what exactly separates worldly WPers from the hermits?

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There are many factors, it's not like there's one big "IT". This thread has had me thinking about the Aspies I know and I've come to two major factors.

1. Many Aspies are simply lower functioning or have higher support needs which may make them appear to some people to be less successful compared to the general population. In reality they seem to lead quite a successful, happy, healthy, normal life as long as they have the right support from family etc. These people are in contrast to the more independent Aspie.

2. Out of these more independent Aspies, some are relatively successful, too. I think there's a difference in whether the person is a Type A or Type B. Or in other words it's just as lotusblossom said, about "cares" and "care nots". Unfortunately I'd have to identify as one of the "cares". Usually such people have had to experience a lot of trauma or hurtful experiences for whatever reason, and get into a pattern where they become quite focused on hurtful experiences, as well as fairness and equality issues for Aspies. These are the Aspies who see themselves as an oppressed minority, when in reality they are a minority of all Aspies. I have still met a lot of Aspies like this and feel I fit in that category./

As to what genetics lead to a boyfriend, all it can take sometimes are two X chromosomes and having at least vaguely the "right" body type. (Even though I was considered ugly by a lot of people, my appearance managed to attract guys for a very short period in my life. Only ever really dated one although another guy talked me into saying we were going out even though nothing really happened between us and we only once or twice interacted in that extremely short time period, he just liked to collect women, especially vulnerable ones he could take advantage of.) Thing is, most autistic women (who have a higher rate of getting into relationships than autistic guys) only end up in abusive or exploitative relationships or getting taken advantage of. And I am no exception, my passivity and inability to avoid going along with nearly anything got me into some awful situations. I'd rather have just not dated. And besides that I'm gay, so having dateda guy isn't really appealing to me.

As to how I handle being unable to find anyone of my preferred gender... sometimes it really gets to me and sometimes it doesn't. I've got virtually no drives in that area at the moment, possibly due to hormonal imbalance (I have physical signs of one). So right now mostly what I'd want in a partner is the companionship and the sense of having a stable and intimate relationship with someone. But even though I'd ideally like that, I'm not desperate for it. And I don't really see how it could happen, anyway, considering I don't know anyone I'd be interested in that way, and I am not in a situation where I'd meet new people. I'm also far less conventionally attractive than I used to be (no longer have a figure, hairier) so the odds of initial attraction are lower.

So I guess the genes for not caring might be the same ones that are causing something very similar to premature menopause, if that's genetic.

Date Bait game topic

The only men that have ever been attracted me me were the chasers/collectors of women that Auntie and Anbuend spoke about. Useless junk, they were. I used tro be ashamed of it but I know now my naivete was a factor. It just took me longer to see the light. I admire other women on here for realizing much earlier than I did of the problems of AS women and dating. There was no Web and no feedback about this years ago, and had to figure everything out by trial and error.

Hooray for sites like WP!!

I think this nails it for me also. When I was married I was doing much better at handling things, and had a job, husband, kids, etc. Now I have the kids and the job and some friends instead of the husband. With the sort of husband I had, I now have space for several friends he was a very demanding man. But I am handling things much worse without him here to filter for/define me. Being the only adult in the home is excruciating for me.

I think a lot of my problem right now is serious depression from my divorce. I recently was evaluated for clinical depression, anxiety and ptsd. I also had bloodwork done on my thyroid, and that came back whacked out, so its possible thats where the depression is coming from. In any case, I am majorly overwhelmed right now and have been for the last year.

what kind of stamina?

I consider myself relatively successful for the following reasons:
(I should however first note that if I do have AS it is relatively mild - I normally come out as borderline on tests and am undiagnosed).

1) High intelligence and good time organisation skills mean that I have never had problems in school regarding the work and have ended up with high grades. Going to an extremely small village primary school from 4-8 also probably helped as very small numbers of pupils meant the only other one in my year had to become my friend!

2) Coming from a middle class family, that although authoritarian, values education and has encouraged reading and further education (although certainly not 'pushy' parents - I was generally left free to make my own way).

3) The luck to end up in academia where difference are tolerated, people skills are not necessary (unless you want to progress to the top) and being good at your work is enough to get on reasonably well.

4) The accumulated experience to realise (after a failed marriage and problems with friends) that I am best off on my own with a few good, but not particularly close friends who accept me for who I am. I have in the past desperately wanted friends/relationships and this has invariably led to unhappiness and loneliness (which is basically just the state of wanting more social interaction than you have). Now I do not get lonely because the social interactions I get with work colleagues (who I get on with but who do not interfere in my life) and meeting up occasionally with old friends who know me well, plus one good friend more often is sufficient for my social needs. I am also a member of a social activity group, and although I am always on the edge of the group, I am happy to be there in my more sociable moods and pleased to be accepted by them - I think this is partly something that comes with age, as I still find people my own age (early 30s) difficult to get on with (with the exception of work colleagues and my old friends), but older people, particularly those who have not been so lucky in life are much more open-minded and tolerant. However, I have been lucky to always find someone who appreciates me to a certain extent at each phase in my life, even though the majority usually havent - so I haven't been completely alone.

5) I am lucky to be in a period of relative stability in my life - I have spent years in the past being severely depressed, but have been lucky enough to come out of the last one, have an ideal job come up exactly when I needed it and have had no particularly stressful events happen in the past 18 months or so - of course this is no guarantee for the future and in a few years time I could find myself in the local psychiatric hospital again, with no job and no friends, but am prepared to enjoy what I have for the moment and in fact consider my life better than that of most neurotypical people on a day to day (not considering the past or future) basis.

Of course, there are still things that are not perfect - I spend quite a lot of time feeling scared (a generalised dread which seems to have no obvious source), depressed because I have no real dreams in life anymore or anxiously obsessing about things, but the latter a lot less than when I was younger. I also realise that my decision to be alone, although better than any other possibility, is not what I ever wanted before - when younger I wanted a partner and family and have decided I am better off without these simply because I cannot cope with the need to compromise and consider the needs of others ( I end up both resentful and guilty, both emotions I cannot deal with well), or with the extra anxiety that comes with worrying about others and trying to second guess them all the time, or with the unpleasantness that comes with a physical relationship. These are issues that cannot be resolved and so I have chosen what I consider to be the best option - not the most perfect one, and yes I do feel a little sad that I have decided that I am better off without what most people consider as standard, but that is the way it is.

p.s. I should also mention that I am slim and fit due to my slight exercise obsession and relatively attractive - in an ideal world this should not make any difference whatsoever, but according to a lot of research it does, so imagine this has helped people to 'subconsciously' like me more than they would have done otherwise.

you are one of the lucky ones. count your blessings every day. to the thankful comes more to be thankful about, one of the universal laws.



another thing to be thankful for. it is a real burden to be both addled and unattractive. each one alone is a heavy but bearable load, but both together makes one feel like the weight of atlas is upon one.

I consider myself successful in some areas and a failure in others.

If you want to look at income, I'm doing pretty well. When it comes to social interactions, I often feel isolated and lonely so that ain't so great. Feeling fulfilled in creative work... well, that comes and goes.

ON SUCCESS AT WORK

I think I am pretty successful in work due to many factors. I tend to take responsibility for my actions and decisions. When I do a job, I am conscientious about doing it well and doing it better than expected. I don't always succeed, but I succeed more often than I fail. Also I have been lucky. I have a friend who is better at social networking than I am and he has helped me get jobs I could not have gotten on my own. But I have also worked hard at doing the best job I could. I guess a major factor here is that I tend to have high expectations of what is required for a job and if I don't meet them, I get very anxious. Maybe the boss or client's expectations are not so high, but because I work to meet MY expectations, I usually exceed everyone elses.

My parents gave me a lot of freedom and encouraged creative and critical thinking. I had the advantage of a highly scientific father and a very artistic mother. Their expectations were high so that is what I learned was appropriate. But they were not concerned with conventional worldly success. What I learned from them was that it was important to be yourself, think for yourself and do work that you could feel proud of. My parent have never been wealthy and I certainly have no intention of being wealthy myself. All I'm concerned with is being secure.

I think a major reason why I have been able to do well in work is that I have always worked for small companies where there were not a lot of corporate rules. I usually end up being the company eccentric and there are times when my eccentricities are more tolerated than necessarily admired. But I get away with being eccentric because the quality of my work overshadows my more annoying traits and because I work for small companies, there are only one or two people I have to answer to. In a big corporation I would run afoul of the rules and regulations on a daily basis, but in a small company, no one has bothered to write down a set of rules so I am less likely to break them.

Also I get anxious. Most of my working life, I have been afraid I was about to be fired. I am very independent and hate the idea of being supported so I have worked hard to keep the jobs I get. This means I suffer somewhat in that I don't always feel like I can be myself, but I guess I've found an adequate balance between doing work that bores me and getting to do fun stuff.

ON SOCIAL SUCCESS

I am very successful at living alone and have done so for quite some time. I took a long time before I moved from home (I think a long time growing up helped me a lot) but once I was living on my own, I couldn't conceive of having to live with another person. I like the quiet and solitude of having my own place.

But I regret that I have let friends slip away and I have a great deal of difficulty making new friends. I some times take classes, hoping to meet new people, but when I do, I am terrified of extending these contacts beyond the scope of the class. I am currently taking a class and I would like to interact with the people who run the workshops, but I just don't know how to do that.

I can't seem to get beyond a feeling that people only tolerate me and would be happier if I were not around. There is much evidence against this point of view, but still it's hard to accept that I am wanted. One co-worker invites me to parties but I have yet to attend one. She is an extrovert and the prospect of dealing with all her friends terrifies me. Even with my closest friends, I feel I can't ask to visit them, but rather must be invited. I just don't want to imposed myself on them.

ON CREATIVE SUCCESS

On the creative front, I may never be successful enough. I take photographs, I write, I make films. When I was younger and had less skill, I became deeply demoralized because my creative work did not have that glowing aura of wonderfulness that some young artists work has. I wasn't an Orson Wells. I think, especially in the collaborative arts like film making, I did not have the self confidence to demand that others work to achieve my vision. This meant that my films were blunted and muted from the "too many cooks" problem. And anyway, my film making vision was pretty lame to begin with.

As I've gotten older, I have a clearer, more complete idea of what I am trying to do with a particular film or photograph and so I can find a way to achieve that goal a little more easily. I made a short documentary last year which achieved what I wanted. I am currently in post on a film I recently shot that seems to be coming very close to what I had originally envisioned when I wrote it a year ago. If anything, I feel less sure of myself when it comes to requesting people do what I want, but I am much more sure of myself when it comes to seeing what I want and being able to communicate that vision to others. Age and experience really helps here.

ON SUCCESS IN GENERAL

I guess a key factor in whatever success I have is that I am extraordinarily stuborn. I keep attacking problems until I feel I have gotten what I want out of them. I can focus for long periods of time and work through a problem long after most people would have given up in boredom or frustration. Even when I am not actively working on a project, it's there in the back of my head slowly churning away. I think out problems in the background and once I attack them again, I usually find I have the solutions I need. Here is one of the great advantages to having an obsessive/compulsive personality.

I tend to set personal goals and it really doesn't matter what other people think; I work on them until I satisfy myself. There is a route I frequently take while biking. I decided to add a difficult hill that was about 3/4 of a mile to this route to give myself a better workout. When I first started, half way up the hill, I wanted to give up and turn around, but I just kept going. Later I decided to bike from downtown L.A. to the top of Mt. Wilson. The climb is over one mile in elevation and over 18 miles of uphill riding. Half way up, I really wanted to give up, but I just kept going and got to the top of the mountain.

What occurred to me when I did that was something deep in the way I live my life is: if you have trouble going up a hill, go up a mountain instead. If your desire to give up kicks in about half way through a project, just work on bigger projects and even if you do give up, you will do so much further along than had you worked on a small project.

Ultimately I think when I am successful, it is because I answer mostly only to myself. Yes I have a boss that gives me assignment, but I do those assignments to a level of quality I expect of myself and that seems to put me far ahead of many around me.

I have been lucky in getting work in areas I am good at and enjoy working in. But people seem to want to hire me because I do these things well. And I guess I do them well because I am genuinely interested in the work.

I'm lucky because I'm fairly intelligent. But I know intelligent people who have not been successful in their lives, so intelligence isn't everything. But I will say, it helps.

LAST THOUGHTS AND THEN I'LL SHUT UP

I guess I'm successful in the areas I am particularly interested in. I have high expectations for my own work and I stubbornly pursue a goal until I am satisfied.

If I boil it all down, I guess I am successful because I do all these things for myself, not for others.

Why fight it , I say embrace your inner loner, I only got the diagnosis after a (severe) mental break down for what ever reasons I did not tell the psychologist I was having breakdown so when I (eventually) fessed up they told me to go see a neurologist (My co existing condition was brain damage ) thankfully it's almost all taken care of : and I will be back at work.



www.normandoidge.com -

Not sure if it's the standard line they drawl when psychologists give the diagnosis's or perhaps just them (husband and wife team) quote: I am a sensitive person (wasn't feeling to sensitive at that time I can tell you ) and I should try to lighten up on myself , they also told me I should go work for myself . So I am going to take head of their advise and do just that , luckily for me my special interest requires little contact with the public, allows no hoper uneducated people like myself a chance of middle class success , only problem is it's a rather dangerous job if you can believe wikipedia the "career" I'm looking at your more than 6 times more likely of death than those in the general population. Scary thing is I'm not sure if I can handle another knock to the head (head injuries are quite common in that "profession".)

Last edited by aussiebloke on 26 May 2010, 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

outside of boxing, what kind of profession are you referring-to that has that high rate of head injury? enquiring minds want to know.

Even though I'm unemployed right now due to the bad economy, I consider myself a worker bee. I can get along ok enough to do my work but, I haven't really had a very active social life for a few years now. I used to have a few friends related to my special intrest in RPG (Role-Playing Games). They've moved away or gone on to other things. Sometimes I feel ashamed of my special interest because most adults my age have out grown it. I'm into Online RPGs now but, I would never talk to anyone at work about it.

In my case, I'm married but he's more screwed up than I am

And I've always gotten good starts but messed it up - like did great in school academically - WAY more credits than needed to graduate, etc but got in big trouble socially and nearly didn't graduate. Went to college - aced the exams and had great promise and all these good academics but couldn't deal with the campus. I got lost, and I couldn't eat in the cafeteria for several reasons - afraid to go alone and the smell and the clanging sound was unbelievably disorienting. I never told people that at the time, just went home as a failure and got disowned by the family for being a loser and dropping out of college.

Taught myself programming, got decent jobs and worked 10x harder than anyone else (with that over focus and over drive) so that won me acclaim in some ways, but didn't get me more money and did hurt my health. At each job I had social problems all of the time - was overly friendly with no boundaries as a way to ingratiate myself (I thought) and as a way to coast by because I can't remember people so I just am super friendly to EVERYONE and no one feels left out. It's excrutiatingly exhausting and I got sick - alot. ALOT.

I had lots of run ins with coworkers, was labeled "confrontational" and a "troublemaker" for being honest. Couldn't play the political game at all and would go on to another job.

Now I work from home for myself and I'm really getting close to being a total hermit. I'm the healthiest I've ever been in my adult life - so this is proof that being the Real Me is much, much healthier. Just not enough energy to keep the body going AND keep that fake force field in place for the outside world.

Their social drive. The drive to get out there, and do things.

I was thinking about this topic again the last few days and I realized that apart from just possessing an inner drive to accomplish, I have another difference, which I think puts me in the "worldly" minority: I have relatively little hyper-sensitivity for an Aspie. I think sensitivity causes many, if not most of us to stay home. I don't have much of a problem with sound, light, or crowds; it's just general chaos or too much overall stimulation that can get to me.

I may have tended not to be a hermit, because I can tolerant and sometimes even enjoy all the sights and sounds of a carnival, but as long as I can feel in control of myself. Much like Willard always points out, Aspies want to feel in control. If I can take a management position, travel abroad, etc and feel that I can control myself and my immediate environment, then I'm fine, but as soon as soon as I have to confront many stressors and/or feel like PART of the crowd and that I am getting pushed and shoved, then I get overwhelmed, and then panic or shut down.

When I was a department store manager, there were just too many things I had no control over; there were too many urgencies and I had to quit. Now, as a teacher, I feel in control of myself and my class and I'm happy doing it.

I checked forman in charge of the worker bees, because even though I feel like I've come such a long way, I still have a long way to go to the top. I think the key to success is talent, and choosing to follow a path that you will love traveling. I've always been a goal setter and I'm constantly thinking about the next few years (or more) ahead.