Aspergers and victim complex

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If no one ever discussed their issues, then no one would be able to give them advice or try and help them. There would be no therapists either and no doctors. I think it becomes a victim complex if the person complains complains complains and does nothing to try and fix it. There are people out there who are like that, they would rather complain and not want to do anything to improve it and get better. That annoys lot of people, especially us. Then after a while we get so sick of it we might tell them to get over it or move on, stop looking for pity. I start to avoid those people after a while because that is all they ever talk about and they want to do nothing about it. I think that is what the OP was talking about.

I have trouble seeing life as a game you try to "win". Things that other people intensely strive for, social status, money, power, etc... climbing the corporate ladder, just don't interest me at all. I find those people boring. I find "playing life" boring and pointless. To me all it is is survival. The only point in having some dull stressful job is to have money to live. I don't get self-worth from it. Never have, never will. I do like a challenge, just not the kind of "challenge" society pushes on everyone. Sometimes I think my problem is life actually not challenging enough in a good way ( a way that keeps me mentally and physically active ) but challenging in all the sh***y ways ( tedious, stressful, depressing ).

Whatever helps one sleep at night, if someone wants to belive they chose their experiences in the spiritual realm before they were born so be it....but its not helpful to push that philosophy or present it to someone struggling with a real issue by saying 'well you do realize you chose this, so get over it'. Not everyone believes in that philosophy and perhaps not everyone should. If that really is what happens I suppose I will find out when I die....

double post.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 25 Apr 2014, 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've noticed a lot of times people seem to assume everyone has an endless amount of options and opportunities and will get aggravated at the fact a suggestion they make might not work for that individual then attack them for 'doing nothing to try and fix it'. I've seen that take place on lots of websites, so its certainly not something exclusive to this forum.

I personally have not run into anyone who isn't doing anything about it because they don't 'want' to, but I have ran into people who are either so burnt out they feel like giving up or don't have the ability to do much about it in that particular instance. Also with a lot of mental disorders/illnesses one can be so overwhelmed with what is going on in their mind they can't see all the available options or feel completely incapable of putting any options into action...ragging on someone for not knowing what to do, and not being in the process of successfully improving things has just always seemed cruel to me.

If I find someone's posts annoying/repetitive/whatever........I just don't read them.

I feel absolutely NO urge to come galloping in on my winged white steed, valiantly striking down people's incorrect worldviews, and demanding they adopt my approach to life lest they be considered "whiny." Bah.

I have no clue why certain people get so worked-up over things that impact their life in absolutely no way. It strikes me as self-righteous twaddle.

The way the concept of karma is presented in Buddhism is in the perspective of a particular scope which is called the Four Noble Truths. Buddhists do not believe in free will, but they do believe that a person can make certain choices. I think the same applies in Christianity and other religions. (Buddhists do not believe in a reincarnating soul, thought the concept of Hinduism is a little closer to that).

The main point is a human can make certain choices in the here and now which will affect his future, and these religions are giving an approach, just as we are using various approaches here, imo some of them not so good, or can discover new approaches which will help us adapt to and even transform or transcend various circumstances.The problem is that people tend to impute their own subjective contexts onto other people in a way which makes no sense though it is harder to see it when we are doing it ourselves.

A person does have the choice to see the glass as half empty or half full unless he literally believes his own thinking to Be the glass as half empty or half full and not just an interpretation. Then there is no way to see another's point of view, but if I know my own thinking is affecting how I feel, then this opens up a whole new world of possible choices.

I do not think the op's wording was that great, but he is trying to say something. I am not sure, but I think the reaction is that he is not accepting certain people as they are and that he represents to some people everyone in their entire lives who has harmed them and not accepted them. The thing is, imo, there really is no completely safe place,and ones own perception play into what one is experiencing, so the reason follows that if one does not have a choice about how one responds, then why should it be implied that the op does have a choice?.

We can only go so far with this line of reasoning I have just given, though it does make sense up to a point, Then after this point we need to find some kind of a more generalized approach but which does includes people from both ends of the stick. If we try to make a completely 'safe' place with a young child by taking away all frustration, he will never learn what he needs to know in order to survive. It is necessary to be kind to the child, but the child is in a world with other people also. When my aspergers child was around two she had a tantrum because when we were on a bus and only a few blocks from our home I made her get up and give her seat to a very old woman. The whole bus was crowded with people standing, most of them old people, and she went down on the floor of the bus surrounded by their legs and stretched out stiff as a board having a tantrum and screaming her head off. None of this was because she could not stand. She just liked the seat.

My ex boyfriend was one of those people. He was the first person ever. He had problems and I tried to help him but he always shot them down and always had an excuse for it. He was also stuck on being himself but yet would complain about the consequences about it because he was a dick so his family rejected him and then he was upset when I broke up with him and said I gave up on him. He did make it clear he did not want to change so he didn't and I tried talking to him about what he was doing was bothering me and he kept at it. I even told him I was starting to think about breaking up with him and he acted fine about it so when I finally did, he was hurt? I think now he may have thought I was threatening him because I read online some women will threaten to leave their partners if they don't do what they want. He may have thought I was doing that and then he saw I was serious when it happened so he called himself a screw up which made no sense because even if he knew before then, would he still have changed or just be stuck in his own ways? That part I will never understand. Things didn't work out between us. Sometimes I do wonder if his excuses were genuine but I will never know. I tell myself it doesn't matter because it's in the past and we will never be together again. He had no intention of working on things anyway because he was literally being himself.

People who are in situations but have given up or don't know what to do about it, that is probably why they tend to not talk about it such as they don't complain about their mean partner or their living situation or being poor, etc. I am that way too and I don't complain about having a disability because there is nothing I can do about it. I don't complain about my income or not having a high paying job or not being able to afford big trips. I hear there are people out there that will just complain just to complain so I could just complain about my income or how my job doesn't pay over $20 an hour or keep complaining about my disability. I used to complain about Asperger's so my parents would tell me I could have something worse and also tell me I just have to cope with it. Looking back, I can't believe I did that. How was complaining about having it and going "why me" going to make it better? That is what my parents used to tell me too, why complain about something if there is nothing you can do about it? They also used to say "that is life" and "it's just the way it is. Complaining won't change it" and "there is nothing you can do about it so no point in worrying about it." If I got in an accident and my car was wrecked and I wasn't at fault and there I was complaining about it, I know they would say something like "it's already happened, no point in fretting about it. It's life and things happen. being upset about it won't change it." I did the same to my ex too and now I wonder if he had OCD. I expected him to just get over it and him dwelling on things and being worried over small things and complaining drove me crazy. I was doing what my parents had done to me over the years and I would be dragged into therapy so I had someone to complain to about so they wouldn't have to listen to it and I was labeled as having OCD as well. Mom used to tell me "talk to (my therapist) about it." But I have learned to shut up about my thoughts and keep them to myself. I have learned to control it and keep it to myself.

I didn't suggest the best thing to do is remove all challenges and frustrations from someones life....that is ridiculous. However blaming someone for all the bad things that happen to them when a lot of it is things they aren't exactly in control of is also ridiculous. For instance when there was the lockdown at my school because someone with a gun came in and a student was shot....none of my actions or attitudes had anything to do with that happening. I cannot go back and look at that situation in a cup half full sort of way as there was nothing positive about it. So yes I take an issue with the opinion that its someones own actions that cause them problems in all cases and all they need is behavior modification.

As for the seat thing, did you have a seat? could have your two year old moved to your lap?..and was no one else willing to give up their seat? Guess the point is why did you feel your two year old needed to give up their seat specifically? Aside from that I could see other reasons besides liking the seat such as being afraid of losing balance/falling when the bus moves, being on the floor in the midst of a bunch of much taller unfamilier people all crowded together causing claustrophobic feelings, thinking they were being punished(not perceiving the old woman might have needed the seat more)...there are a number of things that could have caused the 'tantrum' though are you sure it wasn't a meltdown? those get confused with tantrums.

I tried for a very long time to just supress things, shut up about everything and not say anything about how s****y things are....and well that doesn't help me any. But I also don't endlessly complain about everything, I am not going to go on about how I can't go on some expensive trip to hawaii or stuff like that. However if I am frusterated about my financial situation I am likely to complain about it some.....but I've also noticed one can simply mention a problem they are having in an objective manner and still be accused of whining.

I can't say I agree with your parents philosophy....I mean I'd go insane if my parents constantly told me stuff like that it would jsut make me fee like 'everything sucks, thats just life and there is nothing I can do about it.....so whats the point'. I wonder where some people get the super human ability to not be upset by anything or have their mental health negatively affected by anything on the basis of 'thats life and nothing can be done about it'.

I think people can get stuck in that kind of exclusively problem-focused negativity, where they reject all solutions, because they have (temporarily) lost hope and/or confidence, and lose belief that things can get better. It's understandable that people who are close to them want to immediately offer solutions, which are typically rejected. But when you are really stuck at the bottom of the "hopeless and negative place", it's too soon (I think) for solutions and suggestions, well meant though they are. This just frustrates the giver and receiver, both end up saying "nothing works!"

When someone is trapped in the "dark endless negativity" the most urgent need is for "extreme emotional nutrition" - validation for how you are feeling, acceptance, to be heard without being offered advice straight off, understanding. This is a big ask, I know, for the supporter/friend/partner. But validation, support, just listening quietly and time can bring people out of that dark place at their own pace.

This is a process. Labelling people as having "a victim mentality" makes recovery harder - it's one more put down, when you are already really down. Yes, people may complain about things that seem really trivial - as the OP complained about - but the trivia can be symbolic of much deeper distress that they do not feel safe enough, or accepted enough to voice.

I am old. I didn't realise this when I was younger.

Every time I hear "the glass half-full OR half empty" cliche - and it is a cliche, I have to bite my lip to stop myself saying, "A glass at mid-level is BOTH half full AND half empty", not one or the other! But the level goes up and down according to the way things go - some things we can control, some things are beyond our control, the glass is the symbolic container for our feelings and responses to what happens. The liquid in the glass is a fluid! And in our interactions with other people - online or in person - we meet either "tank (glass) fillers" or "tank emptiers".

Time for a new metaphor to replace this tired old glass cliche, I think, one that doesn't pigeonhole people into being labelled "half-empty" people. The human condition is much bigger than any glass can contain!

B19 wrote:

I agree with this completely.



Agree here, too, but something seems to me to be over-generalized about your particular approach and the approach of some others. I do not know for sure, but I do not think the op is going on these threads of so called whiners and telling them not to whine, but on these kinds of threads on wp what I almost always see see is people really listening and offering all kinds of encouragement. I think the op is saying something else that is in some way pointing to a different kind of approach and a different kind of community organization that may be more helpful to these people, though I may be stretching it a bit toward the glass half full angle. In any case, I do not perceive you to be really listening to him, as he perhaps represents someone and/or something else to you.


This comment really bothers me, as maybe the complaint the op is making is symbolic of some deeper distress he is experiencing, so why not just listen to him????????


Glad you learned something....and maybe there is something more to learn...I didn't realize how very little I understood until I was over seventy.

NB; hale bopp is she/female and is a long time genuine member of the community.

as unpopular as it may be,am of the belief we need to give hale bopp the same tolerance/consideration we give those who hale bopp dislikes the behaviors of, as her own autism coud be affecting how she sees these behaviors,she might be a 'high functioning aspie' who doesnt relate to much of the community but it doesnt mean she coudnt be having trouble with ToM stuff etc.

Well you are quite a philosopher, and good for you for trying to sort things out and telling other people what kind of language to use instead of just listening to them:-), but that the glass analogy is a valuable analogy to talk about human brain function and how bias slants the processing of data in one direction or another to effect dramatic consequences in a human being's life which can lead either to happiness or unhappiness.

The thing about labeling people half empty with that analogy is it is your own subjective interpretation. By my interpretation and I assume the interpretation of most, the analogy applies to thinking about things and not a whole person in that a person can change his thinking, but the way you are thinking about this analogy is affecting the way you are feeling about it, so coloring the affect, and out of this or whatever affect an action occurs such as writing what you wote or even a change in mood. The whole point about the analogy is that everything is not fixed in stone but always in flux (just as you said), but according to ones subjective context and what one does with it, and people Do have a choice to change their particular style of data processing.

I find this comment extremely fascinating and valuable in terms of potential enquiry....

This is the most intelligent post here. The problem is a lot of people act as though emotions are completely irrelevant or can be changed at will. I mean, it isn't useful to feel pain when I stub my toe. Shouldn't I just be able to tell myself to stop feeling the pain since it serves no purpose? Yea, people don't want to hear me yelling when I stub my toe. If I injure myself, maybe it's okay to yell for a little bit until the pain subsides enough that I can care for the wound with first-aid. If someone just tells me to stop feeling physical pain and stop having a "victim complex", all that does is make me want to punch them as hard as I can right in the face. The message received is "I don't care that you are in pain, so be quiet".