What do you find confusing about the "NT World"?

Post Reply New Topic

How their friendships operate. Social stuff running smoothly/fewer missed cues or signals or messy faux pas.

How NT's can do or say whatever they want and that's alright, but as soon as I do or say the same thing it's wrong.

Disgust is something I could never understand. 'They' seem to believe, one animal is cute, one is food, one is vermin, and that these are non-interchangeable. Certain bodily fluids are worse than others, certain bodily functions require excusing, and some, despite being perfectly natural, are not permitted in a social situation. Oh and I think they think humans are not animals.

The way they automatically understand social cues and what to talk about in conversations.

The fact that I have no idea to act at any given time, and feel like I'm always drifting; looking for cues externally, asking myself "how do I feel now?" ...and trying hard to scan and find something so that I don't purposely look "awkward" in front of others....the fact that I have to do this, feeling like I'm constantly drifting and don't have a sense of self.
I could go into a situation perfectly balanced and calm, poised...as soon as the sht hits the fan and I'm in front of others - the way they act and the particularities of the situation are so different than what I had "imagined in my head and planned out" ......that I find them nearly incompatible, and am forced to adapt and improvise (against my will) lest I be a complete social outcast in the situation. Then I have the feeling that I am selling myself out - selling myself short, for a buck.


It's almost better to stay home.

I wish I could meet a girlfriend or friends that just understood me. Also, I feel a lot of the things described as "NT" are American NT and not Universal NT. In other words - I feel this is the shittiness of living in America. I find a lot of europeans much easier to talk to and get along with, mostly because they show an interest in actually getting to know you and go past and beneath the superficial talk; ie because that is how they are socialized, they are real people. I think a lot of the messed up cultural dynamics make this a lot harder, and it isn't necessarily because we are autistic. I find American superficial "acting" culture exhausting and extremely unfulfilling, because the idea is to always be flitting along on the surface and never get too deep; whereas when I do interact with my European friends in the way they are used to, in public here, I get funny akward stares because I think - people are not accustomed to the closeness and realness ....as if to say "what are you doing?" ....."you're not supposed to step out of the matrix like that.", almost as if they are thinking we are gay or something, together . (These awkward looks, which are constant and enduring .......are something I absolutely cannot stand). I don't know why we make it like this here. It's like I'm constantly playing in a game that I don't like, when fulfillment is right in front of us - but no one is willing to open up to it.

I needed to be born outside of America.

Whathappened, your post is interesting to me because I found the opposite was true of me. I was born and raised in England, UK, and I emigrated to the USA and lived there for most of my adult life.

I actually found it easier to operate in American society because of that "acting" thing in the culture! I felt that the superficiality made it easier to function socially because it seemed to me that people were mostly working to a script, and that made it permissible for me to do the same. And scripts made me feel like I had been freed!

I knew exactly what to say in response to the person on the store checkout, for one example, because what they said was a formula and I just needed to reply formulaically too. Or meeting people socially -- I noticed that that was formulaic to a certain extent too.

I can't speak for the whole of Europe because "Europe" is actually made up of many different countries who each retain distinct cultures that are often as different as night and day from each other.

But in the UK, or specifically England, there is less formulaic speech -- but I find that makes for very awkward encounters, not easier ones! Checkout people in stores here are not taught a script to say to customers, and it produces horribly awkward moments. You may not even get a "Hello," and then you're left wondering if you should say it anyway. If you do, sometimes you just get an annoyed glare from the cashier-- it just all feels very uneasy.

I LOVED my life in America because that scripted society made there be one less thing for me to worry about socially. In England everyone is "You all right?" "Uh, yeah, you?" Blank stare. Seriously, American society was easier for me because adopting scripts of polite interaction released me.

That's very interesting perspective because,having grown up in america, I grew tired of the scripted polite interactions. It's now resulted in me giving odd reactions to small talk questions, i.e.:

Them: How was your weekend?
Me: Pretty good except for that alien invasion.

I have similar experience.
I believe that American culture has provided an environment that has allowed much accelerated evolution of the hive mind.

All I know is, when there are scripts involved, it takes some of the pressure out of random social interactions. Having lived for very long years in both America and England, England is definitely the sh!ttier experience and more stressful when out in public.

Beware of "grass is greener" thinking unless you've gone and found out for yourself.

I had a 20 year military career so I have found out.
I find that people treat you more human when they know that you do not speak the same language or have been brainwashed by the same culture. They are more accepting of differences.
You don't get punished for not knowing the proper script for the day.

I'm confused by how cold they are to people who are a little 'different'. I do not understand the personal gain achieved by being brusque if you're a little weird.

NT communications, even typed, are confusing. People speak almost in shortcuts - there is little explanation or spelling out of certain things. When I used to frequent chatrooms, for instance, I found the brevity and implicitness of the communication perplexing. And the lightning speed with which others responded, also in a coded way.

I do not understand the obsession with image, the self-grooming of minute expressions and non-verbals. Some people seem obsessed with being graceful or smooth, or they have trained themselves to be that way over time.

I find it confusing how other people can be rude to me, and no one pays it any attention, but if I say something back to them, all of a sudden people act like I'm being a horrible b***h and the other person is totally innocent.

Or how men can say stuff really direct and to the point, and other people respond back like they are just having a normal conversation, but if I do the same thing people respond like they are put off or offended.

Or how a person can be totally evasive with me, and won't give me a straight answer about something, and they can drag it out for weeks or months and I'm supposed to be totally okay with that, but the minute I gently press them for a definite answer they act like I'm being impatient and pushy. Like when customers string me along for months telling me they don't know if they want to sign a contract or not, right up to the deadline for signing.

My guess is that the first one is because you're not in the in-group; you're not "normal", not "one of us", so you get less social leeway.
The second one is likely straight-up sexism; stereotypically, men can be direct, and women can't, because women are supposed to care for everyone's feelings.
The third is probably partly customers being a***holes, an odd social phenomenon I have yet to understand which probably has to do with the fact that employees aren't allowed to retaliate. It may also involve hypocrisy. The person stringing you along isn't a reliable indicator of whether you're being socially acceptable; they might just be acting as if you're being pushy to get you to drop the subject. I don't know, though.

This^. i never could put it in quite those exact words, before - but I definitely thought the same thing. I grew up as a military BRAT, and I got to travel around the world, experience many cultures. I spent some time in Turkey, and in Germany. I always, always felt that social interaction was much, much smoother over there than it is here in America. The freeness with which people express themself was astonishing to me- and refreshing. I had to really try hard to let myself go and, relax - and give up my "American-ness", because everybody else was so relaxed, and the communication close and warm. It felt truly amazing and it's a feeling I have yet to get here. That's the one reason I want to go back. When I came back during highschool, the shock of culture change brought on huge depression, much of which I'm still dealing to the present day.

The scripted, polite conversations get old - and if you're used to real communication, they get in the way. That's all that they do. They really, really get in the way. I found the shallowness and skin-deepness here very, very hard to adjust to and tolerate, I still struggle with it. i was used to much deeper communication, and constantly have this feeling of "drowning, or suffocating" here. It's awful. I'd like very much to return to Europe...as I liked so many other things about that place. I'd go to Germany, Austria or something like that. I'm not even opposed to Eastern Europe. I've talked with people from there, and I find I get along with them very well.

I'm male and I find that I don't get away with being direct, so perhaps it's something allowed more to charismatic males.
If so then this would mean the allowances are based on hierarchy and not sex. In fact it could be that all the points you made are primarily linked to position in hierarchy.

It could be that we generally do not recognize hierarchy, and so do not actively fight for a position in it, which would explain why others automatically place us at the bottom of their perceived hierarchy.

Basically the idea is that you have to "game" for power, or people just assume that you have no power.
The concept that everyone is human and should be treated equally is completely foreign to them, even though they may say the words.

I've always sensed stuff like this was happening, but - it's just not something that gets talked about along the way. I resent feeling like I have to be a part of a hierarchy, when I could give a s**t about it. I guess most people don't have to or they just, figure it out. It's funny to read people saying things like this; things I've felt for my entire life but never have put to words.
I've always felt abused by people, too. I've always felt manipulated, kind and generous, only to be taken advantage of - told I'm really "nice" and have people basically discount and disregard me - as if I was some kind of social loser.

I've always felt I had social skills, but maybe I've just told myself this - just to make myself feel better. I knew I definitely struggled when I was younger before I had any defense mechanisms built up. Now I can lie to myself and tell myself things to make myself feel better, which obscures the issues. It's good for me to think of these things, but painful. I feel hopeless. It feels like you're just at the bottom of a mountain with no way in - even as an adult.

But I've always wondered, if there's just something generally different and less hierarchical about relationships overseas. I say it time and time again, I feel I can get along, understand and relate better with foreign people; people from Iran, Russia, Turkey, to name a few. The ones I talk to as friends and come to know (I won't talk to anybody I don't like or want to) have shown general warmth and compassion, and interest ...there's no sense of backstabbing, untrust or manipulation that I get here in America, most of he time.

My hunch has always been, and I could be wrong - that it has to do with capitalism and how we're raised, always competing and striving to be on top. I've also thought that immigration and multiculturalism have something to do with the discordance here in society.