22 Mar 2012, 2:27 pm
22 Mar 2012, 2:34 pm
22 Mar 2012, 3:00 pm
I have this friend who always replies: "I'm terrible, thank God!" My friend is funny. 
22 Mar 2012, 9:51 pm
Ecl713 wrote:
sociable_hermit wrote:
Ecl713 wrote:
No I'm not confusing sky with air.
First of all up is relative with no absolute direction. If I was drifting somewhere in outer space I could say up is anywhere or that there was no up.
The sky is the atmosphere, as seen from a given point on the Earth's surface. The sky just fades into the surface of the earth and becomes what you would call air. There is no defined line or elevation at witch the sky starts. And also the sky just extends into outer space as well. If you can tell me where up is in outer space I would be surprised.
The sky is also known as the celestial dome witch is an imaginary dome where the sun, stars, planets, and the moon are seen to be traveling. The celestial sphere is divided into regions called constellations. Usually, the term sky is used from the point of view of the Earth's surface.
YES!
First of all up is relative with no absolute direction. If I was drifting somewhere in outer space I could say up is anywhere or that there was no up.
The sky is the atmosphere, as seen from a given point on the Earth's surface. The sky just fades into the surface of the earth and becomes what you would call air. There is no defined line or elevation at witch the sky starts. And also the sky just extends into outer space as well. If you can tell me where up is in outer space I would be surprised.
The sky is also known as the celestial dome witch is an imaginary dome where the sun, stars, planets, and the moon are seen to be traveling. The celestial sphere is divided into regions called constellations. Usually, the term sky is used from the point of view of the Earth's surface.
YES!
What you're missing here is the context of how and when the word "sky" is used. You will never, ever, hear someone use the word "sky" to describe the air at their level, i.e. in front, behind or to the side of them. So if you're stood on the ground, below you is earth, around you is air, and above you is sky.
That's backed up by the first of the dictionary definitions here: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sky
Quote "The expanse of air over any given point on the earth".
The sky can, of course, be elsewhere too (for example stretching down to the horizon in the distance) but that doesn't mean the statement "The sky is up" is wrong, as they're not mutually exclusive facts, are they?
There are a few points I agree with you on. Such as I most definitely miss the context of how and when words are used such as sky.
However I have heard myself use the word "sky" to describe the air at my level and I think I'm someone.
Knowing that there is no definable point to where the sky starts. And knowing If it was possible to move in at strait line from any point on Earth's surface you would come into contact with the sky makes it extremely hard for me to except the relative direction of up as an acceptable answer.
my original point was "the sky is not just up."
Answering "the sky" to "what's up" does not at all presuppose that the sky is just up.
23 Mar 2012, 7:15 am
Ecl713 wrote:
There are a few points I agree with you on. Such as I most definitely miss the context of how and when words are used such as sky.
However I have heard myself use the word "sky" to describe the air at my level and I think I'm someone.
Knowing that there is no definable point to where the sky starts. And knowing If it was possible to move in at strait line from any point on Earth's surface you would come into contact with the sky makes it extremely hard for me to except the relative direction of up as an acceptable answer.
my original point was "the sky is not just up."
However I have heard myself use the word "sky" to describe the air at my level and I think I'm someone.
Knowing that there is no definable point to where the sky starts. And knowing If it was possible to move in at strait line from any point on Earth's surface you would come into contact with the sky makes it extremely hard for me to except the relative direction of up as an acceptable answer.
my original point was "the sky is not just up."
As I recall, your original post on this particular side topic was something along the lines of "Don't get me started on people who answer "The sky" when asked "What's up?"". Now if that's a valid response, which it is, why would you have a problem with it?
I think the difficult thing for Aspies with words like "sky" is that they're wholly contextual. For example, if you're looking at the horizon then yes the sky there appears to reach down to ground level. But that's a matter of scale and perspective, and the word is not used in the same way when applied to where you're actually stood (unless used in error).
If you pick one particular location on that horizon line and actually go there, when you arrive the sky at that location would still be described as above you. Even more confusingly, looking back from whence you came, you'd see the horizon back there touching the ground!
As for projecting a line forward from wherever you are, yes that will touch the sky, because the line is straight and the earth is curved. In other words the line travels upwards relative to the earth. Given that we inhabit the earth to a far greater extent than we inhabit the sky (Ryan Air and Easy Jet notwithstanding), I'd say that's a natural way of defining such things. Up is away from the earth's surface. Otherwise there isn't really an up, because after all we are on a rotating sphere in an infinite space. Concepts of up and down are whatever we choose to make them in order to better understand and describe things, and that's all. In the same way that time is a relative concept, so is up and down.
23 Mar 2012, 7:40 am
Got to love aspies and their obsession with clarifiying little details and semantics on random subjects
:D:D
23 Mar 2012, 7:57 am
23 Mar 2012, 9:25 am
Imo, everything is relative 
Your "is traveling north is really traveling south" discussion reminds me of the way I feel about screws/lightbulbs/things that twist. When I'm trying to twist something, I repeat the phrase "Righty tighty, lefty loosey" but it only confuses me further because I don't know whether I'm turning it right or left because if you go far enough right it becomes left 
I've been told "It's based on the direction you go FIRST" and that doesn't help either because what point on the object is "start" so therefore, where is first?
I love breaking things down and analyzing everything strangely enough, my husband is some sort of "abstract-thinking" aspie and often talks in terms of abstract, poorly defined (imo) concepts that I can't comprehend since I tend to be literal, concrete, and only able to grasp specfic examples of a problem as opposed to generalisations 
23 Mar 2012, 9:45 am
23 Mar 2012, 11:27 am
Mysty wrote:
Ecl713 wrote:
sociable_hermit wrote:
Ecl713 wrote:
No I'm not confusing sky with air.
First of all up is relative with no absolute direction. If I was drifting somewhere in outer space I could say up is anywhere or that there was no up.
The sky is the atmosphere, as seen from a given point on the Earth's surface. The sky just fades into the surface of the earth and becomes what you would call air. There is no defined line or elevation at witch the sky starts. And also the sky just extends into outer space as well. If you can tell me where up is in outer space I would be surprised.
The sky is also known as the celestial dome witch is an imaginary dome where the sun, stars, planets, and the moon are seen to be traveling. The celestial sphere is divided into regions called constellations. Usually, the term sky is used from the point of view of the Earth's surface.
YES!
First of all up is relative with no absolute direction. If I was drifting somewhere in outer space I could say up is anywhere or that there was no up.
The sky is the atmosphere, as seen from a given point on the Earth's surface. The sky just fades into the surface of the earth and becomes what you would call air. There is no defined line or elevation at witch the sky starts. And also the sky just extends into outer space as well. If you can tell me where up is in outer space I would be surprised.
The sky is also known as the celestial dome witch is an imaginary dome where the sun, stars, planets, and the moon are seen to be traveling. The celestial sphere is divided into regions called constellations. Usually, the term sky is used from the point of view of the Earth's surface.
YES!
What you're missing here is the context of how and when the word "sky" is used. You will never, ever, hear someone use the word "sky" to describe the air at their level, i.e. in front, behind or to the side of them. So if you're stood on the ground, below you is earth, around you is air, and above you is sky.
That's backed up by the first of the dictionary definitions here: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sky
Quote "The expanse of air over any given point on the earth".
The sky can, of course, be elsewhere too (for example stretching down to the horizon in the distance) but that doesn't mean the statement "The sky is up" is wrong, as they're not mutually exclusive facts, are they?
There are a few points I agree with you on. Such as I most definitely miss the context of how and when words are used such as sky.
However I have heard myself use the word "sky" to describe the air at my level and I think I'm someone.
Knowing that there is no definable point to where the sky starts. And knowing If it was possible to move in at strait line from any point on Earth's surface you would come into contact with the sky makes it extremely hard for me to except the relative direction of up as an acceptable answer.
my original point was "the sky is not just up."
Answering "the sky" to "what's up" does not at all presuppose that the sky is just up.
Let me try explaining my problem a different way.
When I was was really young I loved to draw but i was extremely detailed. When I was 5 I was drawing houses with drain pipes, siding, and shingles on the roof. When I saw another kids picture of a house he had blue just at the top of the page.
I asked "why is there a blue stripe on the top of your drawling?"
He said "that's the sky"
I said "why is the sky just at the top?"
He said "because the sky is up.
Then I said " but the sky is all over not just up. the blue should go all the way down to the ground blah blah blah etc."
I know technically the answer "up" is not wrong. But i have an obsessive need to make sure everyone knows that the sky is not just up.
It's like saying Pi = 3.14 While true I then have to then go into the fact that pi is an irrational number, which means It goes on infinitely without repeating. Then I'll recite pi to the 206th decimal place. then I'll go into the Feynman point witch starts at the 762nd decimal place where there are six 9s in a row. Then I'll talk about the physicist Richard Feynman and before you know it I'll be talking about Daniel Tammet.
Then everyone tells me to shut up.
23 Mar 2012, 11:43 am
Blindspot149
Veteran
Joined: 7 Oct 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,516
Location: Aspergers Quadrant, INTJ, AQ 45/50
23 Mar 2012, 11:46 am
23 Mar 2012, 12:29 pm
23 Mar 2012, 12:46 pm
Quote:
Imo, everything is relative
Your "is traveling north is really traveling south" discussion reminds me of the way I feel about screws/lightbulbs/things that twist. When I'm trying to twist something, I repeat the phrase "Righty tighty, lefty loosey" but it only confuses me further because I don't know whether I'm turning it right or left because if you go far enough right it becomes left I've been told "It's based on the direction you go FIRST" and that doesn't help either because what point on the object is "start" so therefore, where is first?
Your "is traveling north is really traveling south" discussion reminds me of the way I feel about screws/lightbulbs/things that twist. When I'm trying to twist something, I repeat the phrase "Righty tighty, lefty loosey" but it only confuses me further because I don't know whether I'm turning it right or left because if you go far enough right it becomes left
I've been told "It's based on the direction you go FIRST" and that doesn't help either because what point on the object is "start" so therefore, where is first? By your logic, relativity is relative which means only some things are relative. What it is is that we can't have a consistent and complete math system. This is based upon Godel's incompleteness theorms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del ... s_theorems
I believe this applies to other systems as well. Everything being relative is true to only a certain extent which means only some things are relative. What does this mean? This means absolutes are only absolute within their subsets only that have certain constraints. The speed of light is 299,792,458 m / s but only within our base 10 number system, our units of time, how we measure time, and the actualy symbols that we choose to represent quantities. For example we could use to use the symbol "a" instead of the symbol "2."
I believe it is similar to North and South. These directions and the cardinal system is based upon certain constraints and subsets. I believe when this system was developed the people still assumed the earth was flat. I could be wrong. We know it is not flat. It is a sphere or sphere-like. If we only considered only parts of the earth at a time north-south-east-west or right, left, up and down would fit. If we look at the earth as a sphere and a whole to settle this I believe clockwise and counter-closewise would be more accurate. Maybe it would be more accurate to say we are going north in a counter-clockwise lateral direction. We can also go south as well in a counter-clockwise lateral direction as well.
For your light bulb example you can go either right or left in a clockwise or counter-clockwise lateral direction. With going around in a circle with a light bulb, when they say to turn right they really mean to turn it in a clockwise fashion. Right, left, up and down assumes only a flat surface. When you leave the subset of the flat surface into circular and spherical surfaces you have to add more constraints which are clockwise and counter-clockwise. When they say turn it right they mean turn it clockwise.
Quote:
I love breaking things down and analyzing everything strangely enough, my husband is some sort of "abstract-thinking" aspie and often talks in terms of abstract, poorly defined (imo) concepts that I can't comprehend since I tend to be literal, concrete, and only able to grasp specfic examples of a problem as opposed to generalisations
strangely enough, my husband is some sort of "abstract-thinking" aspie and often talks in terms of abstract, poorly defined (imo) concepts that I can't comprehend since I tend to be literal, concrete, and only able to grasp specfic examples of a problem as opposed to generalisations Me too
23 Mar 2012, 1:26 pm
^ Relative vrs absolutes is the subject of my signature The statement itself is paradoxical and therefore cannot be true yet I believe it to be because if you "step back" or "go up" another layer in terms of perception, the absolute becomes relative, precisely as you mentioned That's why I love that statement so much, it's completely circular, impossible, and pretty much sums up my view of the universe.
23 Mar 2012, 1:48 pm
myth wrote:
^ Relative vrs absolutes is the subject of my signature The statement itself is paradoxical and therefore cannot be true yet I believe it to be because if you "step back" or "go up" another layer in terms of perception, the absolute becomes relative, precisely as you mentioned That's why I love that statement so much, it's completely circular, impossible, and pretty much sums up my view of the universe.
The statement itself is paradoxical and therefore cannot be true yet I believe it to be because if you "step back" or "go up" another layer in terms of perception, the absolute becomes relative, precisely as you mentioned That's why I love that statement so much, it's completely circular, impossible, and pretty much sums up my view of the universe.Myth,
It is my view of the universe as well. You out of everyone both NT and aspie who truly understands and can keep up with my thoughts the most. You truly perceive existence the way I see it. I don't know how to explain it but I can sense that about you. We should talk more and talk about things like this more.
What if the ultimate absolute is to discover what the ultimate absolutes are? What if the process of discovering the absolutes is the absolute? Like NTs say, it is the journey and not the destination.
The ultimate absolute(s) can never be truly found or completed. The system of existence can never be complete and consistent. If you want to understand existence and truly understand you have to understand it in its infinite and not the finite. You have to go outside of the finite and into the infinite. Existence has always truly existed and is infinite.
If you want to read an awesome fiction book of what I truly believe please read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Ships It is by Stephen Baxter.
Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 23 Mar 2012, 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
