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shulamith
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16 Sep 2009, 7:46 pm

I recently met this girl at my school, and she is mildly aspie, like me. She claims that she knows all the social stuff and told me in conversation that her doctor wants eventually to "undiagnose" her AS.
I was shocked and i told her right away to get a second opinion from a different doctor, but she says her mom agrees and it's clear she does too. I'm convinced that however this doctor plans to do it, saying she doesn't have AS anymore would be a very bad decision. She would no longer be eligible for the services most colleges offer, and it could make a bunch of other things really difficult as well.
I think the reason my new friend has come to this conclusion is that she is still in the resource room as her special service. The resource classrooms at our school aren't good because they don't group kids by condition, but by grade, meaning they have a whole bunch of different issues to cover for each student. For social skills, they focus on breaking the ice, inappropriate behavior, and taking turns. And i know the teacher this friend has- i had her last year. She is bad at dealing with AS. I think the basic nature of the curriculum and the teacher's inexpertise at identifying the ways my friend still needs to improve have convinced her that she no longer has As, or at least no longer needs services.
My question is this (sorry it took me so long): Can a person no longer have AS? And most importantly: if not, how can i convince my friend that she still does? How do i get her to keep getting services?



sgrannel
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16 Sep 2009, 7:51 pm

How old is she? Undiagnosing, and the loss of documentation and watchfulness might be a bad idea if she's young because it might be unknown what issues she'll have to deal with as she gets older, interaction becomes more complex, and more demands are placed upon her. Even if some mannerisms might be covered up by training out of them, people are always prone to regress at times.


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Callista
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16 Sep 2009, 9:29 pm

You can't cure AS, but you can compensate for it to the point that it is no longer a significant impairment and thus no longer diagnosable. Your cognitive style changes during this process no more than that of any other person your age.

I also agree that the doctor shouldn't jump onto immediately dropping the diagnosis as soon as the girl doesn't need any more outside help. She is not yet out of high school, and that means the full demands of an adult life haven't been placed on her yet; it should stay on her record until she is living on her own and still requires neither outside assistance nor adjustment in lifestyle nor additional effort.

A diagnosis on your record can't do you very much harm; a diagnosis taken off prematurely can easily create problems when you can't get the help you need.


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Tim_Tex
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16 Sep 2009, 10:29 pm

What Callista said.


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Willard
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16 Sep 2009, 10:34 pm

Are you certain she's a diagnosed Aspie, or do you only know this because she told you so?

Something here smells fishy.

And flat. :?



crownarmourer
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17 Sep 2009, 12:24 am

Phoenix is correct you will always be AS however if you are clever enough you can learn and adapt and compensate for your condition.
I have done all of the above and fit in quite well with society although not perfect and I have many difficulties such as melt downs.
I score very highly on the tests out there but they really are a joke as you can always figure out what they want to hear. As in any psychological test.
Not everyone can adapt though I'm just one of the lucky ones that had no choice but to learn to adapt and failure was never an option. As AS is a spectrum with wildly scattered abilities socially, Iq etc it just depends what life has dealt you. The key is not to think woe is me but look at the problem in front of you and solve it or learn to fake being social.
You will always be the person in the kitchen at a party but at least you get an invite which is better than nothing.



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17 Sep 2009, 12:31 am

Callista wrote:
She is not yet out of high school, and that means the full demands of an adult life haven't been placed on her yet; it should stay on her record until she is living on her own and still requires neither outside assistance nor adjustment in lifestyle nor additional effort.


This is an excellent point. For many Aspies, life gets harder after high school, not easier. School is generally more structured and predictable than adult life, and the expectations of other adults are higher, often much higher, plus the consequences of failure can be greater.

I hope this friend has a good support system in place if her AS is "undiagnosed". That seems to be very useful for Aspies, at any age or stage of life.



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17 Sep 2009, 2:12 am

Willard wrote:
Are you certain she's a diagnosed Aspie, or do you only know this because she told you so?

Something here smells fishy.

And flat. :?


Like a dead fish that was run over?



JKerl2
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17 Sep 2009, 2:43 am

sounds like she'd probably fare better without the label. keep in mind it's not just people w/ asperger's who have problems 'learning the social stuff,' it goes for anybody who's socially anxious or naive. this could be a step in the right direction, at least as far as self esteem.



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17 Sep 2009, 7:53 am

Cureable; No.

Treatable; Yes.

The treatment normally consists of two bits for me; Anti-anxiety meds to help me cope in social situations....and a LOT of self-teaching on how to deal with people



Katie_WPG
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17 Sep 2009, 7:54 am

Well, does she WANT services?

In College/University, the services for AS itself really dry up. If anything, her best bet would be a Career Centre (and those are accessible to anyone). They teach you interview skills, resume building, networking skills.

Disability services in University only helps if you have an additional learning, or physical disability on top of AS (you require someone to take your notes for you, you need extended time on tests, voc rehab can approve you for funded tutoring).

But they can't find friends for you, they can't make people like you, and they can't set you up with a job.

I can see why your friend wouldn't want the label anymore, especially if they're still focusing on "taking turns" in your high school social skills class. That's the kind of stuff most children learn in Kindergarten. Even the AS children should be learning that by early elementary.

If her parents instilled many social lessons in her, and didn't rely on the schools to teach her that, then it's possible that she's considerably ahead of her peers that didn't receive parental instruction.

While it's true that "undiagnosing" her would eliminate the services, there aren't any services for people with mild AS in the first place. Sure, there are independent living resources. But to be perfectly honest, what I've seen is primarily intended for mentally ret*d people. You can either have someone come to your apartment periodically, and do your work FOR you (an "assisted independent living" scenario). Or, there are the group homes where you have people watching you 24/7.

Neither of these situations are very good for self-esteem purposes, or for the development of independent living skills (ironically enough).

If your friend were to approach a counsellor and say "I would like to be set up with advanced social skills classes that teaches people how to network effectively, and how to influence people to reach my goals", they would probably look at her as if she had two heads. Unless you live in a metropolis, that MIGHT have services like that, it's just too much work to track those things down. Unless you're willing to give up school or work time. That, and you would have to pay through the nose for them.

It is generally assumed that all a person with AS needs is the basics, and the advanced stuff will come in time. That's not necessarily true. Some people learned the basics on their own, but still have trouble with advanced social skills.



cc469
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17 Sep 2009, 9:08 am

tl;dr except ops post.

this is just another example of why the subjective DSM diagnosis I very very ret*d.
I think we all know the rest ("fake as" , "socially ret*d with no advantages" etc)



ruveyn
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17 Sep 2009, 9:17 am

I hope not. I consider AS a gift, not a disorder.

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