Is aspergers existence proven scientifically?

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travelplus
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13 May 2012, 6:34 pm

Aspergers is a trait whereby people respond and act differently than other people. Its not a disease like cancer,diabetes etc.

Think of Aspergers in a positive way. Your brain is wired differently and you process different subjects in different ways. You may be really good at one subject like science but are not good in Math. People without Aspergers can also have their quirks.

In fact we were all born with differences. One person can dance but one can't. One loves to eat a certain type of food etc.

We need to celebrate each other's differences.

How do you define normal? If you don't make eye contact or have an odd conversation and you are made fun of then can you make fun of this person for smoking weed?

What is really sad is that people waste their money smoking, doing drugs etc. People with Aspergers should be celebrated for all of their research.

It sure looks like a death sentence on paper especially when you read in books parents mourn when their hear their son or daughter was diagnosed with Aspergers.

If my child was diagnosed with Autism I would be happy to learn there is a name for this condition. I would not waste my time crying over this condition. Other children can have severe disabilities that require them to be in a wheelchair for life.

So what if individuals with Aspergers can't do sports don't force them to participate in competitive PE. Instead allow them to swim, walk the track with friends.

If a teacher is caught teasing or bullying the kid with Autism they need to be punished as well as other peers bullying the AS kid needs to be punished.

When there is a problem don't bring in the Neurotypical Student in first to the Principal's Office bring in the child with Aspergers in because if the other kid bullied the student and lied and the AS kid was punished that would be so unfair.

If you know that you are not good in Math due to dyscalculia then why do the schools keep emphasizing a subject where you are stressed in and keep getting bad grades in. It seems like Colleges and High Schools etc should celebrate the skills the individual is good at. You see an individual can get a degree if the field does not require advanced Math then why force them to take Statistics Algebra 2 etc?

There are computers, Excel etc. I know that Math is important but having students who fail at Math or Science and knowingly having them get a failing grade is murder.

In fact General Education Requirements should be changed to fit the field the student is going into. The First two years a student should take whatever course floats his or her boat.
Especially since we are paying for the education we should decide to take the final exam or not, do this project or not. We have the Professors as our guides and we should decide what is going to help us for the future and current goals.

If we waste our money for a degree that won't land us a job then thats a waste of an education. I can see in primary school having to take courses that is teacher led because this is the foundation.

In college/University I think its should be for the student by the student. If a student would rather do a project or write a paper instead of exams then let them. If a student would rather take computers instead of math allow them to and give them a degree. The Professors are like guidebooks use them as much as you want etc. They will still have jobs because you can do research under them, they will give you ideas on how to complete the assignment etc.

Instead of Professors assigning a certain length to a homework assignment it should be up to the student to dictate and be self-directed to know how much is required. A Professor or TA would look at the assignment for the logistics etc and grade based upon the knowledge gained. Instead of assigning a due date have a certain amount of assignments required to be turned in by the end of the semester.

If a Student is so far advanced let them take the course for 1/2 a semester if they can prove they know the material etc.

Lets say one student takes computers, Psychology etc and gets good grades and loves the field they should be able to get a degree by taking a breadth of subjects they like.

Colleges and Universities should be asking students what they want to take etc.

Screw Standardized Testing because individuals with AS perform better in other ways such as projects, getting good grades etc.

In conclusion Aspergers is just a part of who you are. Its like wearing glasses, needing a white cane if you are blind or hearing aid if you are deaf. People with Aspergers just happen to be smart for the most part and have social quirks.

We need to take the time to listen to them and not put them down. If they continue on and on about their obsession take note and see if you can offer them resources to pursue it. Perhaps you have a friend who is a Recording Studio Manager hook them up with them and see if the individual with AS can work for them. Their obsession could be the perfect job and you turned it into something positive.

Negativity and Aspergers just don't mix. We need to celebrate the good traits and help them to turn their negative behaviors into positive ones. For instance if they have meltdowns channel it so they can take a walk, listen to music etc.

The DSM guide is just a manual which is quite inflexible. In fact people with Aspergers change and can improve to the point where people won't think about the individual having a disability. Aspergers is not a disability its a unique ability to enjoy life in ways other people could only dream of.

Early intervention is key so the earlier you know your child has Aspergers the easier it will be for them to have a fruitful career. Never give up or lose hope. Not having a girlfriend is not the end of the world. I mean I know people with AS would love to have one but if they just don't feel comfortable having one don't force them to have one.

Would you rather have your son or daughter on SSI paying for the outings of a girlfriend or live alone and have a decent job because they pursued their obsession?

In fact SSI should not be a subject for individuals with AS. They are owed a chance and employment. Screw those employers who try to get out of employing someone with a disability.

If I was in the position to hire employees I would first hire someone with AS and just work out the quirks. They are so unfairly underrepresented.

If their interview skills are not as good as others and their eye contact is not as good but they know your system better then forget about the quirks.

We see executives yell and scream, get fired for inside trading and here we don't hire people with Aspergers who are loyal and fun to work with. So unfair.



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13 May 2012, 9:28 pm

travelplus wrote:

It sure looks like a death sentence on paper especially when you read in books parents mourn when their hear their son or daughter was diagnosed with Aspergers.


I appreciate your enthusiasm, and am pleased that things are working out, I really am but it's not just "in books, and on paper" where Aspergers is a "death sentence", a good chunk of the posts on this forum seem to indicate that also, from my experience.


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13 May 2012, 9:39 pm

Asperger's is real. Neural underconnectivity in some brain areas, overconnectivity in others, abnormal neurotransmitter levels. The only problem is that the diagnosis is left to modern shamans who assess patients based on their own subjective impressions without bothering to gather any real medical data. But that goes for all mental / neurological disorders.



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14 May 2012, 10:52 am

CrazyCatLord wrote:
Asperger's is real. Neural underconnectivity in some brain areas, overconnectivity in others, abnormal neurotransmitter levels. The only problem is that the diagnosis is left to modern shamans who assess patients based on their own subjective impressions without bothering to gather any real medical data. But that goes for all mental / neurological disorders.

Agreed. Like somebody here said a year or two ago, AS diagnosis should be the domain of the neurologist, not the shrink. That's why I'm hoping that brain scans will eventually replace all this subjective, self-assesment crap that passes itself off for a diagnosis of AS.



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14 May 2012, 2:19 pm

Well going on all the information & really bad professionals. How do you know that you have not just rediscovered anxiety which is normal, a military Sgt will watch you like a hawk if you don't show any signs of been nervous as your a danger to the unit & the ones who do have cold feet normal get the power to charge after a moving speech. But then they is the ones who get shell shock that just need removing, from the battle.

Everyone gets nervous in different situations.

& how you know you not rediscovered learning impairment or different style of learning to the school normal. But then in my time they was more practical & towards the end it was turning less practical. Because of really cough fresh teachers failing boundary tests, next door teacher constantly in & head teacher constantly down.

They stuck so much junk under it. I not read that book I put or the book from 1986 but the fact she says she was bullied & left normal school to join a autistic one, is that just learning impairments. ( & I would not want to go to this autistic school, I had a good time in school, lots of girlfriends, even the geeks got girlfriends. Sure they was bully, but they found out how much I bite. )

Hyperventilating you use a bag to breath into or use an inhaler.

Edit:- Well I just saw a bit ago autism experts on bloomberg tv channel, they did not look like they had all they cylinders firing. ( Know fully what they were talking about.)

The kids looked like they were on something.

??? These people need arresting, what ever they bloody doing.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-2 ... study.html

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL5GHMEjzt8[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeGaffIJvHM[/youtube]

Watch the TV Show Tracy Beaker clips.


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Last edited by TechnoDog on 14 May 2012, 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Matt62
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14 May 2012, 6:55 pm

Anxiety & shyness? Oh sure, I get it now! That is why I spent half my childhood stimming and could not follow at school because my mind wanted to wander off into my inner world. I was just shy & mis-understood.
*BUNK*! *BUNK!*
This is positively absurd. I would have thought by now that we would have at least moved on past this. This is just another " he doesn't really have a problem! He is spolied" in a different package.
I suffered through my childhood, Techno-dog. You have NO IDEA the horrors that existed before this Era. You want to see Pandora's Box? I will walk you down my Memory some day.
Autism IS REAL
Asperger's is Autism.
We are constantly learning about these disorders, and getting more informed. Turning back the clock would cause suffering beyond imagination.

Sincerely,
Matthew



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14 May 2012, 6:57 pm

No your just not listening about the FACT they have stuck tones under one umbrella turm & you have not read anything on this page. Your learning nothing.

Matt62 wrote:
You want to see Pandora's Box? I will walk you down my Memory some day.

You have NO IDEA the horrors that existed before this Era. ( Really you think I don't, I probably know more than you. )


Dare you to tell me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw8xP4CC9zo&feature=related[/youtube]

Matt62 wrote:
Turning back the clock would cause suffering beyond imagination. ( You have turned back the clock under science now. Drugs )


Image

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lNTZYu2Thc[/youtube]


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15 May 2012, 2:12 am

Eric Schopler

Welcome to the web log in memory of Dr. Eric Schopler (1927-2006), a professor of psychiatry and psychology at UNC-Chapel Hill for more than 40 years and a pioneer in the humane and effective treatment of autism?. In an era when parents were blamed for causing what was felt to be a psychological problem, Eric was one of the first to use empirical research to establish the true, neurological basis of autism and its effective treatment--treatment that included parents as co-therapists. His methods have been studied and adopted by autism programs around the world, bringing hope and brighter futures to thousands of families in dozens of countries. In the process, hundreds of people have come to know and admire him and have been privileged to call him "friend." This web log is dedicated to sharing and preserving the memories that these friends, family and colleagues have of this truly unique and great man.

Quote:
Thursday, September 01, 2011
TEACCH moved to AHEC

The program for the Treatment and Education of Autistic and related Communication-handicapped Children (TEACCH), will be moved organizationally under the North Carolina Area Health Education Centers (AHEC) program, effective Sept. 1, 2011, with the arrival of the new director, Laura Klinger, Ph.D.

TEACCH has reported to the dean’s office of the School of Medicine since February 2010. Margaret B. Dardess, PhD, JD, associate vice chancellor for strategic alliances in the School of Medicine, is interim executive director. In July 2010, the School of Medicine made the decision to move TEACCH to AHEC upon the recruitment of a new director. Dr. Klinger’s appointment as the new director of TEACCH was announced in July 2011, after a long search which involved parents, community leaders, health care professionals and others. Read more about Dr. Klinger here.

About AHEC

The mission of the North Carolina AHEC Program is to meet the state’s health and health workforce needs by providing educational programs in partnership with academic institutions, health care agencies, and other organizations committed to improving the health of the people of North Carolina.


http://teacch.com/about-us-1

http://ericschopler.blogspot.co.uk/

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_THeWH0ox4[/youtube]


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15 May 2012, 8:22 am

Does it matter if there is "hard proof??"

They think there is-- most notably, an enlarged and overactive amygdala.

Of course, brain scans are more expensive than self-assessment (or the professional assessment of self-reporting). So they don't happen near as often.

But-- Does it really matter??

I don't know.

I rather suspect, if we performed universal brain scans, we would discover that while all brains have basic structures in common, no two brains are actually identical.

Then what would we have?? Hard proof that people aren't Fords, evidence that a certain percentage of personality really is hardwired and all that is a choice is a certain extent of the expression of it??

It wouldn't resolve the question of what does and does not constitute a pathology, or how individuals are to be regarded/treated.

We'd probably STILL have a "preferred neurology." And it would be the most common, or else the mean ("mean" as in "statistical average," not "mean" as in "nasty," but the semantic confusion is really humorous).

And, likely as not, we'd be euthanizing everyone who didn't fall within so many standard deviations one way or the other of that mark.

With or without hard proof, the problem remains the same.


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15 May 2012, 8:47 am

travelplus wrote:
Aspergers is a trait whereby people respond and act differently than other people. Its not a disease like cancer,diabetes etc.

Think of Aspergers in a positive way. Your brain is wired differently and you process different subjects in different ways. You may be really good at one subject like science but are not good in Math. People without Aspergers can also have their quirks.

In fact we were all born with differences. One person can dance but one can't. One loves to eat a certain type of food etc.

We need to celebrate each other's differences.

How do you define normal? If you don't make eye contact or have an odd conversation and you are made fun of then can you make fun of this person for smoking weed?


What is really sad is that people waste their money smoking, doing drugs etc. People with Aspergers should be celebrated for all of their research.

It sure looks like a death sentence on paper especially when you read in books parents mourn when their hear their son or daughter was diagnosed with Aspergers.

If my child was diagnosed with Autism I would be happy to learn there is a name for this condition. I would not waste my time crying over this condition. Other children can have severe disabilities that require them to be in a wheelchair for life.

So what if individuals with Aspergers can't do sports don't force them to participate in competitive PE. Instead allow them to swim, walk the track with friends.

If a teacher is caught teasing or bullying the kid with Autism they need to be punished as well as other peers bullying the AS kid needs to be punished.

When there is a problem don't bring in the Neurotypical Student in first to the Principal's Office bring in the child with Aspergers in because if the other kid bullied the student and lied and the AS kid was punished that would be so unfair.

If you know that you are not good in Math due to dyscalculia then why do the schools keep emphasizing a subject where you are stressed in and keep getting bad grades in. It seems like Colleges and High Schools etc should celebrate the skills the individual is good at. You see an individual can get a degree if the field does not require advanced Math then why force them to take Statistics Algebra 2 etc?

There are computers, Excel etc. I know that Math is important but having students who fail at Math or Science and knowingly having them get a failing grade is murder.

In fact General Education Requirements should be changed to fit the field the student is going into. The First two years a student should take whatever course floats his or her boat.
Especially since we are paying for the education we should decide to take the final exam or not, do this project or not. We have the Professors as our guides and we should decide what is going to help us for the future and current goals.

If we waste our money for a degree that won't land us a job then thats a waste of an education. I can see in primary school having to take courses that is teacher led because this is the foundation.

In college/University I think its should be for the student by the student. If a student would rather do a project or write a paper instead of exams then let them. If a student would rather take computers instead of math allow them to and give them a degree. The Professors are like guidebooks use them as much as you want etc. They will still have jobs because you can do research under them, they will give you ideas on how to complete the assignment etc.

Instead of Professors assigning a certain length to a homework assignment it should be up to the student to dictate and be self-directed to know how much is required. A Professor or TA would look at the assignment for the logistics etc and grade based upon the knowledge gained. Instead of assigning a due date have a certain amount of assignments required to be turned in by the end of the semester.

If a Student is so far advanced let them take the course for 1/2 a semester if they can prove they know the material etc.

Lets say one student takes computers, Psychology etc and gets good grades and loves the field they should be able to get a degree by taking a breadth of subjects they like.

Colleges and Universities should be asking students what they want to take etc.

Screw Standardized Testing because individuals with AS perform better in other ways such as projects, getting good grades etc.

In conclusion Aspergers is just a part of who you are. Its like wearing glasses, needing a white cane if you are blind or hearing aid if you are deaf. People with Aspergers just happen to be smart for the most part and have social quirks.

We need to take the time to listen to them and not put them down. If they continue on and on about their obsession take note and see if you can offer them resources to pursue it. Perhaps you have a friend who is a Recording Studio Manager hook them up with them and see if the individual with AS can work for them. Their obsession could be the perfect job and you turned it into something positive.

Negativity and Aspergers just don't mix. We need to celebrate the good traits and help them to turn their negative behaviors into positive ones. For instance if they have meltdowns channel it so they can take a walk, listen to music etc.

The DSM guide is just a manual which is quite inflexible. In fact people with Aspergers change and can improve to the point where people won't think about the individual having a disability. Aspergers is not a disability its a unique ability to enjoy life in ways other people could only dream of.

Early intervention is key so the earlier you know your child has Aspergers the easier it will be for them to have a fruitful career. Never give up or lose hope. Not having a girlfriend is not the end of the world. I mean I know people with AS would love to have one but if they just don't feel comfortable having one don't force them to have one.

Would you rather have your son or daughter on SSI paying for the outings of a girlfriend or live alone and have a decent job because they pursued their obsession?

In fact SSI should not be a subject for individuals with AS. They are owed a chance and employment. Screw those employers who try to get out of employing someone with a disability.

If I was in the position to hire employees I would first hire someone with AS and just work out the quirks. They are so unfairly underrepresented.

If their interview skills are not as good as others and their eye contact is not as good but they know your system better then forget about the quirks.

We see executives yell and scream, get fired for inside trading and here we don't hire people with Aspergers who are loyal and fun to work with. So unfair.


Well this different wiring can cause some very real difficulties........not saying it should be veiwed in a totally negative light, but to disregard that it can be disabling in a lot of ways probably does more harm than good.

Also making fun of people to make them feel bad is not cool in general.....wether it's for not making eye contact or smoking weed. Also why would one assume that if someone makes fun of them for not making eye contact that person must smoke weed? I smoke it and I would never do that to someone. Also people waste their money on video games, ipads, computer games coffee, movies, t.v's.....to each their own I won't explain all the reasons people might use drugs but keep in mind some people with Asperger's do and preaching acceptance for AS wile spreading the common stigma about 'smoking weed' does not make too much sense to me....Other then that though you've made some good points especially with the education.

Also well society has not been kind to all of us.......so I know I don't exactly see what's so wonderful about succeeding in this society and making a career working for people my life. But maybe early intervention would help that and maybe if society becomes more accepting of peoples differences.


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15 May 2012, 9:53 am

BuyerBeware wrote:
Does it matter if there is "hard proof??"

They think there is-- most notably, an enlarged and overactive amygdala.

Of course, brain scans are more expensive than self-assessment (or the professional assessment of self-reporting). So they don't happen near as often.

But-- Does it really matter??


Because that is genocide & we have laws against this. AND WE ARE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST AS A GROUP. AND HAVING OUR BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS AS A GROUP ATTACKED.

We DONT HAVE A BETTER LIFE.
We are been torchered.

I HAD A BETTER LIFE BEFORE YOU MORONS INTERFIERED.

& THIS SHOULD NEVER BE TOLERATED.

THE DUMB ARSES SHOULD OF ALL JUST DIED.

& LEFT THEY BS WERE IT WAS. IN GERMANY.

THIS COUNTRY WAS GREAT BEFORE AUTISM. IN 1980 ish in this country is when things started changing the DSM BOOK.

ALL YOU NEED IS ALL THE PEOPLE TO COME FORWARD WITH THEY SHOCK STORYS.

TO THE UN human rights.

YOU DID NOT HELP YOU JUST CAUSED FING PROBLEMS.

Quote:
United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."


http://www.uccs.edu/~faculty/fcoolidg/H ... nproof.pdf

Quote:
The name Adolf Hitler conjures-up images of a madman in power, Nazi concentration camps in Germany and Europe, and an evil of such magnitude that millions of Jewish people and others were subjected to unimaginable torture, terror and death. The present study attempts to evaluate posthumously Adolf Hitler’s personality according to the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2000). Tolerance and enlightened acceptance of various peoples has been heralded as one of the major accomplishments of modern societies in the last 50 years.


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Last edited by TechnoDog on 15 May 2012, 10:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

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15 May 2012, 10:40 am

TechnoDog, please don't SHOUT.
It's visually annoying and rather pointless on a discussion forum.


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15 May 2012, 11:34 am

I think this "Autism" epidemic is overdiagnosed. Yes there are people who are more challenged with Autism or Asperger's that may need services. But what about us capable people who are diagnosed with something and we are forced into services that we do not need based on a "history".
I hate the fact that due to "history" or because it is considered a "lifelong" disability, one is stuck. What about someone who no longer has the social skills issues, who never had or gotten rid of stereotypical behaviors, one who has overcome all of the symptoms to where they should no longer considered 'autistic".
When I was younger, I talked very early, than only stopped talking when my sister was born(when I was 1 1/2), but regain perfect speech in less than 6 months, I only had eye contact issues (which was gone by age 5), the reading of non-verbal cues (which I no longer have issues with), I never had any difficult behaviors in my life (actually very well behaved and respectful), I was always very social (only withdraw for safety reasons, but very outgoing in school and everywhere), always have over empathetic and sympathetic. I may have sensory issues, but that is it. I should have been downgraded to sensory processing disorder, but due to "history" was diagnosed with Aspergers.
I feel that the DSM V is a good thing because they are getting rid of the "history" part. If I was only downgraded to sensory processing disorder, when I applied for vocational services, I would have never dealt with the inappropriate "autism" services, which were to "Dumbed down" for me. Yes even the services for "high-functioning autism/asperger's was too "dumbed" down for me, as I was advanced in the skills they taught.
I wish that these people who make diagnosis understand that because of therapies or whatever, someone can overcome the "disorder" and when they do should no longer be considered having it.



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15 May 2012, 2:30 pm

Cornflake wrote:
TechnoDog, please don't SHOUT.
It's visually annoying and rather pointless on a discussion forum.


I am sorry conflake but I am sick of the DSM book now & it needs banning from the UK. They like re-labelling things too much. We already have stuff for this. It's a waste of money & they should not be called disorders.

Communication Disorders
A 03 Speech Disorder.
A 02 Language Disorder.

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision/Pa ... px?rid=486

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision/Pa ... px?rid=575


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15 May 2012, 2:58 pm

TechnoDog wrote:
I am sorry conflake but I am sick of the DSM book now & it needs banning from the UK. They like re-labelling things too much. We already have stuff for this. It's a waste of money & they should not be called disorders.
Ok I understand the frustration but please try to go easy on the caps key. :wink:

But the DSM is American - I think the UK already uses its own set of definitions: the WHO list, isn't it?


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15 May 2012, 3:28 pm

Cornflake wrote:
TechnoDog wrote:
I am sorry conflake but I am sick of the DSM book now & it needs banning from the UK. They like re-labelling things too much. We already have stuff for this. It's a waste of money & they should not be called disorders.
Ok I understand the frustration but please try to go easy on the caps key. :wink:

But the DSM is American - I think the UK already uses its own set of definitions: the WHO list, isn't it?


I saw the book on the desk of the mental health service in. Ideal House & Clifton House. Lots have been narrow diagnosing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-10787342

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18007951


_________________
INTJ, Type5 Observer, Ecologists,
?When you make a mistake, don't look back at it long. Take the reason of the thing into your mind and then look forward. Mistakes are lessons of wisdom. The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power.?