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Marybird
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27 Jan 2013, 2:26 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
Thanks Mary :) I assure you, there is more than a little of #20 :wink:

You're welcome.



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29 Jan 2013, 5:52 pm

Eloa wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
If you want an accurate answer I would have to say "I don't know" 20 times. My concept of self is not abstract, it is broken. But I'm not sure I'm understanding you're reply as you intended.


I do not understand a concept of self as well.
I learned, that I am biologically female, but I do not know how you have to feel "female", I feel nothing what gives a sense of female.
My name is ***** [edit: I got told that it can be dangerous to write your real name online and that I should edit it] and it is a word consisting out of three letters, where two are repeated in different order.
I often fail to respond someone calling this name, but I do forget about the name-letters as well and sometimes I remember them and in my mind I see this order of letters, but it is hard to attach a sense to an order of letters.
I dissolve into patterns that I see and I am dissolving in that pattern.
I am pattern when dissolving into a pattern.
I do stim and I am the tactile sensation I get from a stim without further thinking or elaborating this tactile sensation.
When walking outside I am overwhelmed with the sensations of an outside, like a car passing forms a picture by the round overwhelming noise and I become the round overwhelming noise for a moment, but it is a round overwhelming noise inducing fear.
When walking outside seeing my physical print in a shop window I see a reflection in a shop window.
My brother I have calls me "Schwester" (sister) and at that moment I am the word "Schwester" and I am surprised each time he calls me this and then it makes me smile each time he calls me this, because he always makes me laugh and his voice does remember me of the sensation of laughing.
I dissolve into the music or repeated fractions of the music in my head as long as it plays in my head, and when it does not play I do not.
But it often plays in my head.
With the music I see colors.
The avatar is my cat Tatu.


Your answers were extraordinarily useful to me because they were nearly all highly abstract, but you explained them very well. Thank you!

Your answers indicate that you have an abstract sense of self that is very difficult or impossible to explain to others. Some of your answers refer to states of being that are atypical and refer to perceptions that are not experienced by most other people. I would expect an answer like this from someone on the autism spectrum who has trouble figuring out some social norms and is likely to break social rules accidentally. You do not seem to have internalized much of a social sense of self. I would imagine that you experience a great deal of frustration in trying to communicate with people who don't know you because they probably can't understand your state of being.

Thank you again. Your answers were fascinating!



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29 Jan 2013, 6:05 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
1. human being
2. female
3. mother
4. wife
5. sister
6. aunt
7. niece
8. inhabitant of planet earth
9. mammal
10 two-legged creature
11. close relative of chimpanzees
12. a person with Asperger's
13. a person with sensory issues
14. a person with vestibular and proprioceptive issues
15. a person who takes things literally
16. a person who finds the humour of others difficult
17. a person who finds socialising very difficult
18. a person who struggles with empathy
19. a person who has emotional dysregulation
20. a part of the wonder of creation


Your answers suggest that your identity is based upon being a "social object," which means that your identity has more to do with physical facts and social roles rather than inner abstractions. Your answers also indicate that you are well aware of social norms and can act in social roles somewhat autonomously, meaning you can be social without "choosing" if you are obey or breaking a social norm. These were very interesting answers. I would have expected your answers from a female on the autism spectrum who is more successful at "passing" as NT.


Hmmn, not sure. When I answered this, I was unsure whether you wanted me to identify who am I as a thing or who am I as in my traits and personality, so I went with the former after a moment of doubt. I agree that I'm aware generally of basic social norms, but I struggle to fit into them and it causes me huge anxiety because it feels so unnatural. I am largely the passive subtype of Asperger's which means that clinically it is much harder to pick up the traits or identify problematic behaviour, I may do OK at passing as NT but I am very much not NT, and I'm very confused because you say "B-self identification requiring a reference to other people or a social institution, such as "I am a mother" and clearly I scored largely B's but then in another post on the thread you say "what I'm now thinking is that B answers are very NT", which is in conflict with what you said about my answers being a female on the spectrum who is more successful at passing as NT. I'm also unsure what you mean by "can act in social roles somewhat autonomously" and "be social without 'choosing' if you are obeying or breaking a social norm". Knowing (or more correctly, learning) what society expects is a very far step from being able to do those things either naturally or without a huge amount of effort and conscious cognitive effort, as well as stress.


I scored you as: A, A, B, B, B, B, B, A, A, A, A, B, C, C, C, C, C, C, C, A

Keep in mind that I need to do more research on this test, which is called the "Twenty Statements Test" and it originated in 1954. NT people score with a few As, then mostly Bs, and then perhaps a few Cs. They don't usually give D answers, but if they do it would be at the very end. If I just had the letters and not your answers, I would expect this to be someone who has internalized a sense that they are a physical object, which is more common with females in general. Your answers look SLIGHTLY off from NT to me, however, because you have a lot of Cs and because you go back to A answers after your Bs. I could believe that you're NT, but the presence of all those As and Cs tell me that you're a little more complex than NT people.

If you don't want to go back to the scoring post I put in page 2 or 3 of this thread, basically A means physical descriptions not referencing other people or a social institution, B means social role statements, C is emotions and interests, and D is statements about self that do not reference human institutions (like if you had said "I am the sound of the wind").



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29 Jan 2013, 6:13 pm

JeepGuy wrote:
I am a man.
I am a driver.
I am a gamer.
I am a philosopher.
I am a student.
I am a teacher.
I am samurai.
I am a cowboy.
I am a knight.
I am an observer.
I am a loner.
I am a member of a population that is like a virus in the grand scheme of the universe.
I am crazy.
I am a child.
I am at a loss of what else to write.
I am a dreamer.
I am tired.
I am at # 18.
I am lost.
I am found.


Your answers indicate that your sense of self is mostly role-based, or generated from society. I would have expected these answers from someone who is NT. I saw on your profile that you identify as AS, so I assume you're good at "passing" as NT. Someone who gives answers like this probably has a good sense of theory of mind. Your answers suggest that you are aware of social norms and can follow them without many mistakes.



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29 Jan 2013, 6:21 pm

Marybird wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers indicate that you naturally have more abstract thinking, but choose to obey social norms more often than not. I would have expected your answers from someone who was socialized to fit one or more social roles (this happens often in aspie females) but who naturally is not as much as a "chameleon" than other aspie females.

I think I understand the "chameleon" part, but "choose to obey social norms"? I must be getting better with age lol!


An example of choosing to obey a social norm would be knowing that you should bathe once every day or two, even if you don't feel like it. Or saying "Hello" when you greet someone even though "hello" is a fairly meaningless word. Some people are not aware of a lot of social norms so they only bathe when they want to and/or they never remember to say hello. Your answers indicate that you have learned to obey social norms even when they make little sense. And yes, the ability to see and obey social norms increases with age, although one's stress level can also increase by having to frequently do things that are uncomfortable to them.



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29 Jan 2013, 6:27 pm

singularity wrote:
I am
1. an artist
2 awkward
3.inconsistent
4. counterintuitive
5. curious
6. determined
7. long and skinny (all long arms and elbows)
8.organised
9. obsessive
10. oblique
11.alliterative
12 sky blue pink

13. alone
14 singular
15 ab negative
16 dirty
17 overlooked
18.intelligent
19 sweet and salty
20 perpetually perplexed


Your answers suggest that you have a fairly abstract sense of self. I would guess, based on these answers, that you are mostly able to obey social norms, but sometimes fail to be socially appropriate, either on purpose or accidentally. I would have guessed that you were somewhere on the autism spectrum from your answers.



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29 Jan 2013, 6:40 pm

rebbieh wrote:
1. I am me.
2. I am a human being.
3. I am alive.
4. I am curious.
5. I am female.
6. I am order and I am chaos.
7. I am a scientist.
8. I am an introvert and I like spending time by myself.
9. I am a pessimist.
10. I am a "people pleaser".
11. I am a student.
12. I am a puzzle solver.
13. I am obsessive.
14. I am quiet.
15. I am anxious.
16. I am a thinker.
17. I am easily distracted.
18. I am rigid.
19. I am emotional (I struggle with regulating my emotions) and I am logical.
20. I am different.


Your answers were half role-referencing and half abstract. This would suggest to me that you are aware of social norms and able to follow them without many mistakes. I would imagine that you are able to "pass" as NT, however I'm not sure your answers are indeed NT. Your answers look to me to be conflicted. Meaning that you can function in NT society but perhaps have more depth than most NTs. I would say that you could actually decide for yourself how you identify neurologically. I would not have expected your answers.



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29 Jan 2013, 6:54 pm

icyfire4w5 wrote:
Hi, I don't really know how to describe myself so I ended up reading through my old posts on WP for inspiration.

1. I can communicate in two languages--English and Chinese (Mandarin).
2. I know many History lovers who love Geography too. Unlike them, my special interests mostly revolve around History, yet I hardly have any interest in Geography.
3. When I was still a kid, I took personality quizzes on Quizilla nearly every day. I even wrote my results down on paper.
4. As an Asian, I'm supposed to live with my family until the day I marry.
5. I'm a "night owl".
6. Some people always complain to me that they always feel very sleepy after lunch. I'm usually at my most alert after lunch.
7. Some people (both Aspies and NTs) have rebuked me for parroting people's opinions. I admit that I usually have a hard time forming my own opinions.
8. I'm an introvert, meaning that even if my conversation with you has gone well, I still need to spend some time alone after the conversation to "recharge my batteries", otherwise I tend to feel tired.
9. I prefer writing to speaking. I can write very fluently, yet I don't really like how my own voice sounds. Some people had told me bluntly that they thought that my monotonous and whiny voice was such a turn-off.
10. In alphabetical order, my top three favorite Disney princesses are Aurora, Belle and Mulan.
11. My favorite fairytale is "The Wild Swans" by Hans Christian Anderson about a princess who knitted shirts for her brothers using stinging nettles so as to break some spell over them.
12. I'm female, but in terms of appearance, I resemble my father more than my mother.
13. My Sun sign is Taurus. I can't recall my Rising sign and my Moon sign.
14. I always do my best to arrive on time, but the sad thing is that I sometimes arrive too early and often arrive too late.
15. I have a tendency to blurt out opinions that offend people, maybe because I feel that if I always remain as quiet as a mouse I might "explode" one day. (E.g. I once offended some people because I had expressed sympathy for murderers such as Cho Seung-hui.)
16. I'm ambivalent towards babies. On one hand, I think that most babies seem so cute. On the other hand, babies irritate me when they cry non-stop in public places.
17. I'm neutral towards most animals, meaning that I neither love them nor hate them. I used to love cats more than dogs, but nowadays, I'm equally neutral towards both cats and dogs.
18. I have a tendency to skim through newspapers, maybe this is why I always miss interesting news out despite reading newspapers almost every day.
19. I hate getting into conflicts because of my hot temper. When a conflict gets too hot for me to handle, sometimes I end up erupting just like a volcano.
20. I admit that I have lots of pet peeves. One pet peeve is people who ask one rhetorical question after another when speaking in public.


I'm not sure if your answers are valid, since you seem to have thought about them too much and even "studied" for this test. lol! The answers you gave indicated a fairly abstract sense of self, but again, I cannot accurately code the answers you gave. The most interesting part of your answers was the fact that you felt you needed to study for the test. I would have expected this from someone with AS and more likely a female because women with AS often have a "chameleon" approach to their selves. I would wager a guess that aspie females have this function of changing self because of the strong messages in both Western and Eastern societies for females to act certain ways. I think this pressure tends to be successful in NT females to internalize the identity society gives them, but it doesn't "stick" as well with aspie females, who seem to be less influenced by society. I have not studied females on the spectrum very much, so I could be wrong.



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29 Jan 2013, 7:00 pm

Daniel_8964 wrote:
I- I am a gamer geek
II- I am a music geek
III- I am a film geek
IV- I am a artist
V- I am a shining free spirited soul
VI- I am a people pleaser
VII- I am capable of not being a people pleaser, but it's hard and I am dependant.
VIII- I am autistic as in Aspergers.
IX- I am a musician
X- I am weird and eccentric :twisted:
XI- I am creative
XII- I am somewhat of a daydreamer
XIII- I am a computer geek and magic the gathering player
XIV- I am clumsy and naive, yet lazy
XV- I am a fashion designer
XVI- I am brave and honest
XVII- I am sensitive and soft
XVIII- I am a fun and a funny person
XIX- I am sometimes shy and quiet, yet a recluse and introvert
XX- I am a thinker as in broad ways (pessimism, optimism, intelligence/knowledge and facts)

Limit- 20//20

Used up all 20 points stating my personality...... Done.


Your answers indicate that your identity is mostly role-based, but with aspects of abstract concepts incorporated in your self. Someone who answers like this is probably able to obey social norms most of the time, sometimes autonomously and sometimes choosing to obey norms. I would have expected your answers from someone NT or with light AS.



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29 Jan 2013, 7:28 pm

chamthabo wrote:
1. I am Thai
2. I am male
3. I am computer engineering student
4. I am a lazy man
5. I like cats very much
6. But I don't like dogs.
7. I am trying to talk to people better
8. I have ASD
9. I am a bit isolated
10. I am not very good in English
11. I love everything about Japan
12. I have 2 semi friends
13. My dream is that I can live with people and still be myself
14. I love this forum
15. I am trying not to spend too much time with computer
16. My mind and thought can be changed easily and quickly
17. I current interest is star watching and try to recognize constellations
18. I don't know any aspies in real life and want to know some.
19. I can talk very openly with my mother
20. For the last, I like you because of this topic you made and a cat in your profile :D


Nihongo o hanamasu desu ka? Your answers suggest someone with a fairly abstract self. I would guess that you are able to "choose" to obey social norms, but may sometimes fail to do so. I would have expected your answers from someone with AS.

Thank you for liking my topic! And my kitten! Her name is Debra and she's the pet of my dog. :) I hope to make this topic an actual sociological study in the next year or two!



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29 Jan 2013, 7:44 pm

scarp wrote:
1. I am a strange boy.

2. I do not know how I am strange.

3. I have minimalist tendencies.

4. I like chocolate milk.

5. I go for long walks, and I especially like walking at night.

6. I cannot connect with most people.

7. I feel like I am going crazy.

8. I really need my own space, organized in such a way that brings me peace.

9. I cannot see where I will be in ten years, or even five years.

10. I am an alien.

11. I wish that real world responsibilities didn't pull me so naggingly out of my mental space.

12. Sometimes I stare at the ceiling for hours.

13. I feel uncomfortable talking about myself.

14. I wish I was far away from everyone who loves me, in a city I've never been to and living in a castle I can call my own.

15. I wish I had infinite money, so as to easy bypass responsibilities I don't care for and buy "friends" that I can call and dismiss as needed.

16. Part of me is worried that I am too cold and distant from the things that are supposed to matter, but the rest of me doesn't care.

17. The previous sentence is a lie. I'm actually not very worried at all.

18. If asked to define myself, I would struggle. I'm not sure that I have much of a personality.

19. I am what most would call a "good person," in that I appear kind and don't mind helping people with their problems, but the truth is that I don't feel any particular way about humans.

20. I do not feel that I have adequately explained myself in these 20 statements.

~~~

I haven't looked at anyone else's posts before making this in order to maintain the integrity of your test, so I'm very nervous about hitting submit. :oops:


Thank you for following the directions so closely. :) Your answers indicate a highly abstract sense of self. I would guess that you often make mistakes in following social norms, which can lead to social rejection. I also would imagine that having a very abstract sense of self is frustrating when trying to communicate with other people, who are not likely to understand you.

I have noticed that people with very abstract selves are able to see a lot of possibilities for what I mean with my coding, so I'll define the terms I'm using more flatly. An abstract self may be very difficult or even impossible to define because your state of being may include perceptions that other people do not experience. Therefore there may not be words available for things you are able to perceive. A social norm might be something like wearing clothes appropriate for an occasion or waving to say hello/goodbye/to get attention. There is little purpose in dressing a certain way or in waving, but most people perform these actions because they have a sense that they are supposed to. One might forget to obey a norm, like wave, purposefully disobey a norm, like to wear what you usually wear because its comfortable even though you know you're expected to dress differently. People on the spectrum or otherwise socially rejected are less likely to obey social norms, whether on purpose or by accident.



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29 Jan 2013, 8:29 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
JeepGuy wrote:
I am a man.
I am a driver.
I am a gamer.
I am a philosopher.
I am a student.
I am a teacher.
I am samurai.
I am a cowboy.
I am a knight.
I am an observer.
I am a loner.
I am a member of a population that is like a virus in the grand scheme of the universe.
I am crazy.
I am a child.
I am at a loss of what else to write.
I am a dreamer.
I am tired.
I am at # 18.
I am lost.
I am found.


Your answers indicate that your sense of self is mostly role-based, or generated from society. I would have expected these answers from someone who is NT. I saw on your profile that you identify as AS, so I assume you're good at "passing" as NT. Someone who gives answers like this probably has a good sense of theory of mind. Your answers suggest that you are aware of social norms and can follow them without many mistakes.


A fun and interesting experiment. 8)

I might be biased a little when it comes to societies. I’ve been in school all my life learning to be an archaeologist/historian/linguist (working on my PhD): so I understand many societies and wish I could live in the past; but I can’t say I understand today’s societies. I probably do pass as NT most of the time, at least in academic settings, though I speak very, very rarely with people outside of academia since I tend to misread them. Most people I have known would probably be just called acquaintances. I’ve never really known anyone I would call a true friend; and from there I’ve also never been able to form any sort of sexual relationship with any girl: in fact I’m 32 and have yet to kiss a girl, even though I do want to. I might be NT, and I might have other issues, but it was a psychiatrist who recently suggested AS to me before I even knew what it was.

Just a few comments concerning methodology: You might want to consider bias in the type of language someone chooses to use when describing himself or herself: e.g. a person might prefer to use nouns instead of adjectives; or a person might prefer short answers to long descriptions. Both of these might skew the prevalence of abstract conceptualization of self. I know that when I was answering I was trying to think of short one-word answers (sometimes using them as metaphors), partly because I was afraid of writing too much; kind of like when I’m with a group of colleagues and avoid saying much of anything.



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29 Jan 2013, 8:45 pm

I lead with my heart. I can be very logical, but if there is a mismatch, my heart always wins.
I tend to be too trusting.
I am not aloof and cold, though I appear to be to people who don't know me.
I believe that doing the right thing is more important than being right.
I am very forgiving.
I am a mother to two amazing kids.
I like to debate.
I think that most of the bad things that have happened to me were for a good reason.
I wear rose-colored glasses.
I cannot stand up for myself, but I can stand up for others.
I am not opposed to fist fighting if the other person started it.
I am gentle by nature.
I am prone to spending too much time fantasizing about an easier life.
I am very bad with money.
I think differently than most people.
I love the disorganization of my brain.
I hate the disorganization of my life.
I am creative.
I sometimes eat when I am not hungry.
I believe I will have to answer to God for the choices in my life. I am confident about a lot of it, not-so-much for the rest.


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29 Jan 2013, 9:07 pm

I was going back and reading the rest of this and now see you are referencing profiles. I should clarify: I 100% most definitely have ADD and I have some Aspie traits, though I do not believe I would be diagnosable. In fact, I am sure I am not. People who do not know me well probably do not "see" anything "wrong" with me, but most people who know me well know exactly where I struggle.


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29 Jan 2013, 9:12 pm

1. A student
2. Middle aged woman
3. Blonde
4. Mom
5. Artist
6. Poet
7. Philosopher
8. Coffee drinker
9. Small town girl
10. Tree lover
11. Bus rider
12. Book reader
13. Walker
14. Dog and Cat Mom
15. Custodian
16. Antagonistic agnostic autistic androgyno-femino-anarchist
17. Daydreamer
18. Thinker
19. Weird
20. Wife (grudging gender and societal constructs)


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30 Jan 2013, 2:21 am

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Marybird wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers indicate that you naturally have more abstract thinking, but choose to obey social norms more often than not. I would have expected your answers from someone who was socialized to fit one or more social roles (this happens often in aspie females) but who naturally is not as much as a "chameleon" than other aspie females.

I think I understand the "chameleon" part, but "choose to obey social norms"? I must be getting better with age lol!


An example of choosing to obey a social norm would be knowing that you should bathe once every day or two, even if you don't feel like it. Or saying "Hello" when you greet someone even though "hello" is a fairly meaningless word. Some people are not aware of a lot of social norms so they only bathe when they want to and/or they never remember to say hello. Your answers indicate that you have learned to obey social norms even when they make little sense. And yes, the ability to see and obey social norms increases with age, although one's stress level can also increase by having to frequently do things that are uncomfortable to them.

I see what you mean by obeying social norms now, and the ability to see them does increase with age. When I was a young adult I was in a very strange place. I roamed around in my own reality, completely oblivious to any concept of social behavior or being part of a society of people. It was like a gradual awakening from a dream to learn that I should acknowledge other people, to say hello and smile, but I could never act normal because I didn't understand normal, I was still all alone inside my own head. I survived any way I could, even if it was not socially acceptable or normal. becoming a welfare mother was not an accident. I learned to survive by doing things my way, and I still do try to survive by doing things my way, and I'm still all alone. When you are all alone, there is no other way. I worked all by myself on a night shift job for many years, I very rarely had contact with the other employees. I never knew any of them and they never knew me. I was not socialized to fit any social roles. There was no one here to socialize me. My parents just gave up on me because I was too "sick in the head". I socialized myself to live in my own world. I live outside the realm of socialization. I agree I am not a chameleon. I will not be anyone other than myself.