Understanding the model NTs operate on
More I listen to you guys talk about Learning Styles. More I wonder if your lack of understanding, is off the charts.
Not everyone uses the same learning style. Memory recall, "peace" "Image, 2 white doves”, “sound of the word”. “The shape of the word.” “The video of 2 leaders shaking hands at the end of a war agreeing to peace.” I attached these keys to the memory location, its how I pull data out on peace.
Lack of understanding, is due to the framework structure of the person your talking to. When you use religious words to talk to someone who has no interest with religion. Or when you talk to someone using scientific words, while the other person has no interest of science.
It all depends on the framework a person is working off. You need to process the information. Re-structure your framework, if needs be. Some people have too much data to crunch & need to enter rem sleep.
If your talking to someone, using words or “idioms” the person is not interested in or heard before. Like most people even if they not really listening. Just nod & say yes, yep. But if you ask them to repeat what you said back. Ye they really processed the data, rather than guessing. Specially when you inserted "meow" into what you were saying lol.
Of course people who are more like each other, are going to not see this happening as much. Because your brain is pulling long term memory into short or working memory what ever you want to call it. I would also assume maybe the brain would pre-catch data, that it thinks might need next. Or it will crunch it in long term memory & when ready it will be pulled out.
Edit:- If I point to a sheep in a field & no one has ever seen a sheep or a cow before & I told them a sheep was a cow. Then they talk to someone who knows what a cow is, they will think you have a screw loose.
Edit2:- I will also like to add they is a difference between ( spacing out, empty & meditation, that increases thinking).
Edit3:- & when someone wants to protect they framework, they will reject the information. Don't want to think about it.
Edit:4:- I just read this page from beginning again. I am totally lost about what you people mean by NT now. Sounds like your talking about extroverts.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RXfj1Cd3uo&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
_________________
INTJ, Type5 Observer, Ecologists,
?When you make a mistake, don't look back at it long. Take the reason of the thing into your mind and then look forward. Mistakes are lessons of wisdom. The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power.?
Not everyone uses the same learning style. Memory recall, "peace" "Image, 2 white doves”, “sound of the word”. “The shape of the word.” “The video of 2 leaders shaking hands at the end of a war agreeing to peace.” I attached these keys to the memory location, its how I pull data out on peace.
Lack of understanding, is due to the framework structure of the person your talking to. When you use religious words to talk to someone who has no interest with religion. Or when you talk to someone using scientific words, while the other person has no interest of science.
It all depends on the framework a person is working off. You need to process the information. Re-structure your framework, if needs be. Some people have too much data to crunch & need to enter rem sleep.
If your talking to someone, using words or “idioms” the person is not interested in or heard before. Like most people even if they not really listening. Just nod & say yes, yep. But if you ask them to repeat what you said back. Ye they really processed the data, rather than guessing. Specially when you inserted "meow" into what you were saying lol.
Of course people who are more like each other, are going to not see this happening as much. Because your brain is pulling long term memory into short or working memory what ever you want to call it. I would also assume maybe the brain would pre-catch data, that it thinks might need next. Or it will crunch it in long term memory & when ready it will be pulled out.
Edit:- If I point to a sheep in a field & no one has ever seen a sheep or a cow before & I told them a sheep was a cow. Then they talk to someone who knows what a cow is, they will think you have a screw loose.
Edit2:- I will also like to add they is a difference between ( spacing out, empty & meditation, that increases thinking).
Edit3:- & when someone wants to protect they framework, they will reject the information. Don't want to think about it.
Edit:4:- I just read this page from beginning again. I am totally lost about what you people mean by NT now. Sounds like your talking about extroverts.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RXfj1Cd3uo&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
"More I listen to you guys talk about Learning Styles. More I wonder if your lack of understanding, is off the charts. More I wonder if your lack of understanding, is off the charts." Your post is hard to understand, not least because you don't even adhere to the basic rules of grammar. That's a very NT thing btw.
So while you might be trying to patronise us all with your 'superior' understanding of models of communication etc, it's wasted effort if we can't understand what the hell you're going on about!
"when someone wants to protect they framework, they will reject the information. Don't want to think about it."
'they framework'?? Don't you mean 'their'?
We already convered this point ages ago btw
Why is it that the amount of useful information in a post is in inverse proportion to the size of the speaker's ego? ie people who think they know it all invariably don't and they inform us of this fact in barely legible language. I'd laugh if it weren't so depressingly common!
Do you think that perhaps we lack understanding because er we are on the autistic spectrum and hence the question needed to be asked! I'd say 'Duh!' but you might not get it!
Again, yet another "OMG you're blind and you can't see what's in front of you?! What kind of an idiot are you??"-type post
Where do people get off in stating the bleeding obvious as if it was insight of genius proportions?
FFS!
Is this model correct:
Communication is made up of verbal, non-verbal and para verbal (tone of voice etc). Most NTs will automatically use all three sources of information. (Using NT as a very broad generalisation of average non-autistic people).
When there is a difference between what person 1 says and the observed non-verbal/para-verbal information from person 1, person 2 is likely to assume that what is shown, not said, contains the real message. Because NTs try to frame unpleasant things in a more socially acceptable way, they are not likely to be direct in their verbal communication, making it necessary to pick up on the non/para verbal communication to get the full message and intention of the person.
Is this correct, what am I missing? What would communicate to someone who doesn’t know about AS that what you say is more accurate than what you show?
_________________
No one will tell me who and what I am and can be.
Communication is made up of verbal, non-verbal and para verbal (tone of voice etc). Most NTs will automatically use all three sources of information. (Using NT as a very broad generalisation of average non-autistic people).
When there is a difference between what person 1 says and the observed non-verbal/para-verbal information from person 1, person 2 is likely to assume that what is shown, not said, contains the real message. Because NTs try to frame unpleasant things in a more socially acceptable way, they are not likely to be direct in their verbal communication, making it necessary to pick up on the non/para verbal communication to get the full message and intention of the person.
Is this correct, what am I missing? What would communicate to someone who doesn’t know about AS that what you say is more accurate than what you show?
Actually, I think making sure what you say is accurate as opposed to depending on non-verbal and para-verbal forms of communication says it pretty well. I think you've expressed it pretty well.
Communication is made up of verbal, non-verbal and para verbal (tone of voice etc). Most NTs will automatically use all three sources of information. (Using NT as a very broad generalisation of average non-autistic people).
When there is a difference between what person 1 says and the observed non-verbal/para-verbal information from person 1, person 2 is likely to assume that what is shown, not said, contains the real message. Because NTs try to frame unpleasant things in a more socially acceptable way, they are not likely to be direct in their verbal communication, making it necessary to pick up on the non/para verbal communication to get the full message and intention of the person.
Is this correct, what am I missing? What would communicate to someone who doesn’t know about AS that what you say is more accurate than what you show?
Actually, I think making sure what you say is accurate as opposed to depending on non-verbal and para-verbal forms of communication says it pretty well. I think you've expressed it pretty well.
However, whether or not what I say is accurate is irrelevent if my body language is interpreted to mean something else. I find people assume my body langauge is more accurate than what I say, and what I say may be disputed, ignored or people will read into it odd conclusions that I realise may come from my body language.
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No one will tell me who and what I am and can be.
Essentially I want to understand the difference between myself and NTs, what NTs want, how they perceive things etc.
A key focus for me is communication. I want to understand NTs communication models - how and why they communicate, what methods they use, how they achieve disired aims, why they use non-literal communication etc. Essentially anything along these lines that will help me understand NTs different perspective better. I am already looking though past WP threads, so am particularly interested in things from outside of WP. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!
Sorry if it's already been said, but "Social Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman (also wrote Emotional Intelligence) is great in that way.
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"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.
Essentially I want to understand the difference between myself and NTs, what NTs want, how they perceive things etc.
A key focus for me is communication. I want to understand NTs communication models - how and why they communicate, what methods they use, how they achieve disired aims, why they use non-literal communication etc. Essentially anything along these lines that will help me understand NTs different perspective better. I am already looking though past WP threads, so am particularly interested in things from outside of WP. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!
Sorry if it's already been said, but "Social Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman (also wrote Emotional Intelligence) is great in that way.
_________________
"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.
mythical bell curve
Who collated it, when and how?
It's the usual hypothetical crap
You think that 99% of those you meet are thick because you're pretty stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem
Please don't use this thread for debates about intelligence, bell curves, grammar etc... I appologise if anyone is agrivated by my use of "NT", however I need some way to diffrentiate non-autistic from autistic. These debates really are not relevent to the thread.
Thanks for the responses to my questions, I appreciate the input so far and any further input.
_________________
No one will tell me who and what I am and can be.
mythical bell curve
Who collated it, when and how?
It's the usual hypothetical crap
You think that 99% of those you meet are thick because you're pretty stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem
I see from reading through some of your previous posts that you are the resident obnoxious NT here - can't get away from them even on an Autism discussion board!
Perhaps you'd like to explain in your own words exactly how the wikipadia article relates to you
thinking I'm 'pretty stupid' - it shouldn't be too much effort for one so self-assumedly erudite!
If I was stupid I'd fit in better with all the stupid people around me - that's the crux of the matter
It takes no brains at all to be a mindless herd follower - it's the fact I refuse to do this that is the reason I'm not relating
to people - I think too much, not in a stupid way
There's also the moral dimension that very few people even consider. You can relate to a person intellectually but they
can be morally weak - this is another way in which people can be lacking as well as intellectually
I think NTs turn their moral sensibility on and off like a tap as it suits them, that's if they even have one in the first place,
which makes a mockery of the whole concept
They invariably do what is socially as opposed to morally expedient to do. I can't relate to this at all.
Nah, I just don't sugarcoat what I think because I heard many people here don't like that sort of stuff

thinking I'm 'pretty stupid' - it shouldn't be too much effort for one so self-assumedly erudite!
You reject and attack something you don't even understand (normal probablity distribution, in this case). Only stupid people do that. No exceptions.
No, LOL. It doesn't work like that. And I'd guess many of them aren't stupid anyway

Nah, I just don't sugarcoat what I think because I heard many people here don't like that sort of stuff

thinking I'm 'pretty stupid' - it shouldn't be too much effort for one so self-assumedly erudite!
You reject and attack something you don't even understand (normal probablity distribution, in this case). Only stupid people do that. No exceptions.
No, LOL. It doesn't work like that. And I'd guess many of them aren't stupid anyway

You're a standard-issue unpleasant NT, ten a penny
Observe how this person is Cogs - and you want to learn how to communicate better with these people??
Save yourself the trouble and avoid is my solution - seek out the people who accept you as you are then you won't
be having to jump through all the pathetic NT hoops for very little return and believe me it is very little return - they
aren't worth the effort.
No jumped-up bully gets to have their say on how I should communicate - I'm fine as I am
And btw I knew you wouldn't be able to explain that wikipedia article - NTs love to throw statistics at you but are invariably
far less keen to explain them - which indicates to me that hmmm you don't understand them!
You quoted it - you explain it mate!
As a concept?
With respect to something said on this thread?
Yes we're all mind readers here so don't feel the need to actually explain yourself
People with Aspergers are expert at reading between the lines - it's in all the textbooks
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