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08 Jun 2010, 6:26 am

Gerhardt wrote:
This is a question for NT's, generally young women NT's but anyone can answer:

What would the best way for an Aspie to tell you that he has Aspergers? A lot of times I meet NT women that are nice and all but they misinterpret my cold gaze and lack of social congruency as stand offish and insecure, and thus refuse to date me. I feel if they know I have aspergers they'll be more prone to understanding how I work and seeing my true colors. I've told some women that I have Aspergers directly but it ends up making things even more awkward.



At the point where it seems you may have been misinterpreted, disclosure would be good.

You could try something to the effect of: “I get the feeling (maybe you might want to word this differently?) that my cold gaze and lack of social skills somewhat seem unusual to you. This is because I have Aspergers syndrome.”

You could add a line about how your AS relates to the gaze and lack of social skills. If they ask followup questions- great, elaborate. If not, you could change the subject and speak about something less weighty like a common interest.


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08 Jun 2010, 8:43 am

ronanconway wrote:
DandelionFireworks wrote:
I'm in school. There are some kids that I've secretly nicknamed the Orgy Group, and they mostly hang out in a certain room during lunch, or go get something to eat at a nearby restaurant (why would you do that? I always wait until after class), talk about stupid stuff, talk about their drug use, etc. I have a few questions about these people.

First of all, I go and in the corner by the door sometimes and watch them, and occasionally ask "really?" when they say something that might be sarcastic. (They got their nickname because I entered and asked "what do you guys do down here?" They told me they were just about to have an orgy. I left and came back one minute later (literally; I checked the clock) and then asked them about the orgy, because they were all sitting in the same spots with nothing out of place. I suspected they hadn't had an orgy and had never intended to. One guy said "yeah, that was a good orgy" and, addressing another guy, "arch your back a little more next time." So I said they must not have great stamina, in one of my few attempts at wit.) I don't understand what they're talking about and don't contribute to the discussion. How do I become a part of the group?

And how likely is it that the teachers know they're on drugs? I know they found one guy smoking tobacco, and I know that at least one other student knows they're on drugs, but do the teachers? How would I go about ascertaining that without "snitching" in case they really don't?
?


I find it a little bit offensive that you generalize so negatively about those who use drugs, ...

There is absolutely no reason to 'snitch' on these students, if they're hurting you none. The US drug laws are extremely unfair and biased, and serve to do more harm to the people than the drugs themselves.....


While I agree that it probably isn't worth her time to snitch on these kids, I disagree strongly that they "aren't hurting you none" with illegal drug use. That kind of activity has a lot of negative impact on society and every person in it. Stimulants are appropriate when prescribed and monitored medically and so are other drugs. That can be very helpful and is not the same as illegal drug use. Aside from the negative effects on the drug user themselves, illegal drug use leads to a vast array of criminal behavior. We all pay higher prices in stores because of the need to cover the operating costs which are increased due to theft. Not all theft is due to illegal drug use but a significant amount of it is. Illegal drug use leads to more violent crime as well.

When people make the choice to use drugs illegally they do hurt other people to varying degrees. Not every drug user becomes directly involved with other crimes but they are supporting an industry that is. Not every drug makes the user as prone to criminal activity, but they support a sub culture that makes it easier.

Don't delude yourself into thinking you're only hurting yourself if you choose to involve yourself in illegal drug use. There is no justification of it.



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08 Jun 2010, 3:03 pm

So, a question for the NTs...

What's this I keep hearing about reading eyes?


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08 Jun 2010, 3:12 pm

Reading eyes? I'm told I show every thought in my head through my eyes. Some people are more reserved and show less. I look at people's eyes to see their mood and what they are thinking. I can't read their minds, but I get more than mood. I get skeptisism, impressed, angry. laughing....Eyes show a lot. I do it so readily that I'm not aware of what I'm doing and I'd have to think really hard about what the different clues are. Little wrinkles around the corners for smiling, and that kind of thing.....



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08 Jun 2010, 4:22 pm

But what do you see when you read someone's eyes? Is it just a poetic way of saying you look at the facial expression, or do you see something in the eyes themselves?


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08 Jun 2010, 4:39 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:
But what do you see when you read someone's eyes? Is it just a poetic way of saying you look at the facial expression, or do you see something in the eyes themselves?


Oh, wow, this is hard to put into words. It's more what I feel than what I see. I can feel what they are feeling. If I look into my middle son's eyes and see concern I realize that he is responding to me being upset about something and that he knows how I feel and is sharing in it with me. At that moment he and I are emotionally connected. He's an Aspie and I'm told he doesn't really make eye contact much with other people, but with me he does and he and I can read each other perfectly. It's been that way since the day he was born.

We can have whole unspoken conversations, like this one (no actual words are spoken but we both totally know).

"They are at it again"

"I wish they'd knock it off"

"Why can't they be quiet like us"

"Yeah, we're cool, they're obnoxious"

"Yep"

At this point we are usually smirking because we both know what we're both thinking and it's us against them. Shame on us, bad mommy....


I'd never say those things outloud, not with him since we're communicating about his brothers and all and that would be totally not PC, but you can't lie with your eyes...I can't anyway.



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08 Jun 2010, 5:46 pm

His eyes said that?

Wow. Is it just me, or is trying to talk to NTs without eye contact like trying to speak Chinese in a monotone? :(

Can you elaborate on how it feels?

Also, how much does it matter to you? Like, does it make talking on the phone hard?


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08 Jun 2010, 5:50 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:
His eyes said that?

Wow. Is it just me, or is trying to talk to NTs without eye contact like trying to speak Chinese in a monotone? :(

Can you elaborate on how it feels?

Also, how much does it matter to you? Like, does it make talking on the phone hard?


That eye communication thing (having a conversation without words in the space of a few seconds) I can do with my younger brother, that's all.



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08 Jun 2010, 6:36 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:
His eyes said that?

Wow. Is it just me, or is trying to talk to NTs without eye contact like trying to speak Chinese in a monotone? :(

Can you elaborate on how it feels?

Also, how much does it matter to you? Like, does it make talking on the phone hard?


Yes, but he and I are particularly good at it. We just get each other, and our eyes are nearly identical except that he has really dark thick lashes and I barely have lashes at all.

Yes, it is a lot like trying to speak a tonal language without tone, but remember when you sing a tonal language you can't use tone for meaning and it's very beautiful....just needs subtitles to be clearly understood.

I hate talking on the phone, but I don't think that's why. I just don't like phones, never have. I don't have a hard time talking without eye contact, I just notice different things for that information. I've lived in various parts of Asia where eye contact rules were very different and it works just fine.

I'll automatically seek eye contact, because that's what I'm used to. A day or two off the play where that's not the norm and I'm not looking for it. If I notice someone has a hard time making eye contact I'll gladly switch modes.

In our multicultural world I think lots of people are used to that kind of thing.



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08 Jun 2010, 8:17 pm

Thanks! :D



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08 Jun 2010, 8:22 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:
His eyes said that?

Wow. Is it just me, or is trying to talk to NTs without eye contact like trying to speak Chinese in a monotone? :(

Can you elaborate on how it feels?

Also, how much does it matter to you? Like, does it make talking on the phone hard?


I don't know, but I love the comparison.


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10 Jun 2010, 10:36 am

DandelionFireworks wrote:
But what do you see when you read someone's eyes? Is it just a poetic way of saying you look at the facial expression, or do you see something in the eyes themselves?


It is an intuitive process, which means we see actual physical cues but do it with such facility we don't know we are doing it, like some people are with maths etc. Intuition isn't the lack of a logical process but the lack of awareness of the logical process.

So, yes it's a poetic way of saying we see physical things, but there's more going on neurologically than that.

If I look at someone who is very angry, I may notice they are a bit redder in the face, but I don't spend time adding up the furrowed brow, red face, pulsing vein...by that time they could have decked me. I look and go straight to "UH OH, anger, run! (or whatever)."

Some of the clues are so subtle I couldn't point them out given time, but some are easier to see. I think many Aspies can learn to read some of those things, it may not ever be a quick intuitive process but the might at least learn to see when it's time to get out of Dodge with enough accuracy to avoid a punch in the nose, sometimes. My son has made some progress with it. I'm not an advocate of trying to make Aspies act NT, but if learning to spot a pulsing vein can help you avoid a punch in the nose, I think it's a skill worth considering cultivating.



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10 Jun 2010, 12:26 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:
But what do you see when you read someone's eyes? Is it just a poetic way of saying you look at the facial expression, or do you see something in the eyes themselves?


I'm hardly an expert, but, I'm thinking it has to do, well, not the eyeballs, but the skin etc. right around the eyes, that's where the expressiveness of the eyes is. Although, like, a wide-eyed expression, we see more of the eyeball because of what that stuff around the eyeball is doing. Make sense?


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11 Jun 2010, 1:30 am

Thanks! I've learned as much in a couple of weeks on WP as I normally would in a year. You guys rock.


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11 Jun 2010, 10:29 am

DandelionFireworks wrote:
Thanks! I've learned as much in a couple of weeks on WP as I normally would in a year. You guys rock.


Oh, maybe we do, but so do you! You've taught me so much. I think you're the coolest, he he he. (I do, but I'm laughing at what a geeky old lady I am to say it that way)



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12 Jun 2010, 2:58 am

Aww, Kiley, you flatter me! :D


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