90% aspies have normal intelligence despite what they think

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LeftWeems
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16 Mar 2014, 9:28 pm

I've never doubted my intellectual ability. I've doubted with good reason my social and relationship ability though which is a different creature than intelligence.

ImAnAspie
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16 Mar 2014, 10:40 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

DevilKisses wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

For people with high verbal fluency, do you naturally have it from young age, or did you develop it as adult?

I think it's developed from a young age for most people. I have no idea when I started to talk, but I know I started to read when I was four years old. I think it's common for people with NVLD to learn to read even younger.

I was reading at the age of 5, and not just sounding out the words I actually read and understood what I was reading. But I never have been able to read out loud very well.

Confidence issue

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littlebee
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16 Mar 2014, 10:51 pm

Azureth wrote:

I always figured people saying those with Asperger's are "highly intelligent" has less to do with naturally being intelligent and more so to do with people with Asperger's simply being more obssessed/interested in certain subjects and since they are usually less social spend an inordinate amount of time knowing lots of facts/figures etc. that NT people generally don't. And I say that as someone who thinks I may have Asperger's.

I have been to quite a few aspie dialogues and could feel the smartness of these people. I could feel it by contact high or whatever you want to call it, my own brain getting smarter because of functioning in concordance with their brains.. It was very distinct. Had this experience again quite recently, and it was really powerful.. It was like I was with my own kind of brain...but was out of touch with my own smartness and these folks made me be smarter...an extraordinary experience, very exciting, even thrilling. I am sure there are several people on WP reading some of my messages who know me, as my communication style is recognizable, and I thank them for keeping my anonymity.

Last edited by littlebee on 16 Mar 2014, 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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16 Mar 2014, 11:06 pm

Tollorin wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Is it possible to have above average intelligence and have no ability to function in society though? And sometimes I really don't get things and feel my cognative abilities are impaired not always but i get that feeling a lot. Especially if I spend like 30 minutes in walmart or target or any of those I seriously become brain dead and confused grocery stores aren't much better either.

Of course this is possible! I would say there is a lot of peoples on WP that have difficulties to function while still having average or above average intelligence.

I also have co-morbid depression, anxiety and PTSD and sometimes those interfere with my cognitive functioning....but other things that do this are hot weather, being in a store like walmart or target for any longer than a half hour, being in a crowded area a and having too much time stuck in the crowd. So maybe I do have somewhat high intelligence but sometimes things impair it quite a bit.

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Si_82
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16 Mar 2014, 11:29 pm

screen_name wrote:

Si_82 wrote:

If correctly diagnosed, Asperger's required "average or above average intelligence". Not having AS does not come with any such caveat. Therefore, mathematically speaking the average intelligence of the AS population has to be higher than the average of the general population as the general population includes those with below average intelligence. Basic maths!

You've made a lot of assumptions there.

I made very few assumptions beyond the original post and the well established facts i think. I was trying to simply apply logic.

I stated that i was assuming cases where AS is 'correctly diagnosed'. Disregarding the fact that the diagnosis has now been retired, following the letter of the diagnostic literature, fully correct diagnoses does stipulate in no uncertain terms that a below average intelligence disqualifies diagnosis. I make no argument whatsoever about the merit of that clause. But, before DSM V, this was a key factor in differentiating AS from autism.

Can you say what other assumptions you think i have made as I was deliberately precise about dealing only with the facts and where they lead?

Cheers.

TLDR: Such as?

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cyberdad
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17 Mar 2014, 12:25 am

Rascal77s wrote:

In the overall scheme of things, the IQ threads are pointless because we just don't think like non-ASD people and the IQ tests are calibrated for non-ASD people. Instead of worrying about your IQ score focus on this subtests and improve on your weaknesses; that's the only thing IQ tests are useful for.

A good post. IQ tests such a the WAIS-IV, WISC-IV and WIPPSI were actually normed on middle class American children and adults from mainstream schools and usually employed. This issue of how biased (culturally, socio-economically and in emphasis) the questions are, needs to be addressed first before you even get to the question of it's applicability to people with ASD.

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17 Mar 2014, 5:50 am

linatet wrote:

It was said that they apparently appear intelligent because of their good long term memory and extensive research on interested topics.

I would think with those two traits you could be an absolute genius - the desire to extensively study something, and the memory capacity to retain that information.

Problem is we don't focus our attention on too many things at a time, I would think? I could tell you anything and everything you could ever want to know about my special interest, but I have no idea who the 11th president was, nor the engine components of my truck. I guess it depends on what's on these IQ tests.

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17 Mar 2014, 7:28 am

Si_82 wrote:

screen_name wrote:

Si_82 wrote:

You've made a lot of assumptions there.

Your largest assumption is that tested IQ spread in people diagnosed with AS is the same as it is in the general population. Existing studies contradict this assumption.

The_Walrus
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17 Mar 2014, 7:51 am

Verdandi wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

There's more to it than just the Dunning-Krueger effect.

Most people think they are above average in most ways. It isn't just an inability to judge their failing due to lack of knowledge about a subject, though that does affect people too. People tend to overestimate themselves in other areas too. For example, most people think they are more attractive than average (about a third of people under 30 rate themselves as a 9/10!). People also think they are less likely to get cancer than they really are, even if they are told how likely they are to get cancer! 80% of American parents acknowledge childhood obesity as a growing problem, but 84% think their children are a healthy weight (in reality, about a third of American children are obese).

These examples are completely irrelevant. Also, I think most people don't understand statistics but they think they do (Dunning-Kruger). Personal perceptions of attractiveness is not a matter of competence. People believe a lot of wrong things about obesity, diet, and exercise (also Dunning-Kruger) and thus blame people for being fat without ever knowing why said people are fat (which is just more Dunning-Kruger)..

The point of those examples was to show that people's skewed perceptions of their talents and qualities are more complicated than just the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Believing things that aren't true is not the Dunning-Krueger effect. A lack of knowledge is not the Dunning-Krueger effect. The Dunning-Krueger effect is very narrow, it's optimism plus poor Theory of Mind when applied to skills and abilities. There are many other human biases which skew our perceptions just as much. In this scenario, the Dunning-Krueger effect is important, but so is straight-up optimism. That's the importance of the attractiveness example.

littlebee
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17 Mar 2014, 10:41 am

btbnnyr wrote:

For people with high verbal fluency, do you naturally have it from young age, or did you develop it as adult?

I do not know if I want to go into it too much here, but this one person, Ann, I was speaking with on this other thread sounds like she has natural verbal fluency. I noticed and was impressed by this at the time. I could just feel she was easily making a certain alive connection in her brain that resulted in eloquence of speech, even though she said very little, and I think others could probably feel it, too.

Though I could speak at a normal age and started writing poetry when I was about six and as a teenager was read my poetry on the radio, I never had this, but had to struggle to develop it. Maybe that is why I wrote poetry, as a tool to help me think. (This is the first time this ever occurred to me, and for some reason is not a very pleasnat thought).

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5965025.html#5965025

And it should be mentioned that my writing style of the last fifteen years or so is deliberately contrived to create a certain affect of approaching idea content from both ends of the stick (and I did not get even get the idea to do this by myself, but was deliberately emulating someone else's writing style (wuilll go into who that person was here), and also I know how to switch from liquid to solid in affect and to create other affects, too,around writing. I do not do this in regular conversation, but should probably try to do so more.

Sweetleaf
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17 Mar 2014, 10:49 am

ImAnAspie wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

DevilKisses wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

For people with high verbal fluency, do you naturally have it from young age, or did you develop it as adult?

I was reading at the age of 5, and not just sounding out the words I actually read and understood what I was reading. But I never have been able to read out loud very well.

Confidence issue

Not really, more like getting words mixed up and just difficulty reading out loud not really sure what the deal is with it.

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Tuttle
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17 Mar 2014, 11:17 am

ImAnAspie wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

DevilKisses wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

For people with high verbal fluency, do you naturally have it from young age, or did you develop it as adult?

I was reading at the age of 5, and not just sounding out the words I actually read and understood what I was reading. But I never have been able to read out loud very well.

Confidence issue

There's a lot more than confidence that comes into play when reading out loud. For example, I have issues when reading out loud, because even trying to read as slow as I can, I'm constantly reading ahead of myself. My pronunciation problems also become more evident when I'm reading something than when I'm speaking without reading something, because of things like trying to keep track of where I am.

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17 Mar 2014, 11:18 am

Azureth wrote:

I think so too.
For instance, there is this famous Picture of na aspie boy builiding chemical structures. People probably get very amazed and say he is incredibly inteligente, more inteligente than high school students that are failing chemistry. Well, if he spends 6 hours a day doing research on chemical structures and other boys spend 1 hour a week studying it, it is more than natural and expected that he will know much more chemistry. It actually doesn't necessarily mean intelligence.

Quote:

I would think with those two traits you could be an absolute genius - the desire to extensively study something, and the memory capacity to retain that information.

I totally disagree. Being able to memorize things doesn't mean being inteligente. Then computers would be utmostly inteligente and that is not the case.
Intelligence for me has to do with the ability to analyze and associate ideas.
Of course being curious and liking to learn and do research is a plus.

Lots of people here are discussing iq tests but I think you can usually see if a person is inteligente or not if you spend some time with them. You can notice by the things they think, do, say, how they analyze and associate and create things and ideas. High iq score or not, déficits in some áreas or not. Here in wp for instance you can notice lots of inteligente people by their answers, even if they have some kind of difficulty expressing themselves. Lots of experts may be able to say most aspies have normal intelligence (or not) even if iq tests on aspies don't work.

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17 Mar 2014, 11:59 am

btbnnyr wrote:

For people with high verbal fluency, do you naturally have it from young age, or did you develop it as adult?

I was always a good reader, but anxiety and lack of interest in socializing meant I wasn't a very good talker, at least not until college.

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btbnnyr
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17 Mar 2014, 12:23 pm

Lots of intelligent people don't have good memories.

Amongst gifted people, some studies have shown VCI/PRI > WMI/PSI gap.

Motor processing speed and cognitive processing speed are important to distinguish in processing speed in ASD. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have slow motor, because I have drawn and written super fast from young age. But some other children with ASD have significant motor problems, eggsp. with writing with pencil.

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Sweetleaf
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17 Mar 2014, 12:46 pm

Tuttle wrote:

^this

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