For those that believe ASD is Only hard wired/genetic

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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 3:00 pm

leahbear wrote:
Now that I've learned about AS I can see it up and down 4 generations of both sides of my family so I think there is a very strong genetic component in my case. My severity has fluctuated massively throughout my life. Hormones have a huge impact on my desire and ability to socialize. Stress is another huge factor for me. After my burnout from my last job I couldn't handle people at all for about 8 months. If I felt any amount of pressure I would be hiding in the bathtub under a blanket. I stopped acknowledging my boyfriend and even though we were still living together it was like we were living separately. I am so thankful he was patient and didn't leave me through all of that horribleness before I learned about autism. Chronic health issue flare-ups also greatly impact my energy and when I have no energy I can't handle people either and can't process anything. I just went through healing my gut issues ( SIBO/IBS-C ) and hadn't realized just how sick it made me until my health started returning. Now I'm trying to learn how to calm myself and be more authentic so I can use my energy for things that I want to do instead of trying to be NT. I don't think it ever worked very well but I was completely oblivious. That's just my story. I'm not diagnosed either so you might not think I count. :shrug:


I, too, see it in 4 generations. I believe it's in part genetic, but also inherited gut flora as they're passed from mother to child.

Hormones DO play a critical factor and the endocrine system is in play here. I KNOW this is true because of what I learned at the end of last Summer from a fellow beacher - that Vitamin D (a hormone) can only be utilized by the body in conjunction with exposure to UV light. So, over the Winter I dosed myself with Vitamin D & UV, and maintained a far better balance of brain functions than the extremely low light Winter before where I slipped a lot more over the Winter despite my diet/probiotics. Vitamin D is a hormone that acts as an "assist," to dozens of brain/body functions and should not be underestimated in how much if affects ASD symptoms.

Stress - yes - this affects health. But since my overall health is better, my ability to cope with stress is so much better, too.

There ya go. Humans, in general, are just on the cusp of learning just how critical gut health is to overall health and well being and just how much it influences various diagnoses. That's why it's an emerging area of medicine & is being explored by many different research teams right now. It's some pretty exciting stuff!

Self diagnosis via reading, learning, and knowing is just as valid as someone else observing you & telling you what you already know. Those who doubt self diagnosis may as well doubt self diagnosis of everything. Somehow I doubt they would tell someone who's face is on fire that they're not a burn victim until someone with a couple letters after their name tells them so.


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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 3:02 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
No matter how 'balanced' I'm, no matter how fulfilled or capable I've become as a human -- I'm still autistic. What changed; is how my mind and body took the input it as, how much I know myself, and what I've done and where I'm now.


But sure. I have my own explainations why I had fluctuating symptoms -- and it's almost no different from any human states of ups and downs, just different on the whys, whats, and it's scale compare to NTs.
I had it both worlds -- getting worse and getting better, also both or either in short terms and long terms within time spans too. Thus functioning level 'varies' across time. Same true for everyone -- the difference is the variations. Mine isn't exactly constant either.

In my opinion, it's about timing too. Not just simply something to be done.
In longterms; Age 5-10 were the best times for me to sought socialization and had succeeded. Ages 12-15 are not -- seeking it nearly broke me. Ages 19 and later, maybe I'll try again. I may stop again or tune it down at age 25 or so. Then try again later or take more, then stop afterwards. And so forth.



I, for one, don't have their lives, their circumstances and their desires, nor others have mine. And not every one had ever had a 'time' to learn what timings are, nor a choice or an option to 'stop' and take a break or even go on. And not everyone would've chosen it either.
All I know is that people do change regardless.


I'm still Autistic, too. Never claimed to be otherwise. It's simply that the magnitude of my symptoms has become a very shallow sin wave hovering close to balanced & neutral vs. wildly spiking highs and lows. This is due to balancing gut flora the way that I do.


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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 3:09 pm

leahbear wrote:
B19 wrote:
You count. Self discovery is an important life process.


Thanks. I have a really hard time when people are mean. It makes me very worked up even if I'm not involved. I'm always the person at work telling the boss off for being unfair to my coworkers. And I can understand where goldfish is coming from. I recently healed my gut for the first time in my life (had constipation issues on and of since I was little) and it's improved my life enormously. I thought it was my endometriosis causing me my daily, chronic pain but it was my gut. I want to tell all the women everywhere with endometriosis and gut issues that healing their gut could make their pain go away. I've tried a bit but I don't think anyone cares or can understand. Healing my gut also decreased my anxiety, improved my mood, my cognitive functioning, my sensory processing and proprioception. I don't dare try to spread the word around here though because of how people respond to goldfish. I will say that times in my life when I've struggled the most are times when my gut has been the worst. Stress makes my gut misbehave and a dysfunctional gut makes me less functional.


This entire post is important. Very important. Thank you for sharing your experience despite what others here have to say about this area of medicine, your contribution with this post is very valuable. Not only are you another person who has independently healed yourself via treating/healing your gut issues & experienced dramatically positive results that you want to share with the world, but you've made a very very valuable point for these forums and the communication that goes on here with the bit that I bolded. Others' disbelief and general negativity towards me is very toxic to others like yourself who may be reading and want to contribute, share their story, ask questions, discuss, debate etc but they don't feel comfortable doing so when they read all of the unfounded hate spewed by people who opt not to believe I've been telling them the truth here for the last 5+ years. This may be the single most valuable post in this thread and I hope that the regulars, and even lurkers, read it over & over.

Before anyone asks, assumes, or suggests: leahbear is not my account. leahbear is some other completely different person who's had a similar experience to myself & equally wants to share it with those it could help most, because it is valuable & important. Feel free to confirm with the mods/admins with an IP trace or w/e means you like.


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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 3:12 pm

League_Girl wrote:
It seems common whenever people make changes to themselves, they expect others to do the same and when they don't, they get frustrated and then get critical of other people who don't do it. I used to be the same way.


I don't expect everyone to do the same. But it is VERY strange to me that there are tons of people here complaining about the same symptoms ruining their lives & they're unwilling to try things to improve themselves that have worked for others like them. I accept that I cannot make anyone want to improve themselves, they have to do that on their own, but it's still downright bizarre that so very few have been open to learning anything about this vs. carrying on with the same complaints they claim to be "unbearable," but w/e not my life. All in due time, I suppose. More people will come around to this area of medicine and treatment in time, and more will benefit from it when they're ready and want to. I just can't imagine not wanting to, is all, as there is No Way I would go back to the way I was 6 years ago ever, Ever, EVER, since I know I have a choice.


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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 3:15 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The way I see it is that the skills are a bi-product of genetics and environment. Its true for any skill NT would have, so I don't see why it wouldn't be true for autistic as well.

I guess it might not be "politically correct" to say this because, in the past, there were theories that autism is caused by "refrigirator mothers" so any kind of hint that anything other than biology/genetics can contribute is automatically put into that "nonesense" category. But, just because somehting reminds you of something else thats stupid, doesn't mean that its stupid.

Like I said, if the outcome of an NT child can be influenced by their upbringing, I don't see why that can't be the case for an autistic. That doesn't change the fact that biology plays a role: if an autistic and NT are raised in identical ways, autistic will end up looking more autistic. That doesn't negate the fact that if two identical autistics are raised differently they can have different outcomes. Both statements are true.


Upbringings affect children. Trauma causes PTSD etc. But I don't believe that parenting results in ASD symptoms. That's just me, though, as I'm a more firm believer in hard science cause & effect than "ASD is caused by parents not teaching their children how to behave socially," or anything like that. Social impairments are due to brains/bodies not functioning properly, not because they weren't taught things. IMO.


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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 3:17 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
f**k! déjà vu , I swear I've read that post before ^

Is déjà vu a sign of breakdown?


No. It is how you know you're in The Matrix, though. 8)


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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 4:04 pm

I've shared this link before, but watch this documentary episode of "The Nature of Things," called "The Autism Enigma," from 2016. I'm far from the only ASD person on the planet to experience relief of ASD symptoms via probiotics.

http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/episodes/autism-enigma


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SaveFerris
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06 May 2018, 4:15 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
f**k! déjà vu , I swear I've read that post before ^

Is déjà vu a sign of breakdown?


No. It is how you know you're in The Matrix, though. 8)


Well I hope Trinity wakes me up soon


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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 8:01 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
f**k! déjà vu , I swear I've read that post before ^

Is déjà vu a sign of breakdown?


No. It is how you know you're in The Matrix, though. 8)


Well I hope Trinity wakes me up soon


Pssst, Trinity is Billions of colony forming units worth of a blend of 3 different probiotic bacteria strains.*

*I actually use a blend of 8 strains, iirc.


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HistoryGal
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06 May 2018, 8:09 pm

Goldfish......I appreciate your informative posts. I get what you are saying. Keep on doing what is working.☺☺☺☺☺ glad to see you back around.



MalchikBrodyaga
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06 May 2018, 8:21 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The way I see it is that the skills are a bi-product of genetics and environment. Its true for any skill NT would have, so I don't see why it wouldn't be true for autistic as well.

I guess it might not be "politically correct" to say this because, in the past, there were theories that autism is caused by "refrigirator mothers" so any kind of hint that anything other than biology/genetics can contribute is automatically put into that "nonesense" category. But, just because somehting reminds you of something else thats stupid, doesn't mean that its stupid.

Like I said, if the outcome of an NT child can be influenced by their upbringing, I don't see why that can't be the case for an autistic. That doesn't change the fact that biology plays a role: if an autistic and NT are raised in identical ways, autistic will end up looking more autistic. That doesn't negate the fact that if two identical autistics are raised differently they can have different outcomes. Both statements are true.


Upbringings affect children. Trauma causes PTSD etc. But I don't believe that parenting results in ASD symptoms. That's just me, though, as I'm a more firm believer in hard science cause & effect than "ASD is caused by parents not teaching their children how to behave socially," or anything like that. Social impairments are due to brains/bodies not functioning properly, not because they weren't taught things. IMO.


Re-read what I wrote: I didn't say its "just" parenting. I said its an interplay of parenting and biology. In other words, a parenting can't turn an aspie into NT, but it can help an aspie have better social skills, as an aspie, or not. Same goes for helping NT have better social skills as NT, or not.



goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 10:20 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The way I see it is that the skills are a bi-product of genetics and environment. Its true for any skill NT would have, so I don't see why it wouldn't be true for autistic as well.

I guess it might not be "politically correct" to say this because, in the past, there were theories that autism is caused by "refrigirator mothers" so any kind of hint that anything other than biology/genetics can contribute is automatically put into that "nonesense" category. But, just because somehting reminds you of something else thats stupid, doesn't mean that its stupid.

Like I said, if the outcome of an NT child can be influenced by their upbringing, I don't see why that can't be the case for an autistic. That doesn't change the fact that biology plays a role: if an autistic and NT are raised in identical ways, autistic will end up looking more autistic. That doesn't negate the fact that if two identical autistics are raised differently they can have different outcomes. Both statements are true.


Upbringings affect children. Trauma causes PTSD etc. But I don't believe that parenting results in ASD symptoms. That's just me, though, as I'm a more firm believer in hard science cause & effect than "ASD is caused by parents not teaching their children how to behave socially," or anything like that. Social impairments are due to brains/bodies not functioning properly, not because they weren't taught things. IMO.


Re-read what I wrote: I didn't say its "just" parenting. I said its an interplay of parenting and biology. In other words, a parenting can't turn an aspie into NT, but it can help an aspie have better social skills, as an aspie, or not. Same goes for helping NT have better social skills as NT, or not.


Missed that. Read it as a nurture theory post when I was rapidly replying to post earlier in the day.


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goldfish21
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06 May 2018, 10:26 pm

HistoryGal wrote:
Goldfish......I appreciate your informative posts. I get what you are saying. Keep on doing what is working.☺☺☺☺☺ glad to see you back around.


Thank you for that. 8)


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07 May 2018, 12:48 am

goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the important thing to remember, is "YMMV."


:? I had to look that up.

Not sure if you mean that what works for one person might not work for another


That's it. Might not work or work differently or not as good or even work better on a case by case basis.

Sometimes the remedy for something can cause other problems. I had developed bad generalized anxiety.The stuff they put me on cured it, but eventually it started making me reckless and aggressive. But to me I felt great, on top of the world. They weaned me off it and I went back to normal.

I am moderate to severe autistic, so my parents have had a 101 autism fixes pitched to them throughout my lifetime. They are usually either some dietary/supplement routine or some form of occupational therapy someone invented. The umpteen inventors of umpteen autism fixes all give basically the same testimonial about their special formula as goldfish21 does about his.


And how many of these people who were selling these Autism fixes to your parents were on the spectrum, figured these things out on their own accord, treated themselves, and reported the results from their first hand experience? Any of them?


All of them.

goldfish21 wrote:
I'd like to also take a moment to point out preemptively that I've never attempted to sell anything at all. I've given this information away freely after learning & doing it for myself because it can help countless people. I've never once offered so much as a bottle of probiotic supplements for sale, only freely shared my grocery list and suggested people procure what they need from their local grocer/health food store & try things for themselves at the lowest possible monetary expense.

I'm AS. Figured out and did things on my own, not by someone else telling me to do these things, shared with the group here 100% for free vs. making a sales pitch to your parents asking for money. Big difference, EzraS.


That doesn't make you qualified in any way. The others whom you know nothing about have firmly established identities.They have websites and publications with all their info and testimonials from diagnosed autistics regarding how well their treatment methods work.

You are just an anonymous undiagnosed person on a relatively obscure discussion forum, who has a history of like a 95% negative feedback from numerous members.



goldfish21
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07 May 2018, 12:54 am

EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the important thing to remember, is "YMMV."


:? I had to look that up.

Not sure if you mean that what works for one person might not work for another


That's it. Might not work or work differently or not as good or even work better on a case by case basis.

Sometimes the remedy for something can cause other problems. I had developed bad generalized anxiety.The stuff they put me on cured it, but eventually it started making me reckless and aggressive. But to me I felt great, on top of the world. They weaned me off it and I went back to normal.

I am moderate to severe autistic, so my parents have had a 101 autism fixes pitched to them throughout my lifetime. They are usually either some dietary/supplement routine or some form of occupational therapy someone invented. The umpteen inventors of umpteen autism fixes all give basically the same testimonial about their special formula as goldfish21 does about his.


And how many of these people who were selling these Autism fixes to your parents were on the spectrum, figured these things out on their own accord, treated themselves, and reported the results from their first hand experience? Any of them?


All of them.

goldfish21 wrote:
I'd like to also take a moment to point out preemptively that I've never attempted to sell anything at all. I've given this information away freely after learning & doing it for myself because it can help countless people. I've never once offered so much as a bottle of probiotic supplements for sale, only freely shared my grocery list and suggested people procure what they need from their local grocer/health food store & try things for themselves at the lowest possible monetary expense.

I'm AS. Figured out and did things on my own, not by someone else telling me to do these things, shared with the group here 100% for free vs. making a sales pitch to your parents asking for money. Big difference, EzraS.


That doesn't make you qualified in any way. The others whom you know nothing about have firmly established identities.They have websites and publications with all their info and testimonials from diagnosed autistics regarding how well their treatment methods work.

You are just an anonymous undiagnosed person on a relatively obscure discussion forum, who has a history of like a 95% negative feedback from numerous members.


I learn and do this and share it freely and you call me a snake oil salesman despite the fact that I’ve never offered anything for sale. Now you try to discredit the truth that I share because I didn’t create a website and write a book and try to monetize it. Lol ridiculous.


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EzraS
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07 May 2018, 1:17 am

goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the important thing to remember, is "YMMV."


:? I had to look that up.

Not sure if you mean that what works for one person might not work for another


That's it. Might not work or work differently or not as good or even work better on a case by case basis.

Sometimes the remedy for something can cause other problems. I had developed bad generalized anxiety.The stuff they put me on cured it, but eventually it started making me reckless and aggressive. But to me I felt great, on top of the world. They weaned me off it and I went back to normal.

I am moderate to severe autistic, so my parents have had a 101 autism fixes pitched to them throughout my lifetime. They are usually either some dietary/supplement routine or some form of occupational therapy someone invented. The umpteen inventors of umpteen autism fixes all give basically the same testimonial about their special formula as goldfish21 does about his.


And how many of these people who were selling these Autism fixes to your parents were on the spectrum, figured these things out on their own accord, treated themselves, and reported the results from their first hand experience? Any of them?


All of them.

goldfish21 wrote:
I'd like to also take a moment to point out preemptively that I've never attempted to sell anything at all. I've given this information away freely after learning & doing it for myself because it can help countless people. I've never once offered so much as a bottle of probiotic supplements for sale, only freely shared my grocery list and suggested people procure what they need from their local grocer/health food store & try things for themselves at the lowest possible monetary expense.

I'm AS. Figured out and did things on my own, not by someone else telling me to do these things, shared with the group here 100% for free vs. making a sales pitch to your parents asking for money. Big difference, EzraS.


That doesn't make you qualified in any way. The others whom you know nothing about have firmly established identities.They have websites and publications with all their info and testimonials from diagnosed autistics regarding how well their treatment methods work.

You are just an anonymous undiagnosed person on a relatively obscure discussion forum, who has a history of like a 95% negative feedback from numerous members.


I learn and do this and share it freely and you call me a snake oil salesman despite the fact that I’ve never offered anything for sale. Now you try to discredit the truth that I share because I didn’t create a website and write a book and try to monetize it. Lol ridiculous.


I never called you a snake oil salesman. You're the one who constantly uses that term regarding yourself. What I call you, based on my fairly extensive knowledge of autism treatments, is someone who is rather under-qualified in my learned opinion.

You ramble on and on for years saying the same thing the same way hoping for different results than what appears to be a 95% rejection history here. In 5 years you haven't gotten a single person to try your probiotics up the rectum treatments. The fact that you can't even give it away for free, says a lot about it.

goldfish21 wrote:
I'm not manic.


Makes 20 posts in a row to the same thread.