Understanding the model NTs operate on

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For one I agreed with most of your post. I wasn't attacking it. I was thinking that perhaps the 99 percentile view is because you are at that level or above. And the chances of running across someone at a college level average IQ of 115 is 15 out of 100.

Wow, this has been interesting...A lot to think about. Thanks to everyone so far for thier input.

Questions:

1. Is the following with regards to greetings correct? Am I missing anything etc.?
Purpose of greetings
- Acknowledging someone
- Making a connection with someone
- Enquiring about someones wellbeing
- Expression of interest in talking with them
- Cues to gauge mood, temperament, wellbeing etc of the person
- Getting their attention
Ignoring a greeting is likely to make the person feel rejected and you are breaking social norms.

2. Do some people use words as the fundamental/base language they think in? As in if they couldnt use words they could not consciously think? If so, do you think the majority or minority of people think like this?

This is all correct.



This is a very difficult question. It is hard enough to know the exact mechanism of my conscious thought even though it's in my head, and impossible to know about other people. Nevertheless I will answer. But my answer can't be extrapolated to any other NTs.

My conscious thoughts are always words in my head accompanied by images if those thoughts are concrete rather than abstract. For example, if I think of the color yellow, I hear the word "yellow" in my head and also visualize the color. But if I think of something abstract like peace, I hear only the word in my head with no accompanying image. Instead there is the concept. The concept will solidify into further words if I need it to.

This means that there is always a voice in my head talking. People who meditate call this voice "chattering monkey mind". One of the goals of meditation is to shut this voice up, implying that it is a common phenomenon. But that implication is as far as I can go in guessing how other NTs experience conscious thought. It may be that it is the majority. Or it may be that only people bothered by this voice seek out meditation in the first place.

My experiences with meditation had mixed results. Sometimes it seemed that I was able to shut the voice up. But this happy realization always came in the form of the mental sentence "I shut the voice up!" which reactivated it. I have not had success for more than about 30 seconds. Was I consciously thinking during those 30 seconds before I started thinking in words again? It seems I was. There was no lapse in conscious thought- only a lapse in conscious chatter. But since it was so short lived (and I have done this many times and never gone for any longer) I am only guessing.

Greater success in shutting up the voice has come with "merge" experiences. This is where I am in a very large crowd of people and we are all doing the same thing, such as dancing at a live concert, or singing. During those experiences, the voice shuts up for bursts of several minutes at a time. Was I consciously thinking during those times? It certainly seems that way since I can remember those experiences very clearly. However I don't know if I am remembering actual conscious thoughts or if I am remembering unthought sensations and then retroactively putting them into words. One thing I do know for sure is that I can't shut up the voice alone. The presence of lots of other peole all doing the same thing is required. That's probably why solo meditation never worked for more than seconds.

I have read that religious rituals deliberately have large groups of people all do the same thing at the same time such as chanting or singing in order to set up a certain state of mind. Some sort of group synchronization happens that shuts up the voice in the head at least for bursts of time. Other NTs enjoy this synchronization just as I do. You can see it at sporting event rituals too. But are they enjoying it because it shuts up the voice in the head? I don't know. I do know that when I wrote about this in an older thread, many AS posters reacted with horror at the thought of such a merging synchronization experience, imagining that it would come at the price of individuality. Oddly, it doesn't. Although you would think it would. But since it seems so anathema to AS people and so alluring to NT people, this is clearly a core neurological difference. It has been written about in older threads with the simplification of "only AS people are individuals". But the merge experience doesn't obliterate individuality. For me at least, it merely shuts up the voice in the head for minutes at a time and that is enjoyable.

That is not a straightforward answer to your question but that is because I just don't know exactly. I can only make guesses about other people by assuming that they enjoy these merge experiences to shut up the voice in the head just lke I do. But this is just a guess. And for those short bursts of time that the voice is not talking, I still seem to be consciously thinking, at least as I remember, but I have no way of knowing if I was still consciously thinking or if I just retroactively put non-thought sensations into words after the voice came back.

(b) 1. Ulterior Motive----A person acknowledges you with a greeting in-order to gain something from you immediately or in the future. I.E A salesman is probably one of the most common examples.

(b) 1. Social Convention/Culture-----It's expected because everyone does IT; an unspoken rule of verbal or non-verbal language that conveys a universal meaning to a group of people.

(b) 2. Be more specific

TheSunAlsoRises

This is very scary news to me - I don't hear any voices in my head at all!

I might just see the word I am thinking about in my mind but not all the time and most times there's no image accompanying it either.

I think mainly in concepts as opposed to individual words so the word 'yellow' would be in my head as the concept yellow with no need of an image of it or sound of it. If there's anythign concrete it might just be a flash of the word 'yellow' but usually this would happen far too quickly for me to be aware of it as a word.

It makes a lot of sense to me that NTs think and hear mainly in words in their heads

Is there an actual sound in your head as if you were wearing headphones and someone actually said the word 'yellow' in your ear? Is the sound of the word being spoken in your head in your own voice?

I have no voice/word sounds in my head at all and practically no images either - I struggle greatly to conjure up a clear image of anything in my head - it's generally too hard.
I think in pure thought in other words and in order to speak, as I'm not thinking in words automatically, I have to do a translation of my thoughts into a word format before I speak - hence when I speak to most NTs it's as if I'm not getting through to them properly ie they must be sensing this disconnect between my thoughts and my words. For NTs I get the impression thoughts ARE in spoken word format automatically in their heads before they speak whereas for me thoughts have to be translated into vocal format first.

Why is it scary?





I hear the words almost always in my own voice. I don't know if "sound" is the right word since I am quite conscious of there being no input from my ears (unlike with headphones). But it is not the same as an auditory hallucination (which I've had a couple times while sick with fever) where the sound seems (wrongly) to be coming from outside my head and in through my ears. But there is definately a sense of "hearing" even in the absence of actual sound. Now and then it is somebody else's voice. It will be one of my parents if it's nagging advice. For example, if I don't fasten my seatbelt within about 20 seconds of getting into a car, I hear "fasten your seatbelt" in my head in my mother's voice. If I hear somebody else's voice, the pronouns are always correctly reversed.




Very interesting. This subject has come up before and answers from people here seem to be all over the place. Some people describe words, some describe words plus images (like me), some describe images predominantly, some describe concepts predominantly. That is one reason I hesitate to say that just because this applies to me, it therefore applies to all NTs. While there are descriptions in various cultures of this, I still don't think it's safe to uniformly say that all NTs think primarily in words with some images attached. It may turn out to be true, but anecdotes of NT people saying "that's how it is for me" doesn't mean that is the singular NT mode.

There is no one NT model of behavior. And there are many NTs who have difficulty with communication. If there weren't, there would not be the great numbers of books on how to start a conversation, how to get a date and how to read body language.

When I selected my screen name, I was certain I was an NT. After having been on this forum for a while, I can say that I relate to a lot of what is spoken about here, enough that now I am not sure.

Facebook? Interesting, I was addicted to it. I loved to feel in contact with my friends and tell them about my day and hear about theirs. About a week ago, I backed away from it because I found the conflicting opinions and the occasional nasty interactions irritating. It was raising my anxiety level, so I thought I would take a break. I'm not sure I will ever go back now.

I'm not sure if that is an NT or Aspie response. I think it is just a "me" response.

Janissy those experiences with your internal voice are very interesting, and helpful to me.

I think this is a better way of phrasing what I was trying to ask with the second question. To rephrase:
Do some people think in a spoken word format (i.e. no translation required, they automatically think in a format that directly matches spoken language)?

Do some people think in a spoken word format (i.e. no translation required, they automatically think in a format that directly matches spoken language)?[/quote]

The answer is yes. I have a voice soundtrack in my head constantly. I talk to myself a lot too.

I remember listening to a video in which Dr. Grandin stated THAT during her travels, she has met two people who thought completely in words. I believe she was referring to the kind of thinking that you are talking about.

TheSunAlsoRises

Would this be your fundamental way of thinking? Can you consciously think without this spoken word format?
What I am trying to find out is whether some peoples base thinking language is in a spoken word format.

For me, I would say I tend to have words flowing in my head all the time (internal voice), and usually, though not always, hear words in my head as I read. However, not everything in my conscious awareness gets put into words. Even words don't always get put into words. That is, written words can trigger thoughts (the idea conveyed by the word) without hearing the word in my head.

To say I always think in words would not be true, but, when I speak, I don't have to translate. Well, not in normal conversation anyway. There are times when I'm trying to say something I haven't put into words before and have to think how to do so, but for run of the mill conversation, no putting it into words is automatic.

I do think in spoken word format. I think most NTs do and I agree with the people who've said that's where the barrier comes in wit communication, the autistic has to translate thoughts into words first.

I'm not sure if I really could think without any words at all. I'm not visual at all and I don't think in pictures, sometimes I go long periods of time without talking which is natural for me but I still have the inner monologue.

I would say yes, that is my fundamental way of thinking. Although when I write creatively (short stories, novellas) it is very visual, like a movie in my head. I know what the characters look like and I can picture the setting. Sometimes translating those pictures to words on the written page is difficult though.

Ok, so for others, words can be more fundamental in thier thought processes yet they can still can think without words, and needing to go through a translation process to get throughts into words is likely to be related to autism.

What is it that makes a translation process of thoughts to words necessary in some (like me) but not necessary in others?

The extent to which the module of the brain that specifically deals with thinking in words is damaged/not working/not present/not needed

Or perhaps the extent to which a person's brain is biased towards talking as opposed to thinking?

Perhaps the human race needs a mix of thinkers and vocalisers and if you are too suited to the vocalisation of your thoughts, the thoughts won't be as good or will be of a different nature to those of a person who is more suited to pure thought