Need advice: How to proceed with my son

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This is my first post, I'm new to this whole subject....

My son has not been diagnosed with Asperger's (as yet)

My son has been going through a rough patch in school (4th grade). Every day he comes back with tales of how someone had beaten him up, or called him names. The school says that he annoys the other kids and despite their "best" efforts this keeps on happening.

Till March he had had the occasional incidents with other children (~ once every two weeks or so), and the teachers have always noticed he's a bit odd. He frequently needs a personal invitation to take out books and another invitation to open them, doesn't take notes, but he's always gotten by OK in school, so we mostly ignored it. He also makes faces to himself in class and noises which has annoyed several teachers, and he loves chewing (like chewing shirts).

At home he does everything just like our other children. Generally he is the one with the most original responses to questions, and occasionally a sweet type of naive. He has had friends and even a best friend for several years (till March), and plays fine with kids in small groups. When he is in large groups or big social functions, or school assemblies he does get something I would refer to as "intoxicated" (but without drinking )

The school has been pressing (quite hard) for us to get a diagnosis, so that they can get the funding they need (in-class aide for several hours a week, and someone who will give the teacher consultations.

We took him to a psychologist who suggested he may have Asperger's syndrome.

But after reading the diagnostic criteria (and seeing a selection of youtube videos, he doesn't really match (no repetitive movements, no focused areas of interest, no adherence to routines, fine with changes, understands language metaphors and similies.)

It is our feeling now that if we do a multi-disciplinary evaluation, he could be categorized as either Asperger's or PDD-NOS (a number of professionals seem way too eager to hand out a diagnosis, even without meeting the child...

Questions:
1. Anybody in the forum regret having been formally diagnosed?
a. Has the label caused more harm than good for how other's view you? (including parents, teachers and peers)
b. Has having a diagnosis ever been hurtful to your ability to challenge yourself? (Do you use it as a crutch?)
2. Has anyone in the forum switched schools and "removed" the label.
3. Did you tell your child about the diagnosis?
a. He's not stupid, he asked us after the second meeting with the psychologist, "why did she ask me those weird questions, does she think I'm autistic!?"
4. Has anyone pursued treatment solely outside the school system? (My trust of the school system is not at an all time high)
5. Has anyone received a personal diagnosis without specifying a category?

Any help or insights would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
Harold

NT kids tease and tyrannize weaker kids all the time and nobody puts them on meds, nobody puts them in special ed. Autistic kids don't tease anybody and yet they are put on meds and kicked out of regular school all the time. Is that a double standard?

Quick hello, and welcome to Wrong Planet.

I would leave a longer more helpful post, but I have to get off to work, so I will just tell you this:

You may want to make this post in the Parent's Discussion.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/forum19.html

It is a message board specifically for this sort of thing and you will probably get more relevant responses.

Uh man--> teachers!!

funding uh......

amazing isn't it, how easy it is for others to sacrifice one for their own agenda.

Nothing wrong with your kid .... he's a kid. Sadly today the Teachers in schools aren't adults. I wouldn't bother with the psychologist (my parents hesitantly took me to one - once and once only.... after they heard what the Quack had to say I presume they agreed they can do without his advice)

Don't get hyped up in the trend of Autism... in many upon many cases it's used as an excuse.


I would rather ignore your school and just let them say what they have to say and snub them. If your kid is "annoying" , bad luck, there is such a thing as anoying people... how boring would the world be without them(hell the teacher would have nothing to talk about to you then...maybe they would have to actually teach)

Doesn't write notes WOW .... I never knew you had to either - it's not Autism if your non-conformist/lazy.... I knew I was never going to read my notess again (how wrong I was untill I got to University) ... notes for a 4th grader. uh, if he gets by and isn't conforming to what teacher says, I say you should be proud.

about the chewing....

is there a girl in school or even the adult world (a pic of an office gril comes to mind) that doens't chew/play with their hair.

I chewed my school t shirt collar too (and I wasn t the only one) - this is not Autism.

Making faces is a crime now... oh no you must be diagnosed if your bored with what's going on in class... or if you have the balls to make an adult subversive facial expression to the teacher.

Uh Teachers - second to recruiting agents.

Mental health professionals are often too eager to assign labels to kids and yes, such labels can cause more harm than good.

When my nephew was beginning elementary school, the school officials wanted to label him with ADD as he was quite active
and precocious for his age. His mother would not allow it. Mom never regretted her decision and today, this kid is in his third
year at Cornell University as an Enginneering student and likely to graduate with high honors. (He was the Salutatorian of his
high school class.)

It sounds like your son has something more going on in his young life ...and like you say, doesn't "fit" the criteria of a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome. When I was a small child, there was no DSM-IV diagnosis for Asperger's Syndrome and I endured severe anquish and abuse in the mental health system labelled with too many diagnoses that were totally wrong. It wasn't until
adulthood that I received a correct diagnosis of AS. Yet, despite my challenges and difficulties growing up without adequate
services and support appropriate to my needs, I had a loving family who cared about me. That is what is truly important.
Do not place much credence in mental health professions...too many of them are simply only interest in their own economic well-being and give little consideration to the consequance of their often wrongful advice.

Prehaps, your son needs more outside social activities where he can build his self confidence being amongst his peers...

It is apparent that school causes too much stress for him and he feels the need to revert to the behaviors of a much younger
child (and why the other kids find him "odd") in order to feel comfortable. Sometimes, a child like your son, can benefit from
repeating an elementary grade level which places him a year older than the other kids in class. It allows the child to develop
the maturity and confidence he needs to feel comfortable among his similiar aged peers. No one has to know that he is the oldest in the class, either. In childhood, there are clearly defined lines between a 7-8-9-10- year old but, there is no defining
lines between a 26-27 or 28 year old.

Please be cautious when dealing with mental health professionals.

Best of luck to you!

Last edited by Zsazsa on 02 Jun 2009, 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

here here...

very good advice from Zsa Zsa

especially about doing outside activities...

have you considered scouts, Sailing, motorbikes(though that's not so socialiizing and doesn't promote teamwork or concentration in social situations)

Definatly a team and learning type of external school activity helps ALOT!!.... just be carefull what you choose Taekwondo classes maybe end up being a waste of time if all he does is turn up to class and then leave... he has to have fun in an environment of freindship not aquintanceship.

considered going back to Church? (not that I would)

If he were autistic then you would have noticed before the 4th grade. Notwithstanding, someone on another thread posted the criteria for each of the ASDs. The thread has to do with left brain dominance.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/overvi ... iteria.htm

I also agree with the advice of Zsazsa.

Not necessarily. We knew my eldest was "really shy," and then she was "young for her age," and as she got older and older she just got further and further from the norm. We didn't seek any kind of diagnosis for her until she was 10. A lot of that had to do with our acceptance of differences, the fact she went to a Quaker school where differences are more than embraced, and the fact she was our first. We didn't have anything to compare it with, to call it "different."

It's so good to hear other opinions.

We haven't discussed with friends and family for fear of how they would view him, so we've been relying solely on the school, the psychologist, and our own common sense which has been saying "careful".

Thanks for your input,


Harold

Sorry, lost focus halfway through your post but trying to sum up what I got out of it and answer your questions:

1.a) A label is both good and bad, some people label you as ret*d others just as 'you' and so on. I'd say a child would benefit from understand but should be given the freedom to keep his/her diagnosis to himself. But from what you've described about formal invites, faces and being bullied, there's good reason to risk it.
I got beaten on a fairly regular basis during my first 9 years in school, always awkward, outsider alone and so on and, to be fair a diagnosis at that point couldn't really make it worse.

1.b) I think everyone uses their diagnosis as a crutch at first, but given time and information about it and doing a whole lot of contemplating most rise above their paper and start using their sides instead to their advantage. But, yes, it is a crutch sometimes and does get in the way. Other times it's a relief, when you try and try and try and still fail, instead of just hating yourself and getting into a depression there's always that "Well I have these issues and I tried atleast."

2. When I got my AS diagnosis I was offered a spot in a school with specialization on AS students, which gave me alot of relief. Now at Univ I tend to be restrictive with who knows, teachers all do ofc (Hey it's bloody psychology) but the students each year all react different if they find out, some label me as plain ret*d, others not at all, some ask more and most just back away slowly..

3. When it comes to kids getting diagnosises I think it was Simon Baron-Cohen who pointed out that the presentation makes the difference between a family-tragedy and being informed about being left handed. (Rough quotation)
Atleast for me my AS has never been a 'disorder' in any way. I've always seen it as a benefit in the end, given that I'm done with the hard parts.. Both you and your child should see it as being a personality difference and in no way a disorder or a handicap.

4. Treatment outside the school system? Not sure I understand this one because I never had ANY treatment INSIDE the school system. Either way don't go expect "treatment" in terms of "getting well". As pointed out before AS is not a handicap but a difference, it's hardcoded and if given the proper care the best thing you could wish for. Not sure where I was going with that.. Anyways what you can expect is medication and information, working out ways to solve problems with the teachers and so on.
For what it's worth I firmly believe you should do Everything on the diagnosed persons terms. If he doesn't give a hump about being bullied, don't bother. I didn't, nor any of those around me with AS, it's just not in our spectra of understanding or interest.
And that goes for every other thing too, let him be part of it, let him propose solutions and let him think about suggestions.
Most of us have this little issue that if put in a situation with two persons of 'higher rank' (Lacking the proper word but, you know, parent and a shrink....) say "would you like this? It's a good way" most will just go "Sure.." despite what we really think about it.
So rather propose solutions (+2) and then ask "How would you like it to be?" without stressing anything. Let him make the plan.

5. What? Please explain this one?


And from a short look at the replies I have to say - Don't get the idea that he'll be better off being forced into social activities.
If he comes out with an Asperger diagnosis, let him follow his own interests instead. And keep him away from computergames if he has other interests..



Edit: Summarized reply to the rest of the post here:
The fact that he talks about the events with the other kids points away from Autism -- If he's upset about it atleast.
Most autistic kids lack social understanding and won't really be offended.
Also -- What are these incidents with the other kids?

The invitation thing is a rather strong AS sign, if it's not just him being .. what's the word.. "Trying to be annoying for the sake of it.."
Faces and noises are either attentionseeking or tics, in my case it was tics and pissed the hell out of everyone.
Difference is usually his reaction to being notified about it. Tics are not volontary so they should cause more 'shame' whereas attentionseeking behaviour would result in amplified behaviour, laughter or smiling.

We all go through the oral face, chewing on things.. Some of us a little longer though, an ex-girlfriend of mine gave me a chew-ring (toddler thing) on my 18th birthday so.... yeah..
(we all chew on shirts for one reason or another, or hair or whatever when we're young, nervosity, itching in gums, etc. etc.)

Small groups, few but close friends - AS-sign.
Myself I get sleepy among new people or in assemblies. Usually slept through most.
How he handles it is up to him but if intoxication means the clumsy, staggering parts there you go.
If it's more of the "Oooh I love you so much" part of being drunk I think you might have another issue on your hands

Don't take YouTube videos and such as any indication of a 'typical' AS person.
There are none.
I for one handle change, don't do routines, have interests and are good at them but they're not manic in any way, I can communicate fine and am well versed with sarcasm..
What you want to care for is:
(Wiki copy)
1. qualitative impairment in social interaction -- Any that goes beyond "A few friends and on his terms"
2. restricted, repetitive and stereotyped behaviors and interests -- To me this meant my love for videogames as a kid and the tendency to hang out with other kids who had a NES or Amiga or such. Also played with Lego all day long and got pissy when I had to go eat and stuff. It's NOT any extreme "Oh he only looks in phonebooks all day long" thing.
3. significant impairment in important areas of functioning -- School, socially - Etc.
4. no significant delay in language development -- Sometimes the opposite even.
5. no significant delay in cognitive development, self-help skills or adaptive behaviors (other than social interaction) -- Didn't find any of these signs in your text.
6. criteria are not met for another specific pervasive developmental disorder or schizophrenia.

Last edited by Xs142 on 02 Jun 2009, 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

i werent diagnosed anything except depression before i hit 12 and was diagnosed with as

this iswhy u don't trust the phschiatric system...

did u know ANYONE other than Nuns and Hue Heffner can be diagnosed with depression...

ask ur pschiatrist... to TRUly TEL U. What the criteria are...

you will be surprised how easy it is be be diagnosed. positive

I wasn't stating this on the basis of a formal diagnosis, but rather a parent can clearly see whether the child fits the criteria (or as best as they understand the criteria). I have to agree from the one side that most psychiatrists don't seem to know the things in which they are supposedly experts. If the original poster feels that the criteria fit to the best of his understanding, then it is best that he keeps asking questions about it with the so-called professionals. Eventually, you will find a professional who is competant enough to address the concerns.

or you find one that is sociopathic enough to manipulate you into being more concerned and hence lighter with ur wallet...

ps Most pschiatrist and pschologists are actually sociopaths and they know it(it was taugt to them) ... the whole reason they becamo what they are is because they wanted a "better understanding" Sadly they can't be existencial to their own dogma... they will always be just diagnosing themselves through their patients.