Have I Been Bigoted Against NT's?

Post Reply New Topic

I just got out of a psych unit because I broke up with my drug addict BF and I had a brief psychosis as a result. It was like snapping due to stress and it had to do with bipolar depression. Anyway, the psychiatrist asked me why I didn't try to socialize more. I told him it was useless to socialize with NT's because they are shallow and caught up in status and looks and money and other BS. He said I was stereotyping everyone who is not autistic and that I was a BIGOT. Yes, he used that word.

As I contemplate it, he is right. I have been a bigot towards NT's. I believe there is a continuum of NTness and some do have depth and aren't so into the pecking order of social constructs. I believe I need to find and open myself up more to people like that. I've been creating a lot of my own isolation by closing my mind to all NT friendships. I'm working now to change that.

I have been lucky to know plenty of people who don't fit the NT stereotype. I find many people put on an NT mask for work or socializing with unfamiliar people and then relax and take that mask off at home. It is assumed in the NT world that one must play many roles to get along. They just accept it as a part of life. The truly shallow people are out there but not as many as you'd think. Sometimes all it takes is for you to ask an NT how they feel about something and you'll find there's a lot more depth than you'd think. I think it's great you are willing to look at things differently whitetiger.

Maybe to some extent stereotyping NTs is bigotry, but at the same time.. not socializing on a psych ward is hardly something someone should be blamed for. In addition.. did this psychiatrist know you? If he's a psychiatrist on a short-term ward, he probably has a whole crapload of patients, constantly changing, so you can't hold yourself to his opinion. Think about it, recognize that almost all qualities that can be attributed to human beings are spectra. (Um, I think spectra is the plural of spectrum, since my spellchecker underlined "spectrums" but not "spectra") You just can't group human beings into neat little boxes; most things exist on a continuum.
Don't just totally dismiss anybody who may or may not be completely NT, but at the same time, constantly dealing with people you can't possibly understand is too stressful to really be possible. Judging people isn't always completely bad-- it's how you know who you want to associate with. Also, recognize that your own negative judgment of someone isn't necessarily total condemnation. You're not obligated to like everybody. Just because you don't want to spend time with someone doesn't mean you hate them. How you get along with different people is a spectrum too.

A simple way of changing it is to tell yourself autistics can be just as bad as anyone else, they can judge, bully, commit crimes, cheat, lie, steal, etc.

I have seen aspies who are jerks and been bullied by a few and gotten the same crap from them I got from normal kids growing up.

So yeah you were bigoted about NTs. It's like saying all black people are mean nasty people who are in gangs and do shootings. Lumping people in a group is bigoted.

I can understand why you would think those things and have those feelings about NTs. It's because we put up with so much. It's not saying autistics are all perfect. More like saying we autistics, as a group, have to put up with a lot of BS from NTs that we don't get or want to be a part of. We have our own way of seeing things and doing things. We don't understand and empathize with certain values NTs (as a group) have, like the pecking order where every little difference is magnified ten times over and you are treated accordingly.
If you can find decent NTs more power to you but most the time it's the NTs that judge people for not doing it "this way", or talking "that way". It's not necessarily because the autistic is rude, just different. But, NTs can be very rude in return.
I don't think you are a bigot, just someone who has put up with a lot of crap and has met their BS quota for a zillion lifetimes, like many of us.
It can't really compare to stereotyping black people because most black people are nice to white people, where I live, anyway. Some might not be but it's not the same. It can't compare. I feel more empathy for black NTs than white anyway.

But bigotry can be caused by bad experiance. When a woman gets raped by a man, she hates all men and think they are rapists. Not all women think that way after their rape but some think that way.

The same thing happens with other races too like if you met every black person and not one of them has been nice to you, you could assume all of them are that way.

So the same thing is happening about NTs. We need to stop and think if we have ever met one autistic online or in real life who were jerks or have we ever bullied anyone or teased anyone, have we ever misjudged anyone, have we ever had any NTs who were nice to us and helped us?

People always notice the jerks more, no matter the religious,political sexual,racial etc. orientation.

Let's say you have one problem with a black person but you have known numerous ones who were nice all your life who never caused you any problems. Are you going to ignore the fact that all these blacks were nice before you encountered one that wasn't? Now, let's say you have known mostly NTs your whole life and a large majority were unaccepting of you, judgmental, and rude to you just because they hated you based on something you had no control over, of the way you were born, whether it be skin color, race, autism, whatever. You are going to get a bad impression of the people that you experienced the hate from. It might be somewhat bigoted, but not as bigoted as the person who hates all black people because of one negative encounter when they knew plenty of nice black people before.
It's not quite the same thing unless you are a white person who has experienced rotten treatment from most of the blacks you knew, or if you are a black person who experienced it from most of the whites. It's due to degrees and balance. How many good people v. how many bad. Bigotry has a continuum.
It is a good idea to wait until you see how the person treats you, first, before deciding.

But I have had some good NTs in my life, my speech therapist, my mom, my psychologist, my OT therapist, and then I have had aspies who have been mean to me and I even knew an aspie in real life who liked hurting his mother to get his way and he hurt the teachers and kids in his school. So how can I possibly hate NTs? I can't beleive I was this stupid to actually believe it was NT behavior when I have seen aspies being judgmental too and being mean to me and bullying me and the fact my e aspie mate was a bully in his school and to his mother. I was so unlogical about this until I was 22.

And they say we are logical thinkers?

Alright not all of us are logical. That's just another myth about us.

Are you saying there are aspies on here who have never actually knew a nice NT such as brother or sister or friend or therapist, neighbor, parent, etc.

There's plenty of Aspies who have had confusing encounters and negative experiences with people, all kinds of people, because of the nature of AS. It causes misunderstandings with others and chaotic elements in relationships because priorities are different.
Most of my experiences have been with NTs and I've had a lot of negative encounters with them, kind of like a minority who is discriminated against because of the way they look or act. A minority might not be "rude" they just seem that way because they aren't like the majority. Maybe they use different words or mannerisms (not insults) that others interpret as impolite or not as educated but are they really? Maybe they are just different, not in an insulting way, but in a way that varies from the norm. Maybe they don't approach others with the same words and mannerisms as everyone else. Maybe they want to talk about what they saw instead of asking "how are you?" and inquiring about every single mutual aquaintence or friend.
I'm sure there are plenty of negative, rude, Aspies, too, but, as a group, Aspies do not discriminate against other Aspies in the same way NTs do. Aspies don't have the same power as NTs. NTs are usually the authority figures, they side with each other, they get together in gangs and gang up on each other. All that stuff.
It is a lot like being a minority...

But I have been discriminated on here in the adult forum by other aspies. So of course aspies can discriminate against other aspies. Then another aspie told me it's not the topics I post, its the way I say them. That explained the discrimination.

Everybody will be discriminated against at some point. The question is: Who is doing the discrimination and what impact is it having? If an Aspie is a supervisor and in charge of hiring at an office and he refuses to hire someone because they are an "NT" and he wants to hire an "Aspie" his bigotry is worse than an Aspie criticising the way someone posts on an internet forum.
I was in the electronics department of a store a month or so ago and a guy who was there who I am pretty sure is autistic and he started talking to me about electronics. He told my mom he applied for a job there. He wasn't exactly like an NT, and when I go to the store I don't see him working there even though he was much nicer to me than most NTs I encounter and he knew about video gaming systems and games. Most likely, the NT in charge of hiring didn't hire him because he is autistic which is the type of discrimination that can cause a lot of harm.
You can't stop everyone from being rude or bigoted and you have to accept not everyone is going to accept you but when it's widespread bigotry that affects livelihood and causes Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder it's serious and that's what the NT form of bigotry can induce.

I really want to write to that psychiatrist one day and tell him what a favor he did me. I really was a bigot and I didn't realize it. Now, I feel like I can open up to more people, looking for some who don't fit the NT stereotype in my head!

BTW, I'm in the process of dying my hair from blond to red and then I'm going to a MJ Tribute Dance Party.. things I NEVER do. Either I'm getting manic, or I'm just so thrilled to be out of a bad relationship and out of a psych ward!

Given how often such opinions are aired upon these boards, it's refreshing to see someone correctly identify it as bigoted, especially from a self reflective example. To be fair though, you were having a really bad time of life so it's excusable given you've recognised the error.

Wow, yes, that sentence you wrote here sounded bad because it included all normal or non-autistic people when some can be like this while others are different actually. But then that really surprises me, because from many of your posts here on WP I only ever got the impression that you whitetiger are eloquent and thoughtful in your wording and opinion of others. I'm sure you will be successful in opening up to those normal people who, even if happen to be extremely typical, popular persons, are quite sweet and though they might not be particularly comprehending about autism seeing how they are neurobiologically different won't have anything against uniqueness. They exist and as I said, they might even seem to be extremely normal and thus popular, but getting to know them can sometimes be very surprising in that they turn out to be empathic and respectful.