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dyadiccounterpoint
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29 Apr 2019, 2:15 pm

Points 1 and 2 can go together in a certain kind of way.

Can you figure out how?


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Dear_one
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29 Apr 2019, 2:18 pm

I could probably find dozens, but I won't bother.



dyadiccounterpoint
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29 Apr 2019, 2:31 pm

Ugh...

Buying a large amount of tickets, but not so many that winning the draw would not be profitable (or barely profitable), will give an individual a greater chance of winning both the draw AND money than an individual who can only afford 1 ticket (or a similarly scarce number). A wealthy individual would be better able to sacrifice a smaller percentage of their assets on a larger amount of tickets than a poor individual would on a smaller amount of tickets and have this superior edge over the poor player in a fashion that would theoretically still be profitable if they hit their numbers.

This is how points 1 and 2 go together.


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Trogluddite
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29 Apr 2019, 4:04 pm

dyadiccounterpoint wrote:
...changes the odds because patterns emerge when you draw sequences.

Firstly, a little bit of an apology - I may have led things astray a little bit with the word "sequences". A winning lottery ticket has a "set" of numbers, but not a "sequence", because whether you win or not doesn't depend on the order that the numbers get drawn in. Whether or not patterns emerge in the drawing depends on what pool of things you're drawing from and how you select them. In this case, there's no reason that any patterns should form in theory, but it is possible if the random number generators are not designed well enough.

Drawing the numbers one at a time is in practice no different than shuffling all of the numbers into a completely random order, then picking a bunch all in one go - very like cutting a well shuffled pack of cards. The probabilities work out exactly the same as doing it one at a time (but not so dramatic on TV, of course!) Not sure if that helps for you, but it's clearer to me why there are no mathematical patterns if I think of it that way, somehow.

What you say about the number properties, and your 'photon' example are perfectly reasonable, there certainly are plenty of predictions you can make about how different ways of generating random numbers will spread the results out. Ironically, the engineering/programming to get the ideal, but totally boring, "likely to go everywhere" result can be fiendishly difficult; but you can bet your bottom dollar that the guys who designed the lottery machine got a bit fat paycheck for stopping gamblers from exploiting any weaknesses! (history trivia: the worlds first electronic lottery machine, "ERNIE", was based on the famous Colossus computer that cracked the WWII Nazi Enigma codes, and designed by the same boffin.)


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QuantumChemist
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29 Apr 2019, 6:41 pm

Antrax wrote:

While generally true, not all betting is skill-less like the lottery or slots.


There is a skill to playing the slots if you are a serious player. If the slot machine pays out a large jackpot, it tends to not pay out again until it has made up a portion of the money lost. This does to mean that it cannot hit multiple times in a row, but the chances are against the player that will happen. Not all slot machines are totally random.

I tend to watch people play for a while and look for a slot machine that has sucked money down without really paying out much. Once the slot player gives up on it, I will play a certain preset number of pulls on the machine to see if it is near payout stage. I won 4 mini jackpots from a series of slots machines side by side in one night by playing this way.

There have been times where I just watched and did not play as I did not feel like the slot machines were ready. I never expect to win, but am happy when I do. I almost won a progressive jackpot, but the ball on a spinner fell one slot over than the one it needed to. It would have payed $1.7 million if it would have landed on the right spot. I still won a few hundred off of it that night, so it was still a great day.

I only gamble a certain amount and then I am out for the time I am there, win or lose. The money I may lose is part of my entertainment budget for the month, so I never go past that amount. Not having a preset limit is a very bad way to gamble. If you cannot control how you gamble, that is a sign that you should not be there.

There are slot machine shows up on YouTube that one can watch if you want the experience of being there without losing or winning money. I occasionally watch them to see how the particular slot machines play before trying them myself.



Antrax
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29 Apr 2019, 7:00 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
Antrax wrote:

While generally true, not all betting is skill-less like the lottery or slots.


There is a skill to playing the slots if you are a serious player. If the slot machine pays out a large jackpot, it tends to not pay out again until it has made up a portion of the money lost. This does to mean that it cannot hit multiple times in a row, but the chances are against the player that will happen. Not all slot machines are totally random.

I tend to watch people play for a while and look for a slot machine that has sucked money down without really paying out much. Once the slot player gives up on it, I will play a certain preset number of pulls on the machine to see if it is near payout stage. I won 4 mini jackpots from a series of slots machines side by side in one night by playing this way.

There have been times where I just watched and did not play as I did not feel like the slot machines were ready. I never expect to win, but am happy when I do. I almost won a progressive jackpot, but the ball on a spinner fell one slot over than the one it needed to. It would have payed $1.7 million if it would have landed on the right spot. I still won a few hundred off of it that night, so it was still a great day.

I only gamble a certain amount and then I am out for the time I am there, win or lose. The money I may lose is part of my entertainment budget for the month, so I never go past that amount. Not having a preset limit is a very bad way to gamble. If you cannot control how you gamble, that is a sign that you should not be there.

There are slot machine shows up on YouTube that one can watch if you want the experience of being there without losing or winning money. I occasionally watch them to see how the particular slot machines play before trying them myself.


Ah yes I forgot about the "lurking" technique.


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dyadiccounterpoint
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29 Apr 2019, 10:55 pm

Thanks for your elaboration.

Considering they use machines with balls in it, can they really have an engineering/programming perfect system for true randomness?

Beyond the context of the lottery itself, can number generators produce outcomes which can be described by some kind of wizard differential equations? By wizard I mean that the "waveforms" of concentrations and scarcities need well defined parameters to plot them in a discernable fashion, and constructing those parameters would likely be difficult.

I'm probably trying too hard to make this sort of connection, but it tickles the brain to contemplate.

If I were correct that you can plot them in terms of concentrations and scarcities, wouldn't it be damn near impossible to make a "machine dropping balls" counteract the natural distributions? You'd need some control over the mathematics that these machines would seem incapable of exerting. If I'm not correct, then I suppose no worries.

EDIT: I see what you're saying about drawing one at a time...but wouldn't people have said the same thing about photons being sent through a hole one at a time before the discoveries of Schrodinger?


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sly279
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30 Apr 2019, 2:23 pm

Is this a lotto chat now?


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Dear_one
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30 Apr 2019, 2:45 pm

sly279 wrote:
Is this a lotto chat now?

No, we just had a flurry from the math weenies trying to prevail over other methods.

I never expected the economy to survive until I got a pension. When I was pouring everything into a business, I was below the income tax brackets, but still liable for pension contributions. However, not paying carried no strong penalty, and they were only charging me 4.5% interest, when a bank would barely look at me for 12. When it was about to hit, I still maintained a $10 Christmas budget, despite having a credit card.
The first thing that occurred to me was that I could maybe resume business, but that's only fun with a partner. The frugal habits of a lifetime continue, but without pressure now, so I can help others, and still see savings increase - a very rare sight in my papers.



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30 Apr 2019, 6:09 pm

my odds in vegas were improved when i did the following things-
*stick to nickel [5 cents] machines [slots]
*only start using a machine when i've witnessed at least 2 other people prime it first with their losses
*ALWAYS "bet 3" with a minimum investment of $20
i generally would win back my $20 and usually between another $10 and $20. one time i won $250, this was in 3 days of playing with the 1-armed bandits. it paid for my taxi fare and air fare there, at least.



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30 Apr 2019, 8:14 pm

No job

No job skills

Did not marry someone

Did not win lottery

Panhandling



No future


No hope



Should have shot myself age 21 after dismissed from structural engineering




f**k UCSD :roll:




:mrgreen:



Going to be homeless


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"Life" is a torture chamber, not a playground



auntblabby
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30 Apr 2019, 8:17 pm

for most, this world is an outer region of purgatory.



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01 May 2019, 4:25 pm

Where is your wife from, Kraftiekortie?



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01 May 2019, 6:28 pm

Nope, but then I live with my parents, so there's 3 incomes in our household. If I were on my own, yeah I'd be poor cause I am on disability.



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01 May 2019, 8:14 pm

I get by okay, I guess. I want to go into nursing, which doesn't start off very lucrative.