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A deep question: why so many people here have cat avatars?

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whirlingmind
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21 Apr 2013, 7:27 am

Raziel wrote:
whirlingmind you seem to take this topic very seriously and no matter what my most favourite animal will ALWAYS be the cat. :cat:

Just because, just because I love them. :heart:


Not taking it seriously, just putting my views across. I don't expect anyone to change their mind, of course everyone can like what they wish to.

If I had to choose an animal that I like, not necessarily that I have an affinity with, just think is the most adorable creature to look at and cuddle, is the bunny rabbit:

Image


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Raziel
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21 Apr 2013, 7:43 am

whirlingmind wrote:
If I had to choose an animal that I like, not necessarily that I have an affinity with, just think is the most adorable creature to look at and cuddle, is the bunny rabbit:

Image


It's cute, but even if I wanted to I couldn't because I'm HIGHLY allergic to rabbits, the strongest on the scale that's even possible. 8O

I prefer to cuddle this one :D :

Image


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daydreamer84
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21 Apr 2013, 7:55 am

whirlingmind wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
Interesting how the OP started this thread saying he was asking a deep question sarcastically and it wasn't a very deep question, really but it has become a debate about a profound philosophical issue: Is there something fundamentally superior about humans in comparison to other animals.

I definitely think in the way that we measure and define intelligence currently that humans are WAY more intelligent than other animals. There is evidence, for example, that language (being able to acquire a "grammar" of a language) is uniquely human. Even the gorillas who have learned sign language haven't internalized a grammar enough so that they can create their own new sentences and change around words according to the grammar ect. Linguists classify this as communication but not language.

However ,the question remains: does this kind of intelligence equate with goodness or the ability to love and be altruistic and empathetic? Does it equate with what's valuable and sacred about human life or life in general? What about some people with severe or profound intellectual disabilities? Some are incapable of acquiring language the way non-human animals are, with a grasp of the grammar so they can construct and understand an infinite number of novel sentences.How much intelligence is required for goodness? Does this make them less valuable? If not , why not? Is it because they're human and human life is sacred?

I think part of it comes down to whether you believe in souls or spirits that other creatures don't have and whether you believe that humans have souls and this accounts for (at least some of) their potential for goodness. Of course some believe animals have souls too but then there are some tricky questions -do fish have souls? How about other living things? Do microbes?Do plants ect.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread further but I think the above argument is really about conflicting views about these kind of philosophical questions.


I don't think it's even about humans being superior, or more intelligent, and definitely not about souls, it's purely about the capabilities of the brain of an animal and it's inherent abilities to feel and display that level of emotions and the reasons for what humans may perceive as it being equivalent to the same human emotion.


How important are these capabilities of the brain? Do these higher capabilities (conscious thought ect.) which require parts of the neo-cortex equate with what makes life valuable? If so, what about people who don't have these capabilities because of brain damage -developmental or otherwise?

Edit: We don't have to talk about this anymore here. It doesn't really belong here. I've started a topic about it in the PPR sub-forum.



Last edited by daydreamer84 on 21 Apr 2013, 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

daydreamer84
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21 Apr 2013, 7:55 am

Raziel wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
If I had to choose an animal that I like, not necessarily that I have an affinity with, just think is the most adorable creature to look at and cuddle, is the bunny rabbit:

Image


It's cute, but even if I wanted to I couldn't because I'm HIGHLY allergic to rabbits, the strongest on the scale that's even possible. 8O

I prefer to cuddle this one :D :

Image


Yeah, I don't know what it is but the latter is much cuter to me.



Raziel
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21 Apr 2013, 9:06 am

This kitty is soooo cute :heart:

Image


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daydreamer84
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21 Apr 2013, 10:16 am

^^^
Yes! I love that picture.....I remember it. There is or was a member on WP with that as an avatar, she resized it.



loner1984
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21 Apr 2013, 12:45 pm

Dont think ive ever seen a person on here with a cat avatar. That is the picture thingy in their post right ?.

But its no wonder if so, because cats are awesome. Its a pet you can have, that can share the place where you live. I mean who doesnt like cats.

I like dogs as well, but it would be cruel to keep a dog in an apartment. They are so big compared to cats.

If we were allowed to have animals in any Apartments here i would definitely have a cat or 5.



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21 Apr 2013, 6:43 pm

My new avatar is of Rev. Abelard Arbogast from the Lackadaisy webcomic.



whirlingmind
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21 Apr 2013, 6:49 pm

A treat for all you cat lovers out there:

Image Image Image Image Image

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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WitchsCat
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21 Apr 2013, 6:53 pm

^^Those are so cute and funny :lol: The second one is like, "Get that camera out of my face!"


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Anomiel
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22 Apr 2013, 6:31 am

whirlingmind wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
Well the issue is if gaining something negates having emotions about it? Like your example with the cat who you say only wants warmth - wanting warmth doesn't disprove that the cat might still love his/her owner, or that the very obvious signs of affection are genuine and not in an effort to manipulate. And then we're back to the "does love or altruism exist or not"-threads that Qawer started to disprove that love (for humans) didn't exist because they gained something by it. As if that disproves love. There were some good arguments there, but not getting into that now.


I was thinking I only make physical contact with my mum for the pleasant sensation. I squeeze the fat on her stomach or poke it or I trace the lines of her feet. We don't really hug and kiss or anything.....we don't do much social touching. I do love my mum and wouldn't do it to anyone else. Maybe I also do it because of a need to be close to my mum but part of it is for the sensation, kind of like stimming.

Anyway , I agree that even though humans may not do things with PURELY altruistic intent because they might consider that doing X good deed would also make them feel good, there is still a selfless desire. It's mixed motivation. Humans are more complex than cats, of course but it's still quite possible that cats have mixed motivation too and part of their motivation for "cuddling" has to do with a desire to be close to a particular person that they care about. Certainly they're also seeking warmth from physical contact but there could be more to it.


Very much like cats kneading, you could call many things cats do stims :) I agree with everything you said there, it's very complex and there is no black or white.


...and bird preening therefore is a stim...horses snorting is a stim...dogs scratching is a stim...ad infinitum...


I knew that wouldn't be popular :P Anyway it raises another question - do we even know what the equivalent of stimming is for other animals? Maybe ours is something instinctive and primal like that as we all happen upon so similar stims by ourselves. Kneading is a bad example because it has a purpose originally, but tactile things like that could still be called stims. I have no idea why my body seems convinced I'm a bird (and it's not just about flapping)

Anyway I digress so go look at
http://icanhas.cheezburger.com/
and
http://cuteoverload.com/
not just cats, but here's a tiger cub :D

Image



whirlingmind
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22 Apr 2013, 6:54 am

I think there is probably a form of animal stim when an animal has suffered e.g. psychological damage. Where animals are caged, for example, tigers will pace up and down. So I guess they are doing it to relieve the stress of their environment. Aspies and auties stim for either that reason or that it feels pleasurable, depending on the situation. When they've done experiments with e.g. baby monkeys (this is so cruel) that they took them away from their mother and put a stuffed furry toy in the mother's place, the baby showed signs of distress because it was not getting any feedback from the mother, I would imagine it may have done some stims under those circumstances, like a self-soothing.


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Last edited by whirlingmind on 22 Apr 2013, 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anomiel
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22 Apr 2013, 7:07 am

whirlingmind wrote:
I think there is probably a form of animal stim when an animal has suffered e.g. psychological damage. Where animals are caged, for example, tigers will pace up and down. So I guess they are doing it to relieve the stress of their environment. Aspies and auties stim for either that reason or that it feels pleasurable, depending on the situation. When they've done experiments with e.g. baby monkeys (this is so cruel) that they took them away from their mother and put a stuffed furry toy in the mother's place, the baby showed signs of distress because it was not getting any feedback from the mother, I would imagine it may have done some stims under those ciurcumstances, like a self-soothing.


Appreciate the answer :)
I know what I get from it. I don't know why I do specific things to begin with, on a deeper level.
That is just the stress-relieving part of it. Maybe birds preen because it is stress-relieving and pleasurable for them too? We just don't call it a stim because it has a purpose, or we can see how they evolved to behave that way. I want to understand how we evolved to be this way as all the talking about psychological damage isn't really working. I mean, NTs stim (but not in all the ways autistics do) when they have suffered psychological damage sometimes, but that is only as a response not their regular behavior. Even the most undamaged (how that would happen in this world) autistic would probably stim. Anyway nevermind, I will google some information, about both human stims and animal behavior, it's just a bit depressing as all autism-related articles are so close-minded in seeing autism as some form of damage that they can't look at it objectively. And after that I will really need the cute-animals-links I posted. And now I'm just talking about humans so letting go of this topic now.



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22 Apr 2013, 10:44 am

whirlingmind wrote:
I think there is probably a form of animal stim when an animal has suffered e.g. psychological damage. Where animals are caged, for example, tigers will pace up and down. So I guess they are doing it to relieve the stress of their environment. Aspies and auties stim for either that reason or that it feels pleasurable, depending on the situation. When they've done experiments with e.g. baby monkeys (this is so cruel) that they took them away from their mother and put a stuffed furry toy in the mother's place, the baby showed signs of distress because it was not getting any feedback from the mother, I would imagine it may have done some stims under those ciurcumstances, like a self-soothing.


Also, take those animals and put them into a now good envionment and they continue to do the stereotypies.

The word you look for when looking into this type of thing outside of autism is stereotypies.



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22 Apr 2013, 11:10 am

whirlingmind wrote:
A treat for all you cat lovers out there:

Image Image Image Image Image

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Let me guess: The first one was fed after midnight? ^^



Raziel
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22 Apr 2013, 11:38 am

whirlingmind I have more and more the feeling that you seem to take this a bit too serious that many people here like cats!?

And with the Sphynx cats. I don't like the fact that there is taken a genetic defect to greate a cat breed, but I still think that they can have something very elegant and also serious in their appearance.

Image

But besides that. I don't have to think that every single kitty on earth is pretty or "nice" to like cats in general. :wink:
But for me, the orange one on your pics you were posting looks funny to me. It looks a lot like Garfield. :lol:

The
Cat lover :heart:


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Last edited by Raziel on 22 Apr 2013, 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.