Jealousy and possessiveness

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I expect this issue has come up before, but I haven't noticed it.

I occasionally read that Aspies are supposed to be more possessive than NTs. Is there any truth in that? I don't know of any statistics, but I'd imagine that with impaired ability to read body language, and a sense of insecurity based on relationships not lasting (or very rarely starting), it wouldn't surprise me if the average Aspie wouldn't want to take too many risks by being excessively generous about the level of freedom they'd extend to a partner.

Looking at my own case, I certainly wouldn't try to describe myself as non-possessive, and make no bones about the fact that I've usually taken a dim view of partners of mine who have wanted to put themselves into any kind of significant sexual danger, though I'd hate to see myself as somebody who would unnecessarily try to restrict a partner's freedom to live their own life. I think the terminology can be confusing - some people refer to being "possessive" as if it's an absolute evil which must be surgically removed, whereas others refer to being "too possessive" as if a certain amount of it is inevitable and perhaps even desirable. I'd go for the second option, but of course it depends on definitions.

I scored as "not being too possessive" on a Web test, though I wasn't very impressed with the test, which was mostly aimed at teenagers (can anybody recommend a good test?)......interestingly, the same site had a test for being "too trusting" - I scored very low, and was told at the end that I really wasn't anything like trusting enough. I suppose the two concepts are inter-related, and you'd think that my not being the trusting type would make me a possessive partner, but apparently not.

How do you measure possessiveness anyway? I noticed a lot of the questions were about power relations - "when you go out together, who decides where you go?" - which I didn't realise had anything to do with the subject. I'd have more called that "domineering," though I guess there may be little difference.

Comments, please. Are you possessive? Do you think it's an Aspie thing? How do you feel about possessiveness?

You don't really sound possessive, you sound just protective. There's a big difference, but a lot of people lump them together as soon as they run across someone who is both.

(bolding added by me, not the OP)

This is too possessive. The word "unnecessarily" gives it away. You may think that some safety restrictions are necessary for you to impose for your partner's own good. Your partner is an adult. Parents and other caregivers impose safety restrictions on children because the children are unable to judge safety for themselves. Partners don't impose safety restrictions on each other. They can argue, they can advise, they can yell "don't do that! you'll get hurt!" but they can't do anything other than offer the advise and hope it gets taken. If my husband wants to reshingle the roof himself, that's his right. I can plead with him not to do it- we can hire a roofer- but in the end it's his body and his decision.

It sounds like you are not respecting the adult autonomy of your partners to look out for their own safety, and that's what's too possesive. Especially if your attempts to keep them out of "significant sexual danger" are actually attempts to restrict what they wear. I hear warning bells when I read that because I had a friend who got into a relationship with a very possessive man and the first warning sign is that he tried to restrict what clothes she could wear "for her own good".

I am extremely loyal, but I wouldn't say that's possessive. If I put my trust in someone, I have a tendency to trust them a whole lot... probably too much, in fact. I think that trust and possessiveness of others are inversely proportional.

In my experience, possessiveness arises from jealousy, and jealousy from one's own insecurity. If you think you are possessive, think about that chain for a moment and see if it describes you.

In my opinion, jealousy and being posessive are potential features with Aspergers due to the need for control of all aspects of ones life - it's not IMO down to being insecure thanks to previous failed attempts at relationships - I have aspergers and have had 3 major relationships in my life, none of which suddenly fell apart on me leaving me with any commitment issues (a 3 year relationship which I ended as it wasn't working out, an 11 year co-habitation/common-law relationship which was ended upon mutual agreement and we remain friends, and I have just now had my 3rd wedding anniversary with someone I have been with for nearly 6 years) and let me assure you that being posessive is NOTHING to do with having had insecure relationships in the past, because I have no bad memories of my previous relationships. I do really have to restrain my posessive instincts though, in order to maintain a healthy relationship.

In my view, it has nothing to do with previous failures and has everything to do with a need for control - I have to give over control and TRUST my husband to not do anything bad that would upset me - it is OK if you are just controlling your own life, but letting someone else in and realising you can't control theirs is SO difficult. I have a need to control everything that comes within my sphere of existence - and being OK with my husband going out for a drink after work with his workmates is, for me at least, a challenge. But he HAS to be able to do that, and live his own life, that is not always completely predictable and under my control - giving in to that and accepting it is what is difficult.

I am not going to pretend that I deal with it like a "normal" NT person would, because I would be lying - my husband goes out for drinks with his work colleagues probably once every couplr of months so not very often at all, but I get very stressed because it's not my 'normal' routine, and also I have anxiety disorder so I have wild thoughts about him falling under a tube train on his way home - that's not really relevant but I hope it serves as an example of how his infrequent and perfectly acceptable (to most people) and very occasional after work social activity makes me feel and behave in an 'abnormal' manner.

I think the main problem I always have in my relationships is that I can't control someone and know their every thought - the thing is that I am nearly 40 now, and I really do seem to be coming to terms with that a bit more now. I have less anxiety about it than I used to. I have also learned to better control the anxiety that I do feel, there are some thoughts that you really should realise are unreasonable, arise only as a result of your own anxiety, and therefore keep to yourself rather than making it your partner's problem too when they have done absolutely nothing wrong.

I am completely loyal myself, and it is only within the last few years that I have come to terms with the fact that you have to let go of control and accept loyalty from others, taking them at their word. Trust is a really difficult issue, but I have come to the opinion over the years that it is actually better to give your heart away and get hurt occasionally rather than close up and never let anyone get near you. In order to have a healthy relationship you need to accept that you can't ever know or control what your partner is doing 24/7. It's not an easy thing to do.

I've never been a jealous person. A little possessive, perhaps. I went to a swimming pool party with an ex several years ago. I was 18, she was 16. I didn't swim, though. I sat at a table and read a book (Chuck Palahniuk's "Survivor" to be exact). Then a bunch of her friends wanted to play Spin-The-Bottle. A friend of hers came up and asked me if I felt it was okay for her to play, and I said I didn't feel comfortable with that. I guess she didn't like that too much. I was told after we had broken up that she thought I was possessive. But aren't we all? Perhaps the game is harmless, but in my head I couldn't bare to think of her kissing anyone else. I never felt she'd cheat on me, so it was never an issue of jealousy.

I have definitely tried to work on it. I can be possessive...I guess...I have been possessive in the past...It does certainly arise from insecurity...low self esteem....a lousy opinion I have of myself and my value as a companion....rotten theory of mind does not make it any easier.....and I certainly beat myself up over it when I have these feelings...I know full and well that my partners are not objects that I can posess...duh....but I have been covetous and fearful of losing the friendship I have with my "other" partner in the event that he gets a "real" girlfriend..because his friendship is really important to me...and fear of it's loss has caused me quite a bit of undue stress...which I suppose counts as possessiveness...But we talk about other girls he likes all the time...it has gotten easier....

I am no longer possessive of my main partner...He is a free agent...He could have 6 girls in the bed with him right this moment and I would not care...(EDIT: currently there are 2)
We are polyamorous..But in the earlier phase of our relationship before I was willingly able to make this transition, I felt constantly threatened by his teasing about polyamory, because it made me feel like he was constantly on the prowl for someone to replace me the way he had replaced his previous partner with me...and it made me feel jealous and threatened by everyone...and this is what partially led to my having a breakdown where I ended up leaving him for 6 months....

blah blah blah....I really am working on it. I have to constantly remind myself that I have value as a person and my close friends/partners aren't just going to discard me.

It depends on what you mean by "imposing" - ultimately, I can't impose anything on another person, and even if I could force them to behave differently, I'd feel awful about doing that, as I've said. But if a partner were to start taking serious risks (sexual or otherwise) that gave me serious long-term anxiety problems, there would come a point when I'd be unable to relate to her, and would need to consider ending the relationship.....and then there's a very hard decision to make - whether to give her a chance to put things right and keep the relationship going (which from the outside would be easy to construe as an attempt to control the person by threatening to quit if certain demands aren't met), or whether to just quit without handing out that warning on the way, which is of course not possessive at all, though hardly any more kind.

In a sense you're correct, it is indeed the partner's right to do what they want with their own body, but it's also their partner's right to get out of the relationship if it's too hurtful or scary for them to cope with. I would hope that it would never have to be like that with two people who cared about each other deeply. The one contemplating the risks would, I hope, have a strong regard for their partner's feelings, and would be prepared to forego the delights of any risk-taking that upset them too much. Of course if that proves to be too restrictive and they find they can hardly live at all without thoroughly disgusting or scaring their partner half to death, then naturally they need to split up. It can be seen as the fault of one "possessive" partner who is too untrusting or insecure to cope, or as the fault of a partner who is too immature and uncommitted to tone down their needs for sexual license or high-octane risk taking, but ultimately the only objective truth is that there is a personality mismatch that screams out for correction or dissolution.

It's sadly ironic that a person's permanent commitment can be the very thing that makes "possessiveness" so tempting to them - if you're free to change partners, you don't need to change your current partner's behaviour. It's not always the case, but often I think the root of possessive behaviour is in the commitment which is still being extended by the "injured" party. But I've heard of men who have affairs while keeping their own wives tied down, and that's criminal in my view.


With regard to restricting what a partner wears, I think you have to look at who moves the goalposts. In my own case I learned to make my attitude plain before there was any significant emotional involvement. It wasn't easy, and it scared me to do that, as it was bound to reduce my attractiveness to a lot of women, but all I was really losing was the chance of relationships with women to whom I was completely unsuited. In my youth it was different. I never set out to "trap" partners - it was just that it came as a huge shock to discover that once I'd become strongly emotionally involved with somebody, I just couldn't stand the idea of them walking about in revealing clothes in front of other men. Some guys feel like that and it's nothing to be ashamed of. For a long time I was in denial about it, deeply embarrassed, and I fought it for years, and was naturally misunderstood a lot, as it must have looked like I'd deliberately set out to trap some of my partners. But eventually I had to accept that it was a strong and permanent part of my psyche. Not that any of my expectations were ever all that hard to meet. Relationships are about sharing a life together, to some extent.

I'm possessive of my items around the house, lol, but that's really about it.

I love my boyfriend and all, but I think he has more issues with worrying about me when I do things than I do about him. He trusts me, he just worries a lot is all.

I just kind of assume everything will be alright when he goes somewhere, and if I don't see him for a long time, I don't mind it too much (which bothers him quite a bit at times), but it's because I know he's doing classwork or hanging out with his guy friends or something like that.

When I go anywhere, he's always wanting me to call as soon as I get back, or if plans change, before I leave, etc. Not to keep a time limit on me, but to make sure I'm alright. It kind of freaks me out at times just because I know I'm going to be okay, and I'm not used to someone worrying so much about me. He doesn't limit where I can go or anything like that, he just wants to make sure I'm okay all the time when I go somewhere.

I almost feel bad for not being the same way...

I won't be jealous or possessive usually unless someone gives me reason to be, or reason to think anything is going on.

I could see how possessiveness could potentially affect a person with AS, due to a combination of one or all of the issues mentioned elsewhere on this thread - but luckily I don't seem to suffer from it myself. In fact I was accused by one of my ex-girlfriends of being too detached to care enough to be possessive (which can drive people away just as often as the opposite behavioural extreme).

Sounds to me like you were just assuming your relationship with her was on a more mature footing than it turned out to be. My guess is that, apart from some teenagers, most people would take the idea of their partner playing a game of spin-the-bottle as a grounds for serious concern. Especially right under their nose like that. It's said that very young people often have only loose connections with their partners, and that they don't really consider their relationships to be all that serious, in which case I guess it's OK to play whatever sexual games are around, but it's not a part of everybody's culture. I guess if their standards of behaviour were a lot more hedonistic and liberal than yours, they would have viewed you as possessive, though I'm sure a lot of folks would have sided with you and had sympathy for you being caught up in a bad situation with a load of immature kids.

Not that I think all non-monogamous behaviour is necessarily immature or immoral. A lot of more mature people get into unconventional forms of relationships, and I wouldn't view all those with brothel-spectacles. In many cases it's a perfectly serious and sincere attempt to find something more workable than the standard nuclear family, and I have a lot of sympathy with them, though I wouldn't go in for it myself any more. A long time ago I had a good relationship with a married woman whose husband was openly promiscuous (and as I was unattached, there was nobody who could get hurt). The deal was that it was OK for me and this lady to spend time together as long as we didn't think of breaking up her marriage.....interestingly, although the guy insisted he wasn't jealous at all, he clearly didn't like us to hang about together in his presence. The arrangement broke up when I found another partner who I fell in love with, and it just felt completely wrong for me to keep seeing the other woman.



I can understand your feelings of insecurity...I once got a partner who "belonged" to somebody else, and she used her relationship with me as a way of leaving him, so when it became just me and her, I became terrified that I'd go the same way as her previous partner, and in the end that's exactly what happened. She was insecure and had stayed with him (and then me) simply because she was afraid to strike out on her own and be partnerless for a while....she went on to do the same thing with another guy or two after that, and it would always bring out the worst in them. I never really let my anxieties surface while we were together, and I'm sure they did a lot of damage while I repressed them like that, I'd get really angry with her without knowing why.

It can also feel quite precarious to have to share a partner, and to some extent it's justified to feel that way, though monogamy isn't necessarily stable or reassuring either of course. Point taken about a rotten theory of mind......I suppose people who can "read" their partner's intentions don't have to use blind faith so much, they might be able to just read it in their eyes when they're up to something. Luckily Aspies are learning animals, I think that with experience I've managed to work out a lot about how to "sense" whether my relationships are stable or not. I hope your insecurity gets better - main thing is not to repress it like I did, and to accept it as natural. Too many people are ashamed of their insecurities. And if I were you, I wouldn't try to learn to live with it when a partner is waxing lyrical about other partners....not if you find it hurtful. But I'm not you of course, and your experiences of these things might be entirely different to mine.

It can be tough...and also I sorta have alexithymea in addition to the rotten TOM....which makes it very difficult to work through anything...I don't know half the time why i feel certain ways, or what it is within my right to feel...and it can be very difficult to communicate about things sometimes...I had a meltdown today and I tried to tell my friend about it and it all came out sounding very jumbled and my friend got very mad at me because I wasn't understanding the reasons why i have been upset today, but he apparently did...

My "other" partner likes to "wax lyrical" mostly about imaginary or potential other partners...or scenarios...He develops crushes on beautiful girls who he never speaks to..but will tell me about them....It is all within his right as I am his friend that he tells things to...and he is not my posession....I am aware that he may someday find a "real" partner ....and sometimes it can even be fun when he talks about it...though sometimes it can hurt a bit..because he has these really high standards for female physical beauty that I don't really live up to...and that makes me sad. Sometimes I am aware that I might be hurting my self-esteem by staying so fixated on a partner who does not find me physically attractive...but maybe I should not take his lyrical waxings so seriously.

I believe it's within your right to feel anything that you do happen to feel. I don't know a lot about feelings, but I do know that we have no direct control over them, that they come into our minds unbidden....it's what we do about our feelings that's more to do with right and wrong. Stuff like jealousy can't be dismissed just like that as if it's wrong to feel that way.

It's a pity that your friend lost patience with you. I guess it can be frustrating for somebody who thinks they can see the other person's emotions, if the other person just doesn't seem to get it. But if you can't see your emotions, you can't see them, and anger isn't going to help.



I used to think that true friendship was about being able to talk to the friend about anything that came into my head, and be listened to and sympathised with every time, but I don't think that any more. It never went down well when I did that, even with my openly promiscuous partners and with women I wasn't involved with. It took me a while to work it out....I found it hard to believe just how much of their self-esteem most women invest in their physical attractiveness, and how easy it is to hurt somebody like that with a few ill-chosen words.

I don't think men are as immune to it as they try to appear, either. Women haven't compared me to other men like that very often. My first wife, years before we were married, started on about how sexy she thought Jimi Hendrix was, and it took me a couple of hours to shake off the lousy feeling that gave me. I railed at her about it....luckily she got the message and she didn't do it again. But she never acknowledged that it had been a bit brutal of her to talk that way, and she kind of insinuated that I was just too sensitive, and that made me feel insecure, to think that there were things she might do to me that would hurt me, that maybe nobody else would see as hurtful. It would be like somebody punching me really hard and everybody saying that I hadn't been punched, that I wasn't really hurt, and should just get over it, and that it was me that was in the wrong. But what I felt was what I felt, and I think it was that kind of cold, couldn't-care-less attitude she often had with me that began to put me off her. I didn't understand my feelings at the time, or maybe we could have talked it through. It's often like that for me, it can take years to put into words how I felt about a thing, but when the feelings are significant, I can often remember them perfectly, decades later. I mean that event happened about 38 years ago.

More recently, about 1990, a fairly new girlfriend started talking about Steve McQueen in a similar way. I didn't respond at all, and then she suddenly stopped and said "but maybe I shouldn't be talking like that to you?" - I brushed it aside and said that I was so incredibly attractive anyway that it didn't bother me. Looking back, I think I should have said something like "well, it's OK at the moment because I haven't known you very long, but if we stay together, there's probably going to come a time when a remark like that could really hurt me, so I'd like you to bear that in mind."

I think that the older I've got, and the more relationships I've had, the longer it takes for those tender dependency needs to start locking in. And more recent partners have never really got me to that level, even after a couple of years or more, because I guess I've learned to fight it, in order to protect myself. Of course it's cost me a lot of closeness, but without that holding back, I'd be too vulnerable.

Somebody said that when they acted completely non-jealous, that they got accused of not caring - I think that's true, partners can sense something's wrong, and sometimes they even throw something in to see if they can provoke a jealous response. When women have, it's always messed up the way I've felt about them. The behaviour I really can't stand is when they just use it to get reassurance that the partner cares, but they never come clean about what they did, always holding the partner in darkness, pretending it was just an innocent accident. I like to think that most people are above such things.