Question for NTs about how you think

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Ganondox
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28 Jan 2012, 8:23 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

For me, anxiety takes the form of a physical sensation, like flutterings in my abdomen and faster heart rate, but maybe that is more like nervousness. I am not sure what feeling is anxiety, but I know for sure that none of the possible feelings associated with it come with verbal thoughts. Or any other thoughts either. They are just bunches of physical sensations.

I'm pretty sure that's how most people feel anxiety.

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Verdandi
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28 Jan 2012, 8:33 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

Is the voice of the internal narrative the same voice that speaks to a person negatively when a person has an anxiety disorder or maybe depression, like telling the person that she is worthless and unlovable, or like telling the person that a specific bad thing is going to happen if she does not perform an OCD ritual?

I have never really understood what people meant when they said that they had intrusive thoughts. Are the intrusive thoughts created by this internal narrative voice? It makes sense to me that they would be, but I am only guessing. I have never had the intrusive thoughts myself. Can someone enlighten me on this?

For me, anxiety takes the form of a physical sensation, like flutterings in my abdomen and faster heart rate, but maybe that is more like nervousness. I am not sure what feeling is anxiety, but I know for sure that none of the possible feelings associated with it come with verbal thoughts. Or any other thoughts either. They are just bunches of physical sensations.

I have intrusive anxiety-induced thoughts, but they're often images of how things can go wrong, or may have already gone wrong, that I can't seem to banish.

Mostly, anxiety is a physical sensation. What you wrote is how I described it to a psychologist last October.

Tollorin
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28 Jan 2012, 9:45 pm

ediself wrote:

Ganondox wrote:

For those who claim to think in concepts is there even a minor, subtle sensory feeling?

I want to know this too... my brain is starting to overheat here, trying to visualize what a "concept" is

I talking more like pure thoughts, abstract concepts. But right after it go through a verbal filter who try to translate it in words, so maybe it's only part of verbal thoughts overall.
@Ganondox: Surelly you're very strong in mathematics you must be familiar with what I call "conccepts thinking", this is the thing before you put it verbally when you think of highly abstract things, I think... Like you said it's not easy to describe way of thinkings, maybe I just put it because I've seen "vebal, spatial, concepts" somewhere before and I only interpret it through my experiences.

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Ganondox
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28 Jan 2012, 10:27 pm

Tollorin wrote:

ediself wrote:

Ganondox wrote:

For those who claim to think in concepts is there even a minor, subtle sensory feeling?

I want to know this too... my brain is starting to overheat here, trying to visualize what a "concept" is

Once you linked it to math I sort of get what your saying, as I seem to spend quite a bit of time trying to verbalize mathematical concepts.

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ValentineWiggin
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29 Jan 2012, 12:22 am

A concept is exactly that.
Words and imagery are representations of concepts- very useful when communicating (if the concept is accurately reflective, and interpreted by both parties)
but why would my brain need to communicate with itself?

No, I don't experience any sort of sensory stimulation when thinking-
I see a therapist for several things, anxiety among them, and it's not a physical sensation.

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Ganondox
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29 Jan 2012, 12:25 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

A guess there is bit of need for me to communicate with myself because I'm trying to think of how to make these concepts sharable, and in order to elaborate on it to develop more of the theory.

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Verdandi
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29 Jan 2012, 12:42 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

I see a therapist for several things, anxiety among them, and it's not a physical sensation.

You don't experience physical sensations with anxiety?

That's interesting. It's a very physical experience for me.

btbnnyr
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29 Jan 2012, 12:50 am

For me, thinking in concepts is like I have packed raw data into boxes, and I play with the boxes instead of the raw data. Thinking in concepts is like the space saver, the vacuum that sucks the air out of bags in which you put your clothes to save space in the closet. There is an infomercial about one of these products that I enjoy watching on TV. By me, thinking in concepts is mostly used when I have understood something well, not when I am learning something unfamiliar. Also, whenever I want to add something new to my knowledge that I can think about in concepts, I open the box, unpack the raw data, put in the new data, rearrange the data, and once I have adjusted the concept, I am back to the box, the abstraction. Or I open the bag of clothes to put more in and rearranged them before I suck the air out again. I really like this infomercial. It is almost as good as the one with the water sprayer that you use to pressure remove dirt from surfaces. It is so satisfying to watch the water remove the dirt.

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29 Jan 2012, 12:53 am

Is alexithymia caused by the lack of the internal narrative voice to put one's unworded thoughts and feelings into words?

ValentineWiggin
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29 Jan 2012, 12:55 am

Verdandi wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

I see a therapist for several things, anxiety among them, and it's not a physical sensation.

You don't experience physical sensations with anxiety?

That's interesting. It's a very physical experience for me.

No, just intense, almost panic-like states about various things- war, the end of the world, that my boyfriend will leave me, that I'm going to die. Etc.

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29 Jan 2012, 12:58 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

I see a therapist for several things, anxiety among them, and it's not a physical sensation.

You don't experience physical sensations with anxiety?

That's interesting. It's a very physical experience for me.

No, just intense, almost panic-like states about various things- war, the end of the world, that my boyfriend will leave me, that I'm going to die. Etc.

What is a panic-like state for you? For me, panic is even more intense than anxiety, but still physical. Rapid heartbeat, sometimes hyperventilation, fluttery feelings in my abdomen.

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29 Jan 2012, 12:59 am

I'm another person who thinks in concepts, and I'd not associate them with any sort of sensory thing at all.

No matter how I'm to communicate my thoughts to others, whether its writing, speaking, drawing, etc, requires translating my thoughts into a medium that is used for external communication. This definitely ties into some of my issues communicating. For me, alexithymia is absolutely associated with my lack of internal narrative, though I'm pretty sure I'd still be alexithymic if I had one. I have issues with more than just translating thoughts into words, but that issue definitely comes up, and definitely can cause problems.

(For the thought styles information, specifically I think in concepts and the relationships between concepts.)

ValentineWiggin
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29 Jan 2012, 1:19 am

Verdandi wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

I see a therapist for several things, anxiety among them, and it's not a physical sensation.

You don't experience physical sensations with anxiety?

That's interesting. It's a very physical experience for me.

No, just intense, almost panic-like states about various things- war, the end of the world, that my boyfriend will leave me, that I'm going to die. Etc.

What is a panic-like state for you? For me, panic is even more intense than anxiety, but still physical. Rapid heartbeat, sometimes hyperventilation, fluttery feelings in my abdomen.

Worry? Extreme fear?

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29 Jan 2012, 1:36 am

btbnnyr wrote:

Is alexithymia caused by the lack of the internal narrative voice to put one's unworded thoughts and feelings into words?

Nope.

I have alexithymia and a very chatty internal narrator.

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Verdandi
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29 Jan 2012, 1:38 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

I see a therapist for several things, anxiety among them, and it's not a physical sensation.

You don't experience physical sensations with anxiety?

That's interesting. It's a very physical experience for me.

No, just intense, almost panic-like states about various things- war, the end of the world, that my boyfriend will leave me, that I'm going to die. Etc.

I don't know what this means because panic for me is intensely physical. I mean, I've experienced anxiety about things like you mention but I don't have a frame of reference for "panic-like states" that aren't physical.

Not insisting that you describe it, just explaining.

ValentineWiggin
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29 Jan 2012, 2:00 am

Verdandi wrote:

Well, surely you experience emotional or mental distress during them?
I suppose mine would be like that, without your physical symptoms?

I think I understand- I can't explain very well, because I can't fathom anxiety as being physical, so...it's hard to explain an experience of it as non-physical.

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