I have a question to ask autistic people

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auntblabby
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31 Aug 2016, 8:17 pm

^^^hiya Q welcome to WP

ASS-P
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31 Aug 2016, 8:19 pm

...Well..........." Happy-talking " is tempting :roll: :arrow: ...........

katy_rome wrote:

All replies hugely appreciated. I have a son who I recently discovered is autistic, far from being sad about this I am very happy. I've always known he was special and needed certain things (and not others, like going to school for example), in order to thrive.

It seems to me that autism is NOT defined by lack of empathy, far from it. I would almost like to re-name 'autism', since it implies illness, and it seems to me it only becomes a withdrawal from the world (specially from other people) when people born with these exceptional qualities are faced with aggravating environmental and social factors.

So my question is this, I only have experience of my son, though I've read a lot and seen a lot of youtube vids from autistic people...

Is it true what I believe, that rather than not having empathy, autistic people are instead born with EXCEPTIONAL EMPATHETIC AND SENSORY SKILLS? (empathy which extends not just to people, if not inhibited, but also to animals, objects, the world around..)

Thank you for all and any replies!!

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katy_rome
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01 Sep 2016, 1:07 am

NiqueN wrote:

For me, that is true. I am an extremely loving and caring person. I love and care about people that I don't even know. Mostly because I have been through a lot, so I can understand most of the things that people go through and how it makes them feel. My family is the opposite, we don't get along well, mostly because they say and think my problems aren't real, and they can't understand why I care so much. I also have extremely good hearing, which drives me insane, very sensitive skin etc. I wish you could have been my mom, because you see Autism as the beauty it is. Please never make your son feel like he is a mistake, and please do as much research as you can to understand better, and make sure that you listen to him when he tries to talk about feelings. I am very loving, but I don't ever get any love back from my family, which hurts me so much, so always show him that you love him because chances are he'll feel like he's unloveable sometimes.

NiqueN, thank you for your incredibly touching message!! I think it is good to care a lot. Otherwise why are we living?? And thank you for the comment about being your mum, that is really moving ! !! !

yes sometimes he may seem unlovable - to others not me - and I have had a word (well a few words) about this to my sister, my mum, but overall my husband who does NOT understand, as it is SO IMPORTANT for our son to feel loved and accepted, unconditionally, and he will feel it very very deeply, if he is not, or if some stupid social expectations get in the way of his intentions being understood. However as he loves me and our children very much, he is willing to listen (okay, he may sometimes forget to listen till I start yelling, but that only neeeds a few seconds to get his attention), and I've written a checklist for him about our son and how to interpret stuff

katy_rome
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01 Sep 2016, 1:09 am

kavya wrote:

I loved a guy deeply..but i parted ways with him..he knows me very well.My life used to be happy when i was with him..Nowadays i have trouble expressing my feelings

Kavya, I am sorry, and I hope that love will come again for you.

katy_rome
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01 Sep 2016, 1:17 am

BirdInFlight wrote:

I want to second NiqueN's comments to katy_rome about how great it is that she is this loving to her son, because there may come times when he may not feel lovable because of a challenge, etc. When I was a child, I felt unlovable, and although my mother was a good, kind, loving person, sadly her coping skills sometimes made her treat me as unlovable too, or even tell me that I was.

Can katy_rome be my mum too please? :lol:

Bit awkward as I'm older than her but I still need a mum sometimes, hahaha!

BirdinFlight, I've thought tonnes about your lovely message in the last days as we've whizzed about as usual, this is one of the kindest things anyone has ever said to me, so touching that when I think about it tears come to my eyes and I smile about it. My husband is not able to give me a huge amount of support, he works so much and we're in a foriegn country. This group is amazing.

I made a little foray into the parents forums and scooted out of there pretty fast. I briefly read a discussion about how many days' punishment one should give ones 9-year old (!) felt sick, and got out of there fast. They may not all be like that but I didn;t stay to find out. I am sorry for any child who has even the smallest bit of this kind of judegment and misunderstanding in their lives, or any grown-up who had it when they were little. I feel at home here, with you guys. You're all so lovely, sweet, open, honest ! !! !

Hyperborean
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01 Sep 2016, 3:46 am

^

If you haven't worked it out already, you need to be aware that the whole question of parenting children on the spectrum has become highly politicised, and influenced by all manner of pseudo-scientific trends that desperate, isolated parents tend to cling to in the absence of any other support. Your brief visit to the parents' forum sounds fairly typical of this.

From what you've said, you already have the right instincts when it comes to loving and supporting your son in what is still, unfortunately, a world that has yet to fully understand and accept neurodiversity. So I think your best option is to do what comes naturally; and, when your family and friends struggle, or fall short (as we all do sometimes), you are going to have to have the strength to set an example to them. In fact you seem to be doing this already.

katy_rome
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07 Sep 2016, 2:04 pm

Quarkyness wrote:

Yes. For me a. I care a huge amount about people, more than a lot of other people do. Often, I have been called selfish. I was never really selfish though. It's not an emotional problem. I just have a hard time being aware of others and their feeling, or understanding where they're coming from if I haven't experienced what they're experiencing, or i just don;t know how to connect with others. Also, sometimes I can get caught on one idea of topic, and grab hold of it and spin on it, no able to see anything else but that. None of this is not having empathy, but it comes off that way to people. b. Sensory problems are HUGE. For me, the world around me is often extremely confusing, overwhelming, and painful. It's like my brain takes in too much around me and then can't handle it all at once sometimes. This means I'm often very uncomfortable. I've found my own ways of dealing with it that work well for me, and everyone has their things. Anyways, I hope this helps. I hope it helps. If you need any help with resources or questions, you can ask me.

darned Ipad, keep posting things twice.. sorry

Last edited by katy_rome on 07 Sep 2016, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

katy_rome
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07 Sep 2016, 2:05 pm

Quarkyness wrote:

Quarkyness, thanks it does help. And you answered on both counts, sensory and empathy, very self-aware, and extremely helpful to me. Yes to the resources! Hyperborean gave me a couple of very good tips for books, I've read 'Far from the Tree' and i'm in the middle of 'Neurotribes'.. both brilliant, also I've been going crazy in internet and Youtube, as you can imagine. I've also ordered a few more books loke 'reasonable people', 'the reason i jump', and I'm rather addicted to Alfie Kohn at the moment as I think he's a genius dressed up in 'rational' clothing ..

The thing that is being most problematic to me is understanding, trying to understand, the significance of environmental factors, I'm mainly concerned with emotional input so parenting, close relationships, education, and style of living, in particular, on the emergence of certain feelings in aspergers people, like fear, overwhelm, and withdrawal. From the many stories I've read it seems there must be a connection, also from my own experiences.

SO ANOTHER QUESTION, to all those who might have time and inclination to give me an answer.... (thanks again in advance!!)
Is there any factor/s in your life, anything that was happening at certain points, that you think may have influenced you, and how freely and positively you were able to live your life and be happy and comfortable in different situations? If you sensed yourself withdrawing, do you know why, and if anything could have helped you at that point?

Thank you again to all of you!
Some of you have already answered quite a bit of the above question by telling your stories. These stories are invaluable to me.

AnonymouslyAutistic
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07 Sep 2016, 2:32 pm

I am extra sensitive to everything including empathy but my empathy works differently than NT people's.

I have a problem being aware of feelings and emotions in my body. I have to pay careful attention to know even how I feel other than if I am feeling good or bad. So with that in mind - not knowing how I feel makes it hard for me to know how anyone else feels BUT I instead of consciously feeling other's emotions or even being aware of them I FEEL their emotions.

If I am in a room with an anxious or angry person my emotions match the energy of the room like a chameleon on a wall. The problem is that I may not be aware that this shift has happened and suddenly I am pissed off or agitated for "no reason".

Hope that helps.

I wrote more on my blog about this but I don't think I am allowed to post a link to it since I am a newbie and don't want to make anyone mad here.

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Writing is therapy, and unfortunately I am not ready to come out of the “Autistic Closet” just yet. Hopefully something that I have to share might be helpful to you in your life.

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https://anonymouslyautistic.net/

katy_rome
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07 Sep 2016, 2:52 pm

questor wrote:

My own experience is mostly like BirdInFlight, but I also have trouble feeling emotionally connected to people, which makes things worse. I don't love people, but sometimes do like them. I used to be able to have strong feelings for animals, and still like them, but now I don't have strong feelings for them, either. However, I do empathize, and sympathize with people and animals. Much of the feeling is in the abstract mode, though.

I find strong emotional output from others, even positive ones, hard to take, so I tend to keep my inner self isolated from them. I find being an introverted hermit is best for me, but that may not be the same for others on the spectrum.

Like Kiriae, I sometimes talk to the inanimate objects in my home, and no I don't imagine that they are alive and talking back. I live alone, so this is a way to have a kind of pseudo, or surrogate, social contact that is within my abilities to handle, as the inanimate objects don't overload me with their own emotions, since they don't have any. I actually do have a couple of favorites, too. Almost from the moment I got them, I have been fond of, and sometimes talk to my two canes, as they help me get around, and help reduce the pain of my two bad knees. I even gave them names. They are still objects, but there is no harm in amusing myself by talking to them. Sometimes I will say "Excuse me" or other polite phrases when encountering objects in my home, too. Hey, when you live alone, and are mostly house bound, and don't have a pet, ya gotta talk to someone! This occasionally causes problems when relatives drop by unexpectedly, or arrive while I am in another part of my home. They will hear me talking to someone other than them, and wonder what's going on, as there is no one else there but them and me. You would think after several decades of life, they would remember that I am in the habit of talking to myself, as I also have a tendency to think aloud.

As for relatives dropping by and coming in on me, yes, some of them have keys to my place. I have several health issues, so they need to be able to get in should there ever be an emergency. Also, my father and step mother own my trailer home, so they can come in to check on things. While I would prefer less contact with my relatives, at least I do live alone, so it's better than any other place I've lived in.

I know I do have empathy, as I tend to feel strong emotions from other people and animals, but it tends to stress me out, so I put up a wall inside myself to distance myself from the stressful situation. One example is that some years ago a relative had a very bad break-up when she found out her boyfriend was married. She came approx 150 miles to the home my mother and I were living in at the time, and stayed for a couple of days freaking out and weeping. In the abstract, I understood why she felt that way, and it was uncomfortable to be around her strong emotional output, but I still didn't feel connected to her. I just tried to keep some physical distance while she was there, partly to keep from feeling her upsetness so much, and partly to keep from saying or doing anything that might make her more upset. Many years before that I attended a family funeral for a war vet cousin who had committed suicide. I could feel the strong upset feelings from his parents, and from an aunt and uncle that he had lived with for a while when he was younger. The strong upset feelings coming from these people were very hard for me to take, but I had to be there, as I was my mother's driver for the occasion. The irony of the situation is that I don't even remember the cousin who died. There was a big age difference, and we lived in different states. I think I may have met him once when I was a small child, but I don't remember doing so, and yet there I was years later having to feel everyone else's grief over his death. Yes, I am sorry he died, but when other people in close proximity are having strong emotions, they broadcast them "loudly" in a kind of psychic radio wavelength, which tends to overwhelm me. Based on my own research, I know that many others on the spectrum have this problem, too. I can't turn this "radio" down, so I have to distance myself from it. Sometimes I can physically go away, but that's not always possible. When I must stay nearby, then I try to put up a psychic screen to wall off, and muffle some of the "loud" feelings of the people nearby. I realize that this makes me seem emotionally distant, but I have to shield myself from this excessive "noise."

I do feel bad when bad things happen to others elsewhere, like the flooding going on in other parts of the country right now, or the news stories about people getting attacked, sometimes by muggers, sometimes by terrorists, or family members. Basically any kind of story of people getting hurt, sick, or killed leads me to feel this way. I also feel glad or happy when I encounter positive news stories, too.

Personally, I don't believe that people on the Autism spectrum are not empathetic or sympathetic. I think it just boils down to two main things:

> Lack of ability to connect to others.

> Lack of ability to handle the stress of strong emotions in others, so we tend to distance ourselves from the stressful situation by trying to shut out the experience.

This often gives the rest of the world a false impression that we have no empathy. Also, we sometimes have trouble understanding other people's feelings.

Hope this helps.

Questor, yes this does help. Specially the detail, I find this really interesting .. I just posted another question on this thread, which was also prompted by re-reading your message more carefully (I'm travelling so till now hadn't had the chance).

Basically I'm obsessed with the question: why??
why would this clearly very insightful and deep empathy, and the sensory extremes, so feeling things deeply, and differently from others, often in greater depth and detail, lead to not connecting to others and not being able to read or relate to other people? Doesn't it seem ironic?

It seems to me, that there is much more that can be done to guide parents, educators, society, employers along a path that would lead to better places.. for everyone. I'm certainly not into blaming anyone for not doing things right (if i did that, I better start with myself), but I wish I could somehow get this onto the radar of those who are trying god-knows-what in desperate attempts to 'cure' something that was never an illness, in particular other parents. All parents love their kids, it's just some don't have the support, the strength, the time, the love and nurture they needed themselves to be really self-confident people, and they're overloaded and overwhelmed, and inundated with 'expert' advice and ministrations when they might instead be better off listening to their hearts. I know it sounds crazy but I wish I could help them. I can't bear the thought of the kids who are suffering in homes or schools that aren't safe or kind for them, I know every case is different but I think in all cases there are different paths to follow, some better than others.

I mainly speak as a mum here, as I've seen what a profound effect the environment I'm creating has on my son. He's also deeply emotionally affected by physical ailments, so I can see that's an influence too. If he were chronically sick, with his make-up, it could really shoot him off downhill.. anyway, speculate, speculate... GIVE ME MORE information, I'm so grateful for it!

Kiki1256
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08 Sep 2016, 6:45 pm

From my experience with autism, I've always had difficulty connecting to others, but when I do connect, I really connect. So I've always had trouble reading people, but when I can read people, I'm sensitive to their emotions.

That's just my experience--not sure if it's true for other people with autism.

rats_and_cats
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08 Sep 2016, 9:26 pm

I'm a borderline empath; I can't always tell what somebody is feeling but if they have strong emotions I can feel those, even if they are hidden. There are some people who are always angry that I instinctively stay away from. This also extends to animals, including insects. Emotions can overwhelm me, and when I'm overwhelmed I don't have the mental energy needed to know what to say or do, so I end up either saying something I think is funny to lighten the mood, or leaving the situation. This is often interpreted as being insensitive. I'm very good at putting myself in other people's shoes, I just don't know what to do once I'm there.

TimmyTurnerFan1
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09 Sep 2016, 12:43 am

I myself, having Asperger's, tend to have empathy toward objects, things that don't really need sympathy. For me some of it is railroad crossings, especially crossing gates. That's not all I've been sympathetic towards. I'm also very empathetic toward rabbits, or at least sympathetic and syntimental about them. You should see how I really am about them, it bothers me to no end when I see or hear of them getting attacked or killed, whether by other animals or even by humans and even for food, or worse for sport. Hurting a rabbit, something I hope I never have to do!

I haven't always been empathetic toward other people. Thankfully I am now.

Like one of your other repliers said, I too can be extra sensitive to sound, and sometimes light, especially when I'm physically or emotionally sick (I'm always mentally sick and not because I have autism). I too have trouble listening to other people moan and groan, whether because of sickness or pain, even when it comes from my mother, who's very sick and has lots of illnesses. I also sometimes have trouble hearing or listening to babies cry, including on-TV babies, Rugrats being one of them. And it's very difficult when I'm riding on a bus or sitting in a waiting room whether of a doctor's office, hospital, E.R., Welfare Office, etc. As irritating as I think it is though, I have to remind myself "You were a baby once." And man was I a crier, I even remember it and this was when I was 2 years old, I was very hard to make stop crying and you won't believe how many baby-sitters I've been through! You wouldn't have wanted to be around me as a baby! Those poor babysitters I had! I know I was a baby and I know I cannot change the past but I still feel bad for what I put those people through though I don't remember them all.

I regret I didn't always have empathy for others and I wish I could remember when exactly I started feeling that way.

Sometimes I cry over dreams I have but that's for another post.

One more thing to admit, I once got upset about my sister kicking one of my train cars and breaking it. She got hurt but I cared more about my toy than about her and she was so upset with me she said I was terrible. I thought she was insulting me but I really was terrible, caring about a silly little freight car more than my sister. I mean my sister and I were so not friends but that's still no reason not to care about her or to put her above my freight car, which I was later able to repair. Thank goodness I didn't throw it away. Still I should have cared more for my sister than the toy train car.

I could go on but I'm gonna stop now.

AJisHere
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09 Sep 2016, 1:02 am

In my personal experience my empathy is about average, but since I don't understand emotions well it's not expressed clearly and doesn't go off at the times when it "normally" would. It's different in kind from that of a normal person but not in degree. If that makes any sense.

Also, particularly set off by animals. Seeing a suffering animal hits me hard. The myriad (and often incomprehensible) rules of human society don't apply there. It's raw, and I get it.

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dcj123
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09 Sep 2016, 1:25 am

I believe autistic people have more empathy but they don't know how to show it. Its definitely there on all ends of the spectrum.

Also sympathy =! empathy

katy_rome
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10 Sep 2016, 3:21 pm

rats_and_cats wrote:

I'm very good at putting myself in other people's shoes, I just don't know what to do once I'm there.

Brilliantly put, I love it.

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