diffusing meltdowns in kids?

Post Reply New Topic

there's a girl in my family, about 6, who shows definite signs of PDD and her parents are arranging for neurological testing. so where she falls is yet to be determined, but I got really sick over something her mother said that made me start wondering about what people do to manage meltdowns.

I know I made mistakes with my son before he was dx'd NLD. once I slapped him across the face when he verbally threatened me during a meltdown brought on by anxiety over stuff his dad was doing to him. a couple of times I had to do a full body restraint on him until he quit thrashing, which was probably less traumatic but I was still just guessing about what I should do and couldn't read the signs of impending meltdown. so I'm not trying to judge anyone, just trying to figure out why her mom reacted to me the way she did and if I'm really out of line in my thinking.

this little girl has what her mom called meltdowns once in a while. I know the girl is stubborn and difficult to communicate with, but generally a great kid and the mom is a good parent who patiently repeats herself a dozen times until the little girl "gets it" that she can't have what she wants.

then she had a meltdown the other day that degenerated into yelling and throwing things. the mom said that usually spanking her snaps her out of it (that part alarmed me, but she explained her spankings are three swats, so not extreme) but it didn't work this time so she sloshed water on her, which did work.

I'm not anti-spanking, I think it has its place but probably not as much if her kid really does have sensory integration issues. I thought pouring water on a kid was too much though, even if it did "work". I told her I thought it was extreme and she should consider looking into redirection, which apparently really offended her because in her opinion she already does that.

so I wanted feedback, because I got an earful about how she's the expert on her child, she has so many years combined raising kids (which I guess was an implied comparison to my fewer years, but maybe not) and that I was interpreting her account in light of my experiences with my own children. I was actually more concerned about the little girl in light of the fact that her parents expressed concern about possible sensory integration issues.

to me, trying to control a distraught 6 year old with spanking and splashing her with water sounds counter-productive no matter how in control the parent is. am I wrong? do kids in meltdown need to be physically shocked out of it so you can talk to them? I know a woman who at times has to put her son in a body hold for his own protection and everyone else's until he calmed down enough to talk. in my mind (and experience), actively redirecting means not getting into a battle of wills in the first place. it seems like it's be better to just quit the activity until the kid can come back to it without fighting. like seriously, just tell the kid that you want to read with them but as long as they are doing so-and-so, you're going to take a break from it, then leave the room. I'm guessing there still might be a tantrum, but would a real meltdown occur if the battle for control, hence the anxiety over things not being the way the kid wants, was simply terminated?

I guess my thinking is that the girl is going to have to learn some self-management strategies. she can't rely on her teachers and peers to hit her or throw water on her, so taking a time out is a better solution. when I've had the girl over and she starts screaming "shut up" because it's too loud, I tell her that she doesn't get to tell people to shut up in my house, but if it's too noisy she can move to a quieter spot, and if she needs my help, I'll help her. a couple of times she went out into my backyard for a while. other times she sat on my couch.

I guess I'm just confused. this woman has no problem telling me what she thinks of my parenting, including criticizing me for making excuses for my son's behavior (to me NLD isn't an excuse, it's an explanation for why my son needs extra help and why his social interactions need to be managed so he doesn't get pushed into meltdowns while he's learning skills to manage his behavior). maybe the real problem is that she knows everything and I'm obviously a failure as a parent because of my son's problems. if that's the case, I suppose the best thing to do is extricate myself from any situation where she's going to talk about her kids or mine.

ok, that was a ramble. sorry if it was too long to read.

I'm not sure, I'm not a parent and I know there's a lot I don't understand..
I think it's probably not as bad as, say, endlessly screaming at the kid.
A lot of parents reject any kind of physical punishment, and in the process do things that are more emotionally traumatizing, especially if the parent loses their temper. Things like excessive yelling or guilt tripping, that also don't necessarily end when the behavior that provoked them ends.
If it effectively "snaps her out of it," and her mother doesn't lose her temper and hurt her, and there isn't a reasonable alternative.. well, if there isn't a reasonable alternative, there isn't a reasonable alternative..

*sigh* I don't know. The mother sounds a bit full of herself.. but again, I'm not a parent.. I don't really know.
I hope I haven't said anything offensive, I'm not entirely sure what to say at all.

What's the alternative to what she does?

no, you haven't said anything offensive

there are alternatives. I'd have to talk to my old neighbor about them, but it was all redirection and reward, and it was a lot more work than spanking.

I guess my point is more that spanking and throwing water on the little girl works for the mom. from what I've read about sensory integration issues, physical punishment (even though she doesn't intend it as punishment, it still is) isn't the best option, and it sure doesn't teach the kid self-management. that's why I suggested she look at redirection, which is what offended her. she left a lot out of her account previous to my suggestion, and for some reason treated it as an attack on her parenting and decided to launch a counter-attack on me.

so I'm wondering, do meltdowns HAVE to be stopped, if a parent didn't manage to see the signs of one coming on, and probably contributed to the meltdown by getting into a control battle with the kid? maybe the parent should just step off if the kid isn't hurting herself, or use restraint if she is. is it really a big deal to intervene right in the middle of your kid going psychotic crazy? what is the best way to stop a child in meltdown?

my mom beat up on me when I had meltdowns, so I don't even know what would have worked for me as a child. what works now is quiet and not being touched or talked to. the same thing works for my son. he just has to be by himself for a while.

I'm probably just going to check out of the relationship for now. I seem to catch a lot of flack from her friends, who've said nasty things about my son. one woman even accused my son of ruining her relationship with her daughter because my son overheard the family member in question tell me that her friend's daughter liked my son. the family member seemed perfectly ok with me and my son taking the fall for that one after he told the girl that her mom said she liked him, and never 'fessed up that she was the one who let the secret out.

With my 7 yo we're trying to teach him to remove himself from the situation during a meltdown. We don't use any type of physical punishment, ever. When he was younger, and before that I knew he was autistic, I listened to a friend that suggested I restrain him from behind, and bear hug him until his meltdown was over. I really, really wish that I'd never done that. I only did it a few times, but I still worry about how much that might have traumatized him. There were a few times that I had to move him, or block him so that he wouldn't hurt himself, but that's entirely different. Just from my own experience in having what I'd call meltdowns any type of external stimuli gets magnified 10 times. With all of that adrenalin pumping every part of my sensory system is so heightened that it's unbearable.

I don't think it's totally possible to stop a meltdown once it's begun. If it were that easy it would be considered a tantrum, which is voluntary. I don't feel that meltdowns are ever voluntary. I grew up in a house that was strict about behavior. Any type of acting out was not allowed, so instead I'd have shutdowns, which in some ways are worse, and last a lot longer. When you stifle that much emotion it will come out somewhere. Most likely as OCD, depression, and extreme anxiety. That's why I don't recommend encouraging a child to stifle a meltdown, but instead to work through it appropriately.

At school my son has a 'take a break' card. It's a PEC that he has at his desk at all times. He's supposed to give it to the teacher whenever he's about to have a meltdown, and go to a designated take a break space, which is a tent in the back of the room with some books, and such in it. He has never gone voluntarily. I think he views it as a punishment. He will need to learn to utilize this space as he grows older, because not only is it inappropriate to sit there crying, and yelling in the middle of the class, but his peers are going to start to make fun of him for that sort of behavior. At home, I tell him to go to his room until he can calm down. It usually takes a minute or two before he'll go (and I have had to carry him) but he will usually do it. It's the only way that I've found to de-escalate his meltdown. When he's alone, there's nothing to keep provoking him. He'll rant to himself for a few minutes, then play with his trains. (one of his special interests)

I agree that having somewhere calm and quiet to go is the best thing.
I got spanked twice, I think, and then my parents decided that spanking was bad, and that it was better to scream and scream and scream at me. Because obviously, it's so much worse to spank your kid than it is to scream at them, scream at them some more, and when they run to their room crying, follow them and barge in in order to continue screaming. (you can "hear" the sarcasm, right?)
I think that if there's something that stops the behavior without causing all kinds of anger and stuff, it's better than something that creates more anxiety and overwhelm.
I think that most things in parenting are kinda grey, and depend on what the parent is able to do. If the meltdown continuing would cause the parent to lose their temper, while it's still not the best possible thing for the kid, something to stop it is preferable. It's always worse if the kid losing it causes the parent to lose it too.
People tend to get defensive about parenting. I think most of it is because it is all so grey, and dependent on what the parent is capable of as well as the specifics of the child.. all people are different.
I usually try to keep my nose out of parenting discussions, because I don't know, and I always end up getting told that, and people are usually quite nasty about notifying me of my own ignorance on the subject.
Ok.. I was supposed to get to a point, I think.. or did I already? Just like I said.. less overall anger from the parent is better. So if what she does prevents her from losing her temper, it's better than attempting to do something she's not emotionally capable of.

The only thing that I've learned from getting spankings, is that it was okay to beat up on the bullies who made me angry.

yeah, getting screamed at is horrible. either way it seems like sensory overload with shutdown being the only viable option. I guess that's why I was emotionally shut down so much when I was married to my ex. it was the only safe place to be, since he loved pushing me into meltdown for entertainment, then felt justified in hitting me.

serenity, your kid is lucky that you have a good option so early. we didn't figure it out until several years later for my son and he was already attacking peers and teachers so there was a lot of bad conditioning that had to be worked through, which he got to go to a day treatment program for. it's really cool now that he's 13 I can see the signs and ask him if he needs to be alone. if he says yes, then everyone has to respect it. if we're somewhere where he can't be alone, I offer him my ipod, or get him to talk about something and he manages to keep a lid on it until we get someplace where he can decompress.

I'm still not really sure what's going on with the little girl's mom. I'm about done with her. she has no problem getting on my case about the way I handle my kids when she doesn't actually understand what NLD is, and getting so bent out of shape over me suggesting she get some help... because that's what it boiled down to. she has her s**t together and she doesn't need professional help. if she didn't exaggerate things and leave out context when she's describing things, I probably wouldn't have become so alarmed, even if I do think spanking and throwing water on a kid in meltdown is, when it comes down to it, abusive to the child because of the sensory overload you mentioned, serenity.

but, maybe her kid is perfectly normal and doesn't have sensory issues and that was another of her drama-fests and it really was just a great big temper tantrum. from what I've observed, the girl certainly seems to have some delays, and she's anti-social, and half the time she doesn't understand what I've said to her until I repeat it 3-4 times.

all I know is I give up. I'm staying quiet around the mom when it comes to my kids' problems, and I won't comment on hers.

I'm confused as to the relationship.. you said the little girl is in your family? So the mother is like a sister-in-law or a cousin or something? Sorry, just kinda trying to figure out the dynamic between you, and how often you see them. Is it like a see-each-other-three-times-a-year-at-family-functions thing, or something closer?
If you describe the possibility of her exaggerating it all like that as "another" drama-fest, it seems likely. Especially if she continues to insist that there isn't a problem. Making her kid's behavior seem out-of-control and then saying that she's an expert in raising the kid is kinda contradictory. Maybe the mother just wants attention? The daughter may just take after her like that, too, or follow her mother's example. The way you describe it, it kinda sounds like the mother tends to throw her own tantrums, too.

A lot of times when NT women complain about their child's/husband's/boyfriend's/boss's behavior it isn't meant to solicit advice. It's some sort of weird sharing thing that they do. They just want you to nod, and say something like "that must be hard", or something to that effect. If in doubt of whether or not they are actually looking for advice I just go with the generic statement, if I want to keep the relationship amicable. Of course, I do forget a lot, and out comes a slew of solutions that I think will help them with their problems, but instead offends them. I'm guessing that that is what happened in this situation.

Is that an NT thing, or an NT female thing? I've frequently heard of guys complaining how it doesn't make any sense that women complain about things but don't actually seem to want to solutions, just want to talk. I guess occasionally I just want to talk, but I think usually if I want to talk about something I'm open to advice on it. Sometimes maybe not quite so much about how to fix it as just how to deal with it?

she's a close relative and we talk online occasionally.

I've apologized 3 times already and tried to explain my point of view, and told her I would refrain from commenting or showing concern in the future because I have a hard time filling in the blanks and I just go on the information provided, then she said I'm being passive-aggressive and I should ask for more information before giving advice.

it's a no-win situation. I explained it's unlikely that I'll ask for more information because I can't tell when it's ok to do that, so instead I'll just let it pass because that is the only thing that will work for me if she won't give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm not attacking, I'm just concerned.

god people confuse me. some of her friends could say the same thing I did and she'd just explain the situation. other of her friends would get the same smack-down I did. I wonder what it is about us that warrants the different treatment?

In my experience, people who blame you for commenting on something that they've been talking about, while at the same time criticizing you for similar things, are simply people who like to attack like that. And then they assume that since they make all kinds of verbal attacks, that you do too. She's criticizing your parenting, so if you make any kind of comment about her own parenting, she assumes that you're attacking her, since it's what she would be doing if she were in your place. I've ended up with a lot of headache and a lot of heartache trying to figure out what it is that pleases people who do that. I've learned that when somebody displays that type of behavior, nothing I do or say will ever please them, because they want to find somebody to blame for everything, and I'm an easy target. It's a very borderline-esque behavior.

you know what's really screwed up? I'm supposedly the one who's narcissistic, but I don't really have a problem understanding other people's problems from their point of view, if they take the time to explain it.

anyway, thanks for the feedback and for just being here. I usually feel like an oddball and just plain awkward, and it really sucks that a gesture of concern was turned into such a weird and stressful situation.

you guys snapped me out of wanting to go into hermit-mode. now I know I'm not as screwed up as I was feeling, so maybe I can let it go. hopefully she can too, but I guess that part isn't my problem.

Unless you left something huge out of your whole story, it was definitely not you that was screwed up in this. (By something huge, I mean like if she had a Ph.D in child psychology and had written a widely accepted thesis on distinguishing meltdowns from tantrums and dealing with them both. )

nope, she just came out of the same screwed up family I did and is doing her best.

she also did add that she believes her daughter is is on the autistic spectrum. I really think she should rethink her strategies, if that's the case, but now I'm smart enough to keep my mouth shut. it seems like she simply doesn't like being wrong, so if someone says they think she did something wrong, she goes into full combat mode. except for a few people who seem to be able to say anything they want to her and she'll patiently explain her point of view. I'm obviously not one of them.

I did at least stick up for myself and tell her I'm not going to ask for more information because I just don't think to do that, so if she thinks I need more it's up to her to provide it, and I'll do my best not to comment when she brings these things up because of the difficulty I have figuring out what she's really trying to communicate.... so at least it looks like a truce, until the next time she has drama and I get concerned and inadvertently say something that offends her, which I feel is an inevitability if I maintain contact with her.

I really don't know... to be honest. I'm guessing that most NT women do it to some extent, but I'm really not sure about NT men.

Bhetti, I'm glad that you're feeling better. I think that you ought to be proud of yourself for looking at the situation with logic, and objectivity. There's a lot of people that couldn't have done that.