The Brutal Truth about Teachers

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Ok, so this is my first non NT examination thread though by indirectness it might examine Nts, because NTs being the majority of the population, it would also make sense that more NTs will be teachers then Aspies.

Anyway that annoying disclaimer out of the way here is my opinion of teachers. Again, this might be biased based on my experiences but again they say it's a microcosm.

Anyway here we go.

Teachers, as far as I am concerned are interested in doing one thing. That is to lecture the students, they pay attention, do their homework and tests and shut up and sit down otherwise. They do not like disruptions and they want to have a totalitarian control over the classroom. Indeed, conformity is valued. Anyway who behaves differently or is disruptive has a disability and the goal is to put them on medication as a means of thought control.

They do not direct criticism and brutal honesty. Why? It is called opposition defiance disorder. That is why and it makes their job harder. After all, like any other professional, they want to do as least work as possible and get paid the most. Well, you can't have your pie and eat it too. You are paid because you provide a service so you are getting paid for your service. You are not paid there to talk, you are paid so the children learn. If the children don't learn, as resemblent on the SATs and standardized exams, you will be fired for incompetancy.

Teachers have absolutely basic emotional intelligence and those social workers who work with Aspie children and so on are no different from any other NT (on average).

Quite honestly, they are on average qualified to teach the material but are utterly unqualified to do anything else. (including social support).

OW! My heart! I just had a small heart attack from the shock of agreeing with Bozewani.

Maybe it's because I'm just coming off a huge showdown with my daughter's teachers so I'm in a bad mood but I agree!

I disagree with most of what you have written, Bozewani.

I am not a teacher (God forbid!), but I work with them, and with other educational support staff. The fifty or so teachers I know have fifty or so different attitudes, teaching styles, and motivations, but the majority of them are not there to lecture or tick boxes or even get paid a lot (though they do): they are there to teach, and they very much want their - our - students to do well, not because they want to get good SATs scores but because they care about the kids.

(The support staff are the same, except on half the money and as an added bonus can usually manage to work a light switch and perform other complicated tasks beyond the wit of "proper" teachers.)

This is not to say that every teacher is a saint, or good at their job, or that there are no flaws or breakdowns in the relationship between staff and pupils, but the situation (at least here - a state school in what is regularly called one of the most deprived areas in England) is the complete opposite of what you describe. If you have had bad experiences of education (and I did, in a school two miles away from the one I work at; I did not have happy schooldays, and I don't get on well with authority figures) I sympathise, but it's not right to condemn the education profession so broadly!

Lumping all teachers together and suggesting that they all act the same way smacks of bigotry. The contention that all professionals want to "do as least work as possible and get paid the most" is nothing more than puerile cynicism.

I was a behavior problem in school, and surely have an all-time record there for number of detentions. The fact is that most of my teachers were nice people, some of whom were more distraught than I was at the number of detentions they gave me. Of course there are teachers who are incompetent bullies. I had three of them. One quit teaching for good after teaching me math and science in grade 11. Another left the school after teaching me math and science in grade 8. haha.

Making all nt's or teachers out to be monsters really doesn't solve any of our difficulties. Sorry you had some bad experiences though.

Depends on the teacher. Some are as you described. But most of the ones I had genuinely care about kids. Though the ones who just do it for the paycheck ruin the image of the rest. Many teachers I had were great, but as an example my aunt is a teacher & has been for like twenty years, and I think part of the reason people don't like the way she teaches (she's very strict, but I've had other teachers who were firm/strict but not same) is because she doesn't like teaching (at least anymore). The good teachers like to teach and know their material. Difference for me between strict as you described and just being firm is teachers who are firm do not bend their rules/policies like overly strict ones, but the firm ones actually are willing to help their students! My main issue with teachers is not the individual teachers themselves, but their union (this is probably just a USA issue). Simply put, the budget policies for paying teachers, school officials & organizing the district budget at least in my hometown/district just plain suck.

Son's this year definitely seems to be like this so far... but last year's teacher was absolutely wonderful and very understanding for the most part. He saw her in the store yesterday and walked right up to her to give her a hug

Interesting. I think it depends on the grade. My 3rd grade teachers (they were a classroom with 2 teachers helping so to speak) and 1 was fresh out of College. Unfourtunanetly I thought it was ok to question the Psychology teacher ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY (as that's my major!) but know I find out after the suspension "The Psychology teacher didn't know how to answer your questions so she was avoiding you so she didn't have to answer your questions." This shocks me and upsets me to this very day. IMO it's one thing mom/family etc. having issue with my behavior even Elementary school teacher and the principals office daily but to the point of upseting A TEACHER I LIKE WHO'S A PSYCHOLOGIST! That's something I just can't handle (go figure) IMO sure I should get over it but is that advice going to work when I go on with life and end up upsetting someone to the point of being put in jail? NO!

Would a parallel to The Brutal Truth about Teachers
be
The Truth about Brutal Teachers?

Generally, yes, but there's something else to consider. It's not just the teacher. It's the other kids and their parents. When I was a kid, I was disruptive. I was an impulsive talker. That was my main form of disruption in the classroom, although, I had other ways of disrupting, they were just rarer. One thing I did on a constant basis was lean back in my chair, on two legs and rock some. The teacher would tell me to stop, five minutes later, I would do it again. I remember doing this quite a few times, maybe more. Another thing I did, was, occasionally, make random sounds. One time the teacher embarrassed me and I don't recall doing it again after that.
Besides stuff like this, I talked impulsively and it made it hard for me and others nearby to complete their work. At home, their parents would ask why they couldn't complete assignments in class or why they got in trouble and the kids would tell the parents I always tried to talk to them during class. So, the parents would get back with the teacher and pressure her. It's not just the teacher. It's the whole ecology of school, kinda like the circle of life --->teacher--->kids--->parents--->teacher--->kids--->parents...and sometimes the principal is involved. You are working in that dynamic. One part of the machine and if you aren't a cog that is conducting herself properly the machine is not as efficient.

In elementary school, there are, often, way too many kids per teacher and this makes it much harder on those of us with Autism, ADD, ADHD or some kind of learning disability or other condition that varies from the norm, even deviant personalities of various kinds. Teachers want all their students to be quiet, get along with each other, have good memories and long attention spans so they can do their work. That way, their SAT scores are higher, on a regular basis, and the teacher is considered a top rate performer and worth the salary they pay her. If she has a consistently poor performance during evaluations with the principal she can be released from her job in the district. Teachers are, often, expected to do what is nearly impossible: teach a group of 20 or more kids with everyone expecting their kid to make good grades, be popular, and get constant attention and individual help from the teacher. There needs to be smaller class sizes and teacher's aides.


It depends. They can be burnt out from having to teach so many kids at a time. They want each day to go smoothly without any grief from parents. They tend to resent anyone who causes difficulties during the day. They see it as ruining their day. Some are perfectionists and want everyday to go smoothly, with no talkers or fighting between students. They tend to resent the ones they think are troublemakers. I got a reputation as a troublemaker when I was in gradeschool. Sometimes, they can be really mean to students they pigeon hole as troublemakers, or ones they don't fully understand, or label "bad" for some reason. I've had teachers react to me in that way, turning me into the classroom dunce or object of ridicule. Although I didn't have an actual dunce cap, nor did I have to sit on a stool in the corner, I was designated as such on a symbolic level so that the teacher could make snide comments, so could the other students and get some laughs over it.
I developed such a tremendous fear of school and other people I can remember being nearly paralyzed by it at home. It also gave me night terrors. I had nightmares where I couldn't move. I think this revealed my tremendous sense of helplessness about he situation. I felt like there was nothing I could do to change it.

Hi Bozewani, No, it doesn't necessarily make sense that more NTs will be teachers than Aspies, in proportions to the populations. While many new university students express desires to teach, this feel-good desire is quickly sacrificed for the highest paying career fields, and the students that stick with it have a strong tendency to be very interested with a rather narrow course set that matches, or is most compatible with, a very specialized subject field. The students who make it through the university for the highest paying career fields, but fail with the career (which includes me, because of my disabilities and very poor informal timely social innate skills), can then take a few more classes and get their credentials to teach the career subjects that weren't conducive to their original desire of career. Then the students who don't make it with their major at the university, tend to change majors to ones with lower financial rewards. I would tend to believe that the first two groups would have a higher frequency of Aspies than the general poulation, while the third group would have the same proportions as the general population. I hope "beauty queen social skills" tests aren't now being used as a discriminatory filter with otherwise qualified teachers too.

I view your fourth paragraph as being very similar to some of the views expressed in the book "Toxic Psychiatry" by Peter Breggin, and the exploitation of over-medication of school students.

Some teachers are overly "boot camp," some are just lazy, some are looking for "true believers," some just want sycophants, some worship the "textbook" or this or that test, some have a helpful philosophy, some like "tough love" philosophy, some want to spread their life-philosophy or general subject philosophy, etc. With society again, standardized tests are back to being the most popular and worshipped by the public, and often legally required for graduation. The test is the measurement of the student rave is back, and the weighted bell-curve with the measured students as the measurement for measuring the teacher fad is still trying to take off. Some service work is inspiring and enjoyable, and being paid for doing it makes it survivable. Being judged for competency with a third-order standarized test misses the mark of instilling a rich education, and being judged for competency by being most popular in informal social skills is an insult. Meanwhile, the public wants all students to score above average, and the public
should listen to something besides progaganda praising the current craze, or at least try to think.

Emotional intelligence has many problems with non sequiturs, and it has been enlarged to social
intelligence non sequiturs also. This non-logic makes the Limbic System, the most primitive and
reptilian part of the human brain, the center of intelligence, and not just as limited as one of many doorways. Adding "social" to it, super-organisms garner claim to greatest intelligence, which doesn't make any sense. And remember, social support starts with an individual person, and the word "social" is more of a flowery adjective, without any additional relevance.

I'm sorry, but you've offered nothing factual or objective here - and having spent years as a teacher, I find your claims simply ridiculous. You offer a small sample of those involved as the definition of an entire career class; while I can appreciate your perspective, I must say I find it flawed and in error when it comes to the conclusions made.


M.

This whole thing is a very broad generalization, and in a broad sense, it does apply. Most teachers do tend to be as you described--the ones who are not are generally the exception. There are the ones who care, the ones who do anything for their students, the ones who listen and who find a way to help any student who wants help. The ones who aren't bothered/annoyed, but actually EXCITED if a student tells them something they didn't already know. There were a few such teachers at my high school; they were legendary.

While once I got to high school, I was lucky enough to have a few really great teachers, the rest do just want kids to sit down, shut up, and not question them. That's WHY the really great ones are such legends.

I think it's good that that idea bothers you so much, M. It means you'll never decide to adopt the attitude that children should just shut up because they don't have anything to offer. For a child or parent wading through the sea of crummy teachers, though, it can be hard to keep up hope that the good ones are out there. I look back at my years of elementary school, look at the issues anxiety is having getting the school to do anything appropriate with her son.. so many of the people here just can't find anybody within the school system who cares about anything more than their own convenience. No, it's not everybody, but it's not hard to understand why so many people get discouraged at ever finding decent teachers.

That, and anybody who doesn't care thinks that the ones who do are completely insane.

Sadly most teachers are like that, at least the ones I've encountered. Maybe in other places they're better, I don't know..

Another thing most of my teachers did was allow bullying. They SAID they had an anti-bullying policy, but in reality they just tutted a little bit and punished you for fighting back. Apparently, the correct response is to stay still and allow someone to punch your face in, not fight back.

So yeah...I agree.

Teachers are pressured into being that way. They aren't so much these draconian dictators as human beings who are trying desperately to stay employed and to do this, they need high test scores from their pupils and praise from the parents. It's not as simple as demonizing teachers and saying they are "bad" people who are intolerant of differences and disruptions because they are monsters with no respect for individualities and see us as mere drones. They are part of a system, a dynamic and when a kid enters school they become a part of it, too.
So, I don't blame teachers, entirely. Not grade school teachers, anyway.
Any teacher past grade school should have some accountability. Many kids grow out of their immature, elementary behaviour and may be only vaguely different from others, and get made fun of by a high school teacher trying to entertain a class. I think that crosses a line.
Someone past the age of, say, 14 who is being rude and disrespectful to the teacher isn't what I'm talking about. By a certain age, I was very quiet and never even spoke to my teachers and yet I was the target of their ridicule. Some don't mind being the class clown and taking on that role, but I was way too insecure to endure that kind of attention or reputation.