Do you think that Elitism is a problem in the WP community?

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That was in response to TheDoctor but I was being light hearted. I think it's good advice because (and I did this too), when people come to WP they can get caught up in a stereotype and with each post they try to conform more and more to it and sometimes it get's harder to discern the meaning...
I was thinking...what if every Aspie had their very own C-3PO? Our relationship problems would be solved. We could send our Human Relations Representatives and they could figure it out for us. I think C-3PO was created with Aspies in mind.
I know some people are going to object, before they do, keep horses in mind. There was a time everyone relied on horses to do the heavy work they couldn't, and to walk and run for them. Haul, pull, whatever. It was up to the horses and not the people. People began to realize it wasn't fair to horses subjecting them to this so they invented machines. This is the idea behind human relations droids going out there for us Aspies. Not a bad idea.

You can suggest all you want. But I have more life experience than most NTs ever had. I've been all over the place in life, from children, military, college, legal system, scientific research.

I've gotten to the point in life where most NTs bore me. You see, there is a penalty that comes from having social skills. Social skills requires a closed loop cognitive system where identity and personality cognitive structures are heavily involved in how NTs construct reality from moment to moment. This gives rise to their living in a sifted, or filtered reality, consistent with what their Ego identity, their personality comfort zones and, for most of them, what is acceptable to believe in their group's world view. Once you meet a few NTs in one culture, you start to learn their personality types and what world of reality they imagine they live in. The cost of all those social gifts they experience is that most of their minds, and their perception of reality, occurs within a box, and maintaining that box and their social skills ties up a lot of their cognitive resources. Once you figure out their box -- their world view and their game, most NTs are strangely dull and shallow. And frankly, most of them are unaware of their own games, the fallacies underlying their belief systems or their shaky relationship with an objective reality. After a few days with most NTs, I'm feeling like I want to chew my arm off to get away.

One consequence of lacking key social skills is that huge areas of the mind are freed for direct thinking. IMO, that trait and the honesty makes most AS more interesting to me than most NTs.

There are NTs who are really worthwhile and interesting, but they outgrow that when they get out of college. Then, some of them become real and interesting again after they retire. In-between, they tend to be full of games and BS.

Why the hell should I talk to NTs who take care of AS children? You have such a reverence for NTs, it's laughable.

Your problem is not that you have very low standards of who to look up to, but that you insist on generalizing your low standards to all AS because we have the same neurotraits you do. You need to recognize that not all AS are the limited creatures you imagine yourself to be.

Yeah, my house is insanely messy. I rarely get out this year at all. But that only makes a difference to me if I put those at the top of the list as defining my humanity and experience of life. I've had babies, saved peoples' lives, had great lovers and I've graduated from a top engineering school and worked at national research labs. Why in the hell would I fixate on my house being messy as defining my worth?

Your emotional prison of inferiority and your focus on your impairments as AS is a mental construct that you have built for yourself because that is what you choose and that is a mental coping mechanism you prefer. Please don't generalize your low standards and low self-esteem to me.

There are men who walked on the moon, and who built new worlds of knowledge on their own. Lots of people exceed their natural limitations. Who are you to insist that all AS share your self-limiting prison of inferiority? Or that I need to define myself by how NTs show success?

Uh, there is a link between intellectual function and social function deficits. But I don't know who has been going around claiming I.Q. is associated "with aspergers and only aspergers". Sounds like an invention of yours.



You are using the world "fallacious" but you have no idea that your own assertion in the foregoing statement is a common fallacy. Just because there are "hordes of non aspergers people that share these same abilities and traits" doesn't mean that any particular ability or trait is or is not related to AS. The fallacy in your thinking is the converse of a fallacy called "causation is correlation". You can google it. You think that because traits are or are not associated with a condition (correlation), that implies causation or proves lack of a causal relationship. This fallacy of "causation is correlation" is a really basic, simple error in analysis. The only theories and belief systems that kind of sloppy thinking supports is crackpot stuff, like the dim-bulb conspiracy theorists who believe that airplane contrails in the sky are the government spraying us with mind-altering chemicals. Your arguments and statements sound like the of wacko "analysis" of these conspiracy theorists.

You can build whatever belief system you want to rationalize your bad feelings about yourself, but please don't project your unsound analysis and theories onto the world of all AS. Or, if you believe so strongly in your limitations, at least consider the possibility that you're too limited to build coherent theories that frame AS correctly for all people everywhere.

Your low self-esteem and bad feelings about yourself are in you and are about you. Low self esteem isn't an inherent trait of AS.

You know I have come to a new conclusion you're an ....na I cant say that
, lets just say I find your psychoanalysis of me and your views to be idiotic. Just so you know a little about me since my DX I have found peace with my life, I no longer need to wonder WHY, I now KNOW. So please do not think that you have the right to tell me of my low self esteem or bad feelings about myself. The year or so since I discovered AS has been absolutely fantastic.

Aspergers has a profound affect upon those that have it and those that put up with it. If you want to sit there in your clouds of delusion go for it, but do not criticise those of us that are willing to face up to some uncomfortable facts.

And as for your recent vitriolic attack on neurotypicals I would suggest that you have a rather large need for a bit of helpful psychoanalysis yourself.

This debate started because I dared to suggest that having aspergers does not make one superior to those that do not have it. If you are so bloody foolish to disagree with this so be it. I have nothing more to say to you.

Thanks, I think I've heard enough of your theories and analytical thinking to want to hear any more.

Finally, haven't you ever heard that AS is highly individual? Your compulsive need to project your own world view of AS and personal experience of AS onto all other AS is a whole other layer of unsound thinking that has no basis in reality.

All you are doing is rationalizing your low self-esteem as being an implied part of the syndrome. Good luck with getting a lot of out that fixation.

I dont want to get banned so that is all I will say.

He didn't appear to be doing that.
What about your low IQ AS and high IQ AS? Ephemerella, can someone with AS have a low IQ since you have to possess, at the very least, an average IQ to earn the diagnosis? Where do you get the idea that there are two types of AS?

Thankyou

Ephermerrella, why is it that it's perfectly okay for you to speak about how much you enjoy AS and how evil and pathetic NT's are, but when someone comes along who doesn't think AS is the ultimate gift and that NT's aren't that bad, they're self-defeating people trying to shove their thinking down everyone's throats?

Hypocritical, to say the least.

Anyway, AS is an individual thing, we shouldn't use this for every trouble that we have... At least we should face some of them to the best of our abilities... And do not worry about anything else.

QFT

That's probably the best advice I've heard so far.

I don't think AS or autism is going to define how smart or intellegent you are especially given in our social constructs of what it means to be "highly intellegent". But we all have our own abilities and I'm sure they can be just as useful as any other "smarts".

Absolutely.

Well, I tend to think of AS I.Q. as being very fluid and difficult to measure.

Also, I tend to use "AS" to refer to "Autism Spectrum", not just Asperger Syndrome (but that depends on context).

I don't tend to think of any AS has being smarter than any other, except in the context of specific subjects. This is as follows:

If you have difficulty debating due to particular cognitive issues, you shouldn't interfere with the debates of those AS who have higher ability to debate. If you have difficulty with scientific theories due to other cognitive issues, you shouldn't try to use "heretic" or "crazy" to label those who say scientific things that threaten your belief system. There is specific I.Q. in specific fields of ability, like rhetoric and science, and people who don't get what is going on shouldn't shut down debates or demonize science that they don't understand. That's the only time I think I.Q. should be an issue in a community like this.

But I guess the notion of having field-specific I.Q. (i.e. "math I.Q.", "emotional I.Q.", "verbal I.Q.") applies to NTs as well, not just AS.

We can view AS traits and negative and inferior, as AS existence as being a brain-damaged hell, and of your potential as impaired. But those are all value judgments that are related to some egotistical world view. To me, the whole compulsion to impose value judgments on AS is pretty weird.

Who are these people who insist on imposing those kinds of negative value judgments on a neurological condition and labeling all deviant AS who don't accept the judgments as being "elitists"? Why the need to go around explaining that they have AS and that failure and loserness is an implied inescapable part of AS?

Do they even have AS or are they just personally devastated NT losers who try to flee into an AS diagnosis to escape their personal demons and rationalize their failures?

Edited to add: I have failed and lost and been traumatized plenty of times in my life, but then so are many NTs. What I don't need is some guy carrying an AS-is-a-brain-damaged-hell poster trying to persuade me that failure and disability is my lot in life and my inevitable future.

Last edited by ephemerella on 14 Mar 2009, 7:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

I really cannot be bothered with your very strange and absurd perspective.

But you what would be fun? why don't you post some of this in PPR. MMMmmmmmmm I shall have pleasant dreams just thinking about the result

Last edited by DentArthurDent on 14 Mar 2009, 7:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

Probably because I don't go around trying to claim that my experience with my AS is universally true for all AS. And I don't use lame, half-baked "theories" to explain why value judgments should be applied to a physical neurological condition.

(You are embellishing my own words with your own exaggerations as you interpret them).

If you want to take a pill and cure yourself of AS, you are free to want to do that. But you and the OP, who are fixated on trying to prove that AS is a brain damage and illness, are doing so because you are trying to project the negative value judgments of your own low-self-esteem self-hate onto all of AS.

If you believe you are ill and damaged, and that your life is an inevitable impaired failure, go right ahead.

Just please stop getting so upset when I post replies pointing out the flaws in the defective "analysis" explaining unsound "theories" that you claim support your ideas.