandfather died and I felt very guilty about it. Its not that I didn't care but I wasn't feeling emotion. I don't know if its is an AS thing, that is a matter of interpretation I think.



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28 Apr 2010, 3:36 pm

MONKEY wrote:
Oooh this looks fun.
A question to NTs:
do you notice even the mildest of aspies, do they seem not right to you even if they're really subtle???


I don't even think that way. I don't think of Aspies as not right. I think of them as fascinatingly different. I'm extremely quirky in my own ways, so I might not be the best "NT" to answer.

Honestly there are a LOT of variations in how people think. My husband is very quirky and unique but all he has is dyslexia and ADHD. He approaches life and problems in unique and interesting ways.

I really like people. I find them fascinating. I like people with unique and quirky minds. When I meet Aspies I am delighted to have an opportunity, if they are willing, to get to know a new and interesting person.

That's not why I'm here. I'm here as a mom of Aspies and maybe a someone with PDD-NOS...it depends on who you ask.

I love your thread idea.

Kiley


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Kiley
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28 Apr 2010, 4:32 pm

I do express emotions that I do not feel all the time. I think it's expected. It's a kind of social lying, like saying that someone's hair looks fine when I really don't like it but don't want to hurt their feelings.

If I'm sad or upset about something I will try to behave cheerfully at work or to strangers I may meet. They don't want to know my troubles. To people I'm close to, like good friends or my husband I'll not try to hide that sort of thing. Now if my husband had a really hard day at work I might fake being happy, and then tell him about whateve was bothering me later when he's feeling better himself.

NTs are affected by the feelings of other people. Expressing sadness, anger, etc will make them uncomfortable. There are times that it's appropriate, and times that it's not. The check out clerk at the supermarket doesn't need to know that I'm mad or sad about something that has nothing to do with her. She's working and needs to focus on her job and she's probably a stranger. I don't want to spoil her day, so I keep it to myself. I'll usually be more free with happy feelings, but if people are sad (like at a funeral, or during a tragedy) I won't try to break their mood because it's a healthy part of the grieving process. If someone is a bit sad I might try to cheer them up, but it kind of depends on the situation.

I guess that is complicated. It's not something I have to think about all the time. Most of the time it just kind of runs on auto pilot. Sometimes there are particularly difficult situations I need to think through, but the bulk of the mental work is "intuitive" which just means I do it quickly and unconsciously. I can see why my sons are baffled by it. One of them is reading over my shoulder. He just sighed and walked off.

Kiley



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28 Apr 2010, 4:38 pm

Do other people have times when they are just not feeling any emotion? Is that an AS thing or unique to me?[/quote]

To answer your related question: yes. I had that for instance when my grandfather died and I felt very guilty about it. Its not that I didn't care but I wasn't feeling emotion. I don't know if its is an AS thing, that is a matter of interpretation I think.[/quote]

It may be different for you, but it's not unusual at all to feel "numb" after a tremendous loss. It's also not uncommon at all to feel guilty for feeling numb. It's a very common thing for people who are grieving about a loss to talk about. It might be a survival thing that allows people to cope with the changes. Usually strong feelings come later, often in waves. People will say "I'm just feeling numb. So-and-So meant a lot to me. I know it'll hit me later. Right now I just need to get through this." This=funeral arrangements, changes to living arrangements etc.

Kiley



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28 Apr 2010, 4:47 pm

MONKEY wrote:
Oooh this looks fun.
A question to NTs:
do you notice even the mildest of aspies, do they seem not right to you even if they're really subtle???


If the question is "Do I notice they are Aspies/ASD" then the answer is YES. I can usually spot an Aspie from a mile away. It's the "do they seem not right" that I have to say NO to.

I don't think it's as obvious to most people, I'm just *really* good at that kind of thing and live in an Aspie world. I think a lot of time people just think "geek" about the really high functioning Aspies. I don't think people pick up on it as a "disability."



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29 Apr 2010, 2:32 am

Kiley wrote:
Do other people have times when they are just not feeling any emotion? Is that an AS thing or unique to me?


To answer your related question: yes. I had that for instance when my grandfather died and I felt very guilty about it. Its not that I didn't care but I wasn't feeling emotion. I don't know if its is an AS thing, that is a matter of interpretation I think.[/quote]

It may be different for you, but it's not unusual at all to feel "numb" after a tremendous loss. It's also not uncommon at all to feel guilty for feeling numb. It's a very common thing for people who are grieving about a loss to talk about. It might be a survival thing that allows people to cope with the changes. Usually strong feelings come later, often in waves. People will say "I'm just feeling numb. So-and-So meant a lot to me. I know it'll hit me later. Right now I just need to get through this." This=funeral arrangements, changes to living arrangements etc.

Kiley[/quote]

I am pretty sure I wasn't feeling numb. I just deal with it differently, since I know this I don't feel guilty anymore. It has probably nothing to do with AS, its just weird me :)



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29 Apr 2010, 7:47 pm

question for anyone:

awkward dilemma.
due to utter social ineptitude (and a general proclivity for befriending men more easily than women) i sometimes find myself in a situation where i've inadvertently led someone on. i've finally figured out that people often feel they're connecting with me when i'm feeling nothing. (and, sometimes, feeling like a jerk for feeling nothing.)

how can i correct this? how can i make it plain that i have zero romantic or physical interest in a guy, while still being authentic to myself (rather than avoiding, claiming i'm seeing someone, etc) and without coming across as rude? how do you - politely - express unavailability even when single?

i'm not looking for a "line" to use. i can't muster up that sort of thing. i'm looking for a way to be sincere but not terribly dismissive.

(if this is better off in the "love and dating" section, i'll move it .. but i thought NT input would be really helpful here - my instinct, which i'm trying to learn to quell, is to just blurt out "i'm not interested" or "leave me alone" or something equally terrible)


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Kiley
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30 Apr 2010, 2:31 pm

katzefrau wrote:
question for anyone:

awkward dilemma.
due to utter social ineptitude (and a general proclivity for befriending men more easily than women) i sometimes find myself in a situation where i've inadvertently led someone on. i've finally figured out that people often feel they're connecting with me when i'm feeling nothing. (and, sometimes, feeling like a jerk for feeling nothing.)

how can i correct this? how can i make it plain that i have zero romantic or physical interest in a guy, while still being authentic to myself (rather than avoiding, claiming i'm seeing someone, etc) and without coming across as rude? how do you - politely - express unavailability even when single?

i'm not looking for a "line" to use. i can't muster up that sort of thing. i'm looking for a way to be sincere but not terribly dismissive.

(if this is better off in the "love and dating" section, i'll move it .. but i thought NT input would be really helpful here - my instinct, which i'm trying to learn to quell, is to just blurt out "i'm not interested" or "leave me alone" or something equally terrible)


That stuff is just awkward for everybody! It sounds like you're doing as well as about anybody I've ever known. When I wasn't interested in dating I might try to casually bring it up if I thought the friend showed any signs of being interested. Probably a lot of the time I thought they were interested they were just being nice, or were interested but not romantically. When I met my husband I tried that. I told him about my three very special children figuring that he'd run off. I told him how I just wasn't interested in ever dating again, and that I just wanted to have a nice life for the kids and I without drama. It seemed to egg him on. He wasn't rude or pushy, but he was always there, and helpful. When my car wouldn't start he had jumper cables. I figured the kids would scare him off, but nope, not even that.

Now I'm really glad that he hung in there. I've never been happier in my life. He's a great guy and extremely good for my kids.

You never know, one of those interested guys could turn out better than you expect. There is nothing wrong with staying single, but sometimes life has surprises.

Kiley