Suicide as an alternative option for lifelong torment.

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I don't believe living for a good outcome in the future is sufficient reason to live. I don't even assign myself a reason to live. I just live without thought to the meaning, as other animals do. Not grasping after a reason to live actually helped me feel less suicidal. When I have thoughts about suicide now, it's my brain's automatic response to either physical or emotional pain. I don't get existential suicidal angst any more. I also try to not get angsty about the presence or lack of pleasant things in my life, or whether my plans to obtain pleasant experiences will come to fruition, because those things are impermanent. The argument of 'it gets better' is easily rebutted with 'it gets worse'. Much better to not require pleasure as a justification for life, or indeed not to require a justification for life at all.

Your words are very Buddhist and also very wise. The best advice I've seen in this thread so far.

This is what I believe, but I stress out about the direction my life is going in probably more than most people do. Acknowledging the dharma helps me to cut through destructive mental tendencies that I've picked up in life, which are many.

I think there's a void, too, but I think it needn't be filled.

there are lots of other things to try first. I wont suggest anything specific because they're often not particularly constructive but they do help alleviate some of the urges for suicide. these dont eliminate the suicide option, merely give you a chance to find alternatives if you want to.

I largely agree with you, celebrei. To answer the original question - why suicide is considered "bad" by society - I think the real reasons are:

1) Survival instinct - it tells us to avoid death at all costs.
2) Culture - people think so because other people think so. I include religion in this as well.

All other reasons are rationalisations made up after the fact, in my opinion, but if (just for the sake of argument ) we treat humans as thinking beings, other reasons include:

1) Life is assumed to have a positive net value (the good outweighs the bad) to the person, therefore ending it prematurely is an irrational choice.
2) Life is assumed to have a positive net value to other people, therefore ending it prematurely is "selfish".
3) The suicide of one person may create more problems for another, which is, again, selfish.

I think these are valid reasons for some people some of the time, but as usual, people tend to generalize them and assume they always apply, which is plainly not the case.

What if one doesn't have any loved ones? I think suicide would be very personal in that case. There are people out there that actually have no one at all to care about them. I don't impose my belief system on people for exactly this reason, it's such a slippery slope when it comes to someone's free will.

The void is actually full, it's empty of 'you'. It's just scary because it's annihilation. (nonexistence) When 'you' arise, 'you' exist.

I've never seen why suicide is so scary and forbidden. I'd never do it, but if someone were in enough pain (mentally or physically), it turns into a much more appealing idea. I am an atheist, and I believe in one life. So I think if someone were to kill themself, they should at least consider what they are doing to both themself and the people who care about them.

One can consider suicide to be a selfish act, but isn't it also selfish to keep someone who is suffering alive because of your love for them? If someone is truly suffering, it should be their choice whether they would like to stay alive; not their family's choice.

Agreed....strongly.

Ignorant and naive.....and I'm being very generous.

Are you referring to nominalist or me?

suicide should only be considered when immediate death is unavoidable.

Quote from somebody---- "OK, this is gonna sound harsh, but psychological torment is brought on by one's inability to cope with a situation. Physical torment is brought on by things out of our control. You have a choice (if somewhat subliminal) whether or not to get so mentally hung up on a problem that it consumes you, but you don't have control over, say, breaking a bone, losing a limb, or being born with an autoimmune disorder. Genetic neurological disorders are a bit different, though. You don't have the choice of whether or not you have them, but you do have the choice whether or not to let them control your life and make you miserable."


ingnorant, naive and extremely offensive.

From a personal point of view, I don't fear death since I won't be there to experience it when it happens. But provoking it, I would be denying myself the only window I'll ever get on the universe, and I do find the universe interesting. So, I don't want to check out early. I do get that pain and suffering can be unbearable. But I think that, most of the time, it's possible to overcome it. I hope I'll always will. Sometimes it takes help. Sometimes it takes time. From a personal point of view, I also had to deal with the suicide of a loved one. He was bright, he was kind, he was unique... When he died, I believe that, that morning, the universe woke up a little dumber, and didn't even notice it. I wish that friend of mine had accepted help, had called, had let time do its work... I think the whole thing is a mess...

I don't condemn those who commit suicide, but I think that, in most cases, it's not the best solution.

Suicide could be an alternative but it's not a very good one

Last edited by Cesar on 28 Aug 2012, 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.