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Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 10:28 pm

Loborojo wrote:
I never held or hold pot parties, I do have my rituals inviting the entities to visit my place and my body, and I don't recognize the term 'drugs' which has polluted the world's concept of sacred plants and degraded and deprived many an indigenous nation in the jungle and Andes of its millenary sacred plant. ... So, don't judge me or my rituals until you actually sit down with me and see what happens.

I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience some form of ecstasy. There is always some ersatz "Shaman" or "Dealer" whose only connection with the "shamanistic" culture" is having been rejected by even the most liberal of European cultures (from which they're usually deported, as well). And all that the participants end up with is a hangover, soiled clothing, and an incredible case of the munchies.

Don't preach to me about "legitimized" drug abuse, because there is no such thing, except where there is no law.



Last edited by Fnord on 09 Feb 2009, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dussel
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09 Feb 2009, 10:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience


It is after all not such a bad trick - If you use psychedelic drugs and you start the trip with some bad emotions, it can derail quickly. Embedding such experiences into a ritual may helpful to canalize the experiences. But: This has nothing to do with anything supernatural, and experienced users do not need such silly games. They know when better not a drug or how to guide the direction of an experience on their own.



Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 10:44 pm

Fnord wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
I never held or hold pot parties, I do have my rituals inviting the entities to visit my place and my body, and I don't recognize the term 'drugs' which has polluted the world's concept of sacred plants and degraded and deprived many an indigenous nation in the jungle and Andes of its millenary sacred plant. ... blah ... blah ... blah ... So, don't judge me or my rituals until you actually sit down with me and see what happens.

I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience some form of ecstasy. There is always some ersatz "Shaman" who is really the dealer. And all that the participants end up with is a hangover, soiled clothing, and an incredible case of the munchies.

Ritual? HAH! A pot party is a pot party is a freeking pot party!

Junkies hiding their illegal drug use behind "religious freedom" is just one more reason for me to have contempt for religion - and junkies!


sorry, you have been highly traumatized and indeed consumed pot and not with any connection at all, I see that happening in Peru too where there is a western ayahuasca tourism, luckily I never fallen for ersatz or traps like that, as I said i never hodl parties, I hate groups and crowds ( I am an Asperger remember) and most of it I do 99,9 % alone, so no getting high search, no dealing, not even selling my ayahusca or San Pedro, I also have never hangovers or vomit (real shamans never vomit), on the contrary I come out of it renewed, full of energy, I don't need to disguise anything, because I don't go for the high trip, the drink itself is horrible enough for peole to say no to it, no orgies either.

So, yes YOU attended drugparties, waht a shame to have abused the plant. COme and learn with the real Andean shamans and learn some respect...I think that's about all I can say to you. You are lost and hitting your head against a brick wall.


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Last edited by Loborojo on 09 Feb 2009, 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 10:46 pm

Dussel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience

It is after all not such a bad trick - If you use psychedelic drugs and you start the trip with some bad emotions, it can derail quickly. Embedding such experiences into a ritual may helpful to canalize the experiences. But: This has nothing to do with anything supernatural, and experienced users do not need such silly games. They know when better not a drug or how to guide the direction of an experience on their own.

"Trick" being the operative word. All I ever saw at these rituals were people puking, soiling themselves, passing out, and occasionally having convulsions - all advertised as a "Spiritual" experience (for a hefty fee, of course).

You just can't spell the word "Shaman" without "Sham".



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09 Feb 2009, 10:47 pm

Dussel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience


It is after all not such a bad trick - If you use psychedelic drugs and you start the trip with some bad emotions, it can derail quickly. Embedding such experiences into a ritual may helpful to canalize the experiences. But: This has nothing to do with anything supernatural, and experienced users do not need such silly games. They know when better not a drug or how to guide the direction of an experience on their own.
ou

where do you actually get your info fro? Books, tales from junkies, who failed hoepelessly, you don't control anything, the plant guides you...you let go of control if you have some respect. It is not like: I am the best swimmer I can defeat the sea (most likely they are the first to drown). If you have never tried anything serious of the sort, these comments of yours are so typical rational and western spooonfed-


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millie
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09 Feb 2009, 10:49 pm

Quote:
Fnord wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
I never held or hold pot parties, I do have my rituals inviting the entities to visit my place and my body, and I don't recognize the term 'drugs' which has polluted the world's concept of sacred plants and degraded and deprived many an indigenous nation in the jungle and Andes of its millenary sacred plant. ... So, don't judge me or my rituals until you actually sit down with me and see what happens.

I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience some form of ecstasy. There is always some ersatz "Shaman" or "Dealer" whose only connection with the "shamanistic" culture" is having been rejected by even the most liberal of European cultures (from which they're usually deported, as well). And all that the participants end up with is a hangover, soiled clothing, and an incredible case of the munchies.

Don't preach to me about "legitimized" drug abuse, because there is no such thing, except where there is no law.



Fnordie! (risen inflection yet again.) You are a cannibal. eating them alive.....

:lol: :lol:


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09 Feb 2009, 10:50 pm

the vomiting is part of the cleansing.

Jivaro Indians go on a fortnight drinking tobacco juice and a diet and vomit, the more they vomit the more they get in trance. You guys vomit becaus of the extensive toxification by cigarettes, alcohol, etc, I never vomit. In Paraguay they heal heroin and cocaine addicts with Ayahuasca.


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Last edited by Loborojo on 09 Feb 2009, 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Feb 2009, 10:53 pm

millie wrote:
Quote:
Fnord wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
I never held or hold pot parties, I do have my rituals inviting the entities to visit my place and my body, and I don't recognize the term 'drugs' which has polluted the world's concept of sacred plants and degraded and deprived many an indigenous nation in the jungle and Andes of its millenary sacred plant. ... So, don't judge me or my rituals until you actually sit down with me and see what happens.

I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience some form of ecstasy. There is always some ersatz "Shaman" or "Dealer" whose only connection with the "shamanistic" culture" is having been rejected by even the most liberal of European cultures (from which they're usually deported, as well). And all that the participants end up with is a hangover, soiled clothing, and an incredible case of the munchies.

Don't preach to me about "legitimized" drug abuse, because there is no such thing, except where there is no law.



Fnordie! (risen inflection yet again.) You are a cannibal. eating them alive.....

:lol: :lol:


poor sod, what do you know? In Peru, the land and seat of the Incas, nothing is illegal of the sacred plants, coacine and heroin yes and Marihuana, thanks to the USA veto, and I am not preaching my dear, just giving tit fot ignoarant tat. You think the rest of the world is USA too?? Man I travelled 59 countries, I see and od with my own ears and eyes, what others have to read in dusty books written by blinded or prejudiced scholars.

Sorry, but no not sorry for you


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Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 10:55 pm

Loborojo wrote:
COme and learn with the real Andean shamans and learn some respect...I think that's about all I can say to you. You are lost and hitting your head against a brick wall.

No, I will not travel to another foreign country just to have another drug orgy in another dirt-floored hut led by another self-proclaimed "spiritual" leader and yet again waste my hard-earned money doing so.

Tell you what; YOU come to America, and try to spread your drug gospel here! Not even the Navajo try to actively recruit outsiders to their "rituals". I'm sure that the Department of Homeland Security already has your name on file, and they would be only too willing to greet you as soon as you step off the plane.



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09 Feb 2009, 10:58 pm

Fnord wrote:
Dussel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience

It is after all not such a bad trick - If you use psychedelic drugs and you start the trip with some bad emotions, it can derail quickly. Embedding such experiences into a ritual may helpful to canalize the experiences. But: This has nothing to do with anything supernatural, and experienced users do not need such silly games. They know when better not a drug or how to guide the direction of an experience on their own.

"Trick" being the operative word. All I ever saw at these rituals were people puking, soiling themselves, passing out, and occasionally having convulsions - all advertised as a "Spiritual" experience (for a hefty fee, of course).


This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.

Fnord wrote:
You just can't spell the word "Shaman" without "Sham".


There is nothing more dangerous than using drugs informed. In this case I would dangerous "sham"!



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09 Feb 2009, 11:01 pm

Dussel wrote:
This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.

What did the "Shamans" care? They already had the tourists' money, so why bother avoiding derailments?



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09 Feb 2009, 11:04 pm

Fnord wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
COme and learn with the real Andean shamans and learn some respect...I think that's about all I can say to you. You are lost and hitting your head against a brick wall.

No, I will not travel to another foreign country just to have another drug orgy in another dirt-floored hut led by another self-proclaimed "spiritual" leader and yet again waste my hard-earned money doing so.

Tell you what; YOU come to America, and try to spread your drug gospel here! Not even the Navajo try to actively recruit outsiders to their "rituals". I'm sure that the Department of Homeland Security already has your name on file, and they would be only too willing to greet you as soon as you step off the plane.


I never felt any attraction to the USA, because apart from the natives, there is no spirituality, you live on cemetary of a buried culture killed of for the sake of the green back.

No real shaman In South America recruits them either...but out of all that I posted here you have bitter little given any sence of ral understanding of what I am trying to say here. It's like a blindfold toddler banging his drum: I don't want to hear it, I know it all, after all you live in God's own country' right and the rest of the world is the villain and the outlaw.

The Narive american Church exists, teh Cia kills shamans everywhere in the Americas, your filthy pastors of evangelical origine, hwo f****d up your country from the first itme the pilgrims set foot in America and now they are f*****g it up in South and central america, too bad their intelligence is not waiting at the airport in Lima or Bogotá for them.

Bush should have been breastfed with ayahuasca, he would have had enlightenment and be less agressive, don't know if he would have been less stupid, but if you can't get your head around other cultures you never visited or read about, then shut the f**k up!! !


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09 Feb 2009, 11:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
Dussel wrote:
This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.

What did the "Shamans" care? They already had the tourists' money, so why bother avoiding derailments?


that's the point, he wasn't a real shaman so don't balme the profession or the ones who are not there, he was a simple man in the money game to satisfy a tourist's thirst for an exotic experience, and on top he was willing to pay for his fancy!


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09 Feb 2009, 11:08 pm

Dussel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Dussel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience

It is after all not such a bad trick - If you use psychedelic drugs and you start the trip with some bad emotions, it can derail quickly. Embedding such experiences into a ritual may helpful to canalize the experiences. But: This has nothing to do with anything supernatural, and experienced users do not need such silly games. They know when better not a drug or how to guide the direction of an experience on their own.

"Trick" being the operative word. All I ever saw at these rituals were people puking, soiling themselves, passing out, and occasionally having convulsions - all advertised as a "Spiritual" experience (for a hefty fee, of course).


This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.

Fnord wrote:
You just can't spell the word "Shaman" without "Sham".


There is nothing more dangerous than using drugs informed. In this case I would dangerous "sham"!


a combination of different drugs, that says it all!!


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09 Feb 2009, 11:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
Dussel wrote:
This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.

What did the "Shamans" care? They already had the tourists' money, so why bother avoiding derailments?


It can be very dangerous: Beside physical issues (suffocation of your own vomit), there are mental issues. such an experience can trigger e.g. a hidden psychosis or can bring hidden angst to surface and the angst than manifests into a harmless spider which in the mind turns to a life-threatening monster. This especially difficult if unknown persons are taking the drug. You do just not know what mental ballast they have.

There are other drugs around which more safe to use with a stranger than the psychedelic ones used in such rituals.



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09 Feb 2009, 11:14 pm

I introduced a friend of mine to ayahuasca in Europe, we were friends, so the atmosphere was ok, not threatening for her. She was on ati-depressants. She had more energy than ever before, she only took it once, and stayed away from the the anti-depressants. 1 year later i met her again, and still off the anti-depressants. that was what I call healing and with a ritual and respect for what teh shamsn in the Andes call, sacred medicine which the plant is.
But I rest my case, I don't need to have the last word...put your rants in the rant thread.


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