It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?

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That's why I am collecting written statements from my immediate family and two of my ex's. That way, what I say can be backed up with facts. You're right. I am not going to mention specific names, but if I find my therapist going down the wrong path, I may just find a new one. I am afraid she doesn't believe in personality disorders for people on the "spectrum." That's why the first thing I may need to do to get appropriate help is to "get off" the spectrum or at least find someone who believes in co-morbid Cluster B personality disorders.

The reason some therapists don't want to work with BPD is not that there is a stigma but that it is generally a waste of time for both parties in that the BPD client manipulates the therapist-client relationship in all kinds of ways because it is not his actual agenda to work on himself.

Secondly, BPD is probably very easy to diagnose, almost as easy as bi-polar as that pattern kind of stands out like a sore thumb.

To Tyrion, though if your therapist is doing it for the money, he may not care if he wastes an hour or not, and maybe he will learn something or other,, and if your insurance is paying for it then you may not care, but if a person is plunking down 135 to 150 an hour for a professional, he may leave the diagnosis and treatment procedure up to that person. Re what you said about documentation of this or that from two of your exes, I thought I just read that all of your relationships were only two months.

Then again, I think it is good that a client help chart the direction of his own therapy, but not by bringing in so called documentation from people who were naive enough or so mixed up themselves as to get mixed up with him or from a primary caretaker who is probably biased and perhaps in some way played into the formation of the disorder.


At the end of page six you wrote:

"Would it matter whether or not I had DID if the root cause was Narcissism?"

Self cherishing is the root cause of many disorders. Re DID, the whole point is for the person who has it NOT to know he has it, so in this sense it does not matter because that is a very clever double or triple bind that cannot be so easily undone, so you are right, but there are ways a skilled therapist might approach differently if he recognizes a person has that syndrome. The problem is he probably won't recognize it, and, if he does, will not be skilled enough to know how to work with it. The main thing is to build up trust. Then the therapist has to know what is behind the split and make sure NOT to tell the person, but rather to help build up the strength of the genuine self the protector is protecting. Then gradually an integrated self can begin to emerge. The key is action, so a behavioral approach. There are 'easy' remedies for narcissistic disorders. It does require work, but some of the remedies are kind of obvious, such as practice some of the opposite actions of self-cherishing. We can go into that later, This does not mean that a person should not accept and nurture himself, but there is a difference between taking care of oneself and being obsessively preoccupied with oneself.

To finish up with a point of view contrary to the perspective I have just given, in one sense it could matter for a person to know he has DID, as if he begins to recognize the protector this will weaken the protector's cunning hold by which is maintaining the split. Unless the trauma is directly faced there is no way to be free, which is why it is so sad. .

Well, I thought that really is the stigma, the assumption that the patient doesn't actually want help. It is kind of a hurtful assumption though if the person is bad enough to be at risk of suicide. I can see how it's a problem if it's seen as a last ditch effort to please a third party or save a failed relationship. I can see how that can turn into a game to be wary of. So I agree that for Tyrion bringing in documentation from ex girlfriends might not be the best idea.

I guess I think you'd be better off approaching it as looking for help on the things you need help with and not searching for a specific label, though I understand wanting to have something to pin down for self-explanatory purposes. I'm just not sure the label is really the most important thing. I really don't see the point in trying to get "un-diagnosed". That's just ridiculous IMO.

How can you be sure the narcissism & arrogance isn't AS related? As per the book we've both read, this can happen in some w/ AS who have an almost god-like complex expecting others to worship them for their self perceived greatness. Depression and social anxiety traits could explain feeling inferior despite the narcissism & obsessing about self improvement.

Just sayin'.. maybe.

I've found guided meditations great for this - especially since some of them I've listened to & followed are about exactly that, forgiveness, of yourself & others - of everything and everyone. Forgiveness is very powerful, indeed. A great starting point: http://www.freemeditation.com

Not gonna happen, sorry.

No, it's different. I don't have self-perceived greatness. It's more like I have low self-esteem which I cover up. There's some superiority complex in there, too, but I'm not totally sure how much is a reaction and how much is the core. I have too many core BPD/NPD traits (these disorders are so freakin' similar) for it to just be Asperger's at work. I know a lot of aspies IRL.

Everyone who knows me, even people who are used to working with people who have Asperger's, says I don't have it. One of my professors used to represent individuals with Asperger's all the time and says I don't have it also. One of my ex girlfriends, who has mild Asperger's, says I don't have it. I don't feel like I have it either. I have NLD, so that explains some of the traits like the dyspraxia and the voice.

It would be one thing if I were female. Then, yes, of course Asperger's can take an unusual form and be quite hidden. But I'm not.

It could be that having NPD cancels out Asperger's--or gives it an atypical presentation-- in the same way that being female may to an extent.

So how do either of these things even remotely fit with Asperger's?

The traits you describe could be AS related and just stronger in you than most others - or co-existing conditions, of course.

Every single person with AS has a different profile of traits & the magnitude of them. It can be very hidden or difficult to detect even if you're male, ie myself. When I read Tony Attwood's book it was as others described - this is it. However, when I mentioned this to my best friend since high school's mother on December 1st 2012, less than 2 months from when I figured it out & also when I was still much more-so AS than I am today for reasons we've discussed, she seemed shocked. This is relevant because her day job is working with high school students w/ behavioural problems and challenges including AS. She said I was far too social for it to be AS (based on her paradigm of working with less social lower functioning people) & considered me to be "still in the diagnosis phase.." as a polite way of telling me she thought I was wrong. So, I rattled off a short list of symptoms (including prosody & the walking gait - things she could see.) and pointed out that social interactions are intellectually processed, not intuitive, and are very draining/anxiety inducing etc. Even someone who's worked with many AS people didn't realize I fit the profile because it's much more hidden than in others.

As you've said before, you definitely had autistic behaviours as a kid. You can't just outgrow ASD. More severe lower functioning symptoms/traits, yes, as we've both read. It's very possible you're on the spectrum and simply very high functioning & difficult to detect. Also, your teacher would have formed some sort of opinion on what an AS person is like based on their interactions withA a couple AS students in the past and if you don't match them then they won't think you have it. That doesn't mean you don't. Could be the same with other mildly AS people if they're expecting you to have the same traits they do.

Another example: My nephew is extremely obviously ASD to anyone who's read Tony's book. Text book obvious. Meanwhile, his stepmother, who's biological son is diagnosed AS, says my nephew doesn't have it. BS he doesn't, he just doesn't have the same profile of traits as her son & has some polar opposite traits - he's different from her son's different, but he still has it. (This will eventually be diagnosed by professionals. In the meantime I've persuaded my brother to read Tony's book & gave him a copy.)

Soooo, just because one or two or a few others say you don't have it doesn't necessarily mean that you don't - just that you don't have the traits that they've come to expect as required criteria.

Creating a confident arrogant narcissistic persona to navigate through life while feeling socially anxious & inferior? This fits more if it's short lived and temporary as per a situation vs. consistent all the time.

Pretty well all of those BPD symptoms can occur in AS, too. The difference would be how prevalent they are. The list also overlaps with BP & other diagnoses, too.

I think he should try to change his behavior, as should many people including so called nt's and aspies.. If you're changing your behavior it doesn't really matter what you call yourself. The focus is on doing something differently.

I'm not sure what should change. What if having NPD is actually necessary and useful for overcoming autistic traits? What if I would be living in a group home instead of as a successful professional had NPD not forced me to make changes in my life as a teenager and young adult?

I think if I were just a better narcissist with more focus on self-improvement and surrounded by more people, I would be happy and content. My ideal life would be changing girlfriends every few weeks. It's just that my demeanor and social skills do not make that possible. It takes effort to get a girlfriend, but what if I got to the point where it was effortless?

If I do have NPD, I'm not sure whether to try to get rid of it or to try to embrace the positive, optimistic aspects of it more? When you're on the spectrum, all the usual rules go out the door. Sometimes, having a personality disorder, especially this one, may be beneficial. Having borderline would be beneficial because it would enhance the ability to read people and have cognitive empathy. So would NPD to an extent.

What causes me great distress is the mood swings. What if I found a way to get rid of the low points--maybe mega doses of serotonin?-- instead of trying to get rid of the whole package?

The source of my depression is not loneliness per se, but it goes along with that. Due to my voice and body language, I have a limited ability to control my environment. what if I just worked on these skills instead of the underlying motives?

You mentioned that as people get to know you they do not like you and also that in many ways your life seems to be falling apart. Well, for one thing it really is a happier and more fun feeling when people like you, and also you are only 26...as you go on in life and more trauma comes your way things may get worse and eventually someone who really does not like you and your behavior may try to harm you, and things can progress very downward from there. Hope this does not happen but it is probably a somewhat li8kely scenario.

Re changing girlfriends, or I mean sex partners, a lot of guys like to do this, but I question if it really makes them happy. .Men (women too, but especially men) thrive better and live longer in a really intimate relationship with one partner. Women, too, but they are more able to get warmth and intimacy from other angles.

You do realize that I am communicating with you not to try to fix you but because this is a potential learning tool for many who are participating, including me. This does not mean I do not have compassion for you and wish for you to be happy. It does sound to me that you are so cut off and lost in your script that you do not really know what you are doing.

it seems you are playing a yes-but game (see Games People Play by Eric Berne), BUT the reason I began to suspect DID is the way you are playing it. You seem to believe on one level that other people will not see through it, but you obviously are smart enough to know they will. That suggests to me a major split. Most people who do this yes-but game do not seem to be clued into what they are doing on what must be a conscious level.

You said you were sexually abused for several years by someone with DID, and that you were brought up in a (presumably ultra religious) family that had you (tried to have you:-) exorcised for a demon..This suggest a possibility of DID. As I said, it is possible to pick up a style, especially, but not only, if the person was a family member your were around a lot. I think there are two of you on here. The primary self is getting an vaguely intimate experience of socialization by participating here,and so associating communication and even ideas with potential being, which is what it craves, and the other 'self' will never let you, and by never I do mean never. And I hope the situation will not get worse, but consider the possibility that thinking it will not may be a pipe dream

IF it is even actually classic DID does not technically matter. We all have this splits or there would not be an unconscious. The aim (for me) is to be conscious and in conscious relationship with other people. That is the deepest gratification, better than anything, including sex (which I have had the beauty and joy of beyond description) worth living and dying for. Makes the whole thing worthwhile.

.

What if I really would be a severely impaired autistic person living in a group home without these tendencies?

The times I feel less like this are also times when I feel more autistic/NLD and have more impaired behaviors. People are confused by my mood swings and constant changes in values, outlook, and personality. What if I learned to just pick one of each and stay consistent even if I didn't feel like it? Anyway these things are consistent with a number of conditions, including Asperger's.

In what way would you differentiate DID from Asperger's/BPD/NPD? All these things involve personality changes and mood swings.

What if I really don't want intimate relations with people but just feel weak and like a creepy old man when I'm alone too much?

Anyway, I mentioned some of these things to my therapist (before I was aware of this much), and her attitude was more along the lines of learning to work with these tendencies, including the desire to change partners frequently, and the (possible) lack of desire for real relationships, and finding out what I really want, as opposed to trying to erase everything. She was working from the perspective of Asperger's though. I am meeting with her on Wednesday with more information to see if her perspective stays the same.

^^^
It is possible that a lot of your problems developed as a result of what you had to do to compensate for your AS symptoms. You won't end up living in a group home if you get rid of some of these maladaptive compensatory mechanisms. You can't lose the social skills and ability to read emotions that you have gained...that won't happen. If you really did develop narcissism as a way to deal with AS I really think you should be able to get rid of the narcissism, be more honest and still keep the social skills you've gained. You should also discuss this particular concern with your therapist. Also, however you've developed was probably influenced by the abuse you suffered in addition to the ASD. I hope your shrink acknowledges this.

It might be hard to get my shrink to acknowledge much. She has an AS daughter and is very sympathetic to the neurodiversity movement, so even getting her to accept certain things as "problems" might be difficult.

She's a fan of this book, so i may have to find someone new, which sucks because I'm only here for another month, so that would mean I might have to wait till June to get some answers. http://www.amazon.com/Far-From-Tree-Chi ... m+the+tree