And with this, I may have just crucified myself on WP

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I have come to the conclusion from browsing the forums pretty much non stop for 7 hours that most people with AS are stuck up, conceited, think they are better, do not understand the world, think the world should revolve around them, label all NT's as the problem and in general are clueless to life. To expand:

I came back to wrong planet sometime yesterday and was sucked into the forums. Yes, I have no life. However I must say after reading dozens of threads and even more posts, I am very sad.

There are many on here who I think truly believe they are somehow better then people who are not ASD. This is a truly stuck up asinine view of the world. People here claim they want change and open views etc, yet they seem unwilling to accept other's views that do not relate to their own. Maybe you should stop to consider that NT's may be right about more things then you would like. Maybe the world works a certain way because it keeps the world working. Maybe Aspergers is not so wonderful and is not "the next step"

I am not saying Aspergers is bad, a disease, something to be cured, or anything like that. But I don't think it is the next step in evolution, nor something that makes those who have is better in any way over all.

Yes, those of us with AS/ASD tend to be intelligent. However in reality for most of us that intelligence is focused down a very narrow pipe. We may be smart in one area, but we also tend to be lacking in others.

A big thing we lack is social skills. You can say what you want, how you can "think like an NT", how you have figured it all out, etc, but really we are at a disadvantage. I note many of the posts claiming "I can think like an NT fine" are also paired with the text "but I am unable to do so". Um.... think about that. You are so smart and can think like a NT and fit in but really.... you can't. Does that mean we are all socially stupid or incapable of passing in a conversation? Not at all. But we don't think like NT's and they don't think like us regardless of what the other may want.

Second problem I see on here: all the whining. Seriously, all the "Have you been bullied" type deals. I think it's safe to say pretty much everyone with ASD has been picked on to varying severity. I think it is good to be able to talk and vent and self council one another. But at the same time enough. Really people make it sound like only AS/ASD people are defenseless targets. I was picked on severally over the years. Mentally, physically, emotionally. I was miserable in school, I hated it, I never wanted to go back after each day. But I am here now. Those who have made shots at my posts with things like "not everyone had such good support or access to a good team" are only right in that statement itself. I did/do have a caring family. However they make it sound like without that one with AS/ASD is INCAPABLE of sticking up for themselves/learning to ignore. I have zero sympathy for people who choose to remain victims if there is even the slightest thing they can do about it. If you are bullied from the time you start school until the time you retire (as was claimed by one member), then it's your fault at that point. When I point this out people bring up how those with AS/ASD have many deep social troubles and are not to blame. Hmm, I thought earlier I was told people with AS could understand NT's? Which is it?

Next point:

The world should not and will not bend to fit your needs because you think it should. Reality check. Sure. we see things differently. And sure, there is a group of us. But you know why the world revolves around the majority? It's because the majority has say. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" or something like that. You know what? You may not understand the world and think its unfair. You know what else? The world does not give a damn. If your in this world as a minority your at a disadvantage inherently. If you don't like it, do something. Ranting on a forum is all nice and good but if you really care at all you might consider doing something else about it. A protest or rally, a fund raiser, a news article. If your just ranting on WP, your preaching to the choir.

And last in note to an earlier thread:

NT's are not the problem by themselves. Saying "It's the NT's that are to blame" is dumb. Why? Several reasons. One, people say NT's were the bullies. OK fine, WHO ELSE IS THERE? There is the NT's (vast majority of population) and the Aspies (small minority subset of autism). I don't see a third group mentioned, nor has anyone pointed at such. So yes, NT's are the jerks. Great, you have just stated the obvious. Also people tend to group all NT's by past experience of a few. So 10 people bullied you. So 100 f*****s bullied you. There are over 6 BILLION people on Earth. Most of them are NT. 100 < 6 Billion. 100,000,000 < 6 Billion. By far. Get things is perspective people. Also not all Aspies are so innocent. Some in fact not only bully NT's, but bully each other.

A post was made on one of my threads saying how Aspies struggle because many don't get the support/have nice toys/good families/etc. Do you people really think that is ASD specific? Only people with AS have problems like that? Are you people that out of it? I really had hoped people with AS/ASD in general were more together. I am not perfect but it almost is like I don't even have AS when I am on here.

Yes we are smart, but only in specific areas.
Yes we are special, as is everyone if you want to claim that.
Yes we have social problems, it does not make us incapable of interaction.
Yes most of us have been bullied severely, it does not make us blameless.

Also on a closing note, I was asked "Since NT's bash on us, why shouldn't we bash on them?"

If I really have to explain that then the AS community is more childish and immature then I thought. That is a childs way of thinking. I don't think most of us like to be called children. Don't act like we are.

If this post offends anyone well... I am not really sorry. The AS community needs a wake up call that we are not as crippled as we or others make ourselves out to be. Yes, we even cripple ourselves. Sad. If you want change so bad, do something besides bitching about it. Bitching is fine, but only matter's if action follows (assuming the person really cares)

I suspect I may be banned for this post since it is a very different view then probably what is wanted. If I am not banned I may stick around, contribute, try to be helpful, etcetera.

Goodnight.

Your idealistic expectations of this forum are probably an AS trait.

We all have something to work on.

Last edited by monsterland on 04 Jan 2010, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

On some point you are right but you are forgetting that some here actually are cripple by their autism, some actually are unable to speak, some get very easy sensory overload.

You see what may look like whining to you but in some case it just people that from lack of social contact have an awkward or childish way to express themselves, who are asking for a bit of support. True some may go a bit far but I think in some part of your message you come to be doing what your blaming.


You also cannot fully blame some for a certain level of narcissism, especially in this case for some member are highly isolated on other end of computer, and writing or just releasing steam here is just something that they need to release steam or not to simply fall into full scale narcissism or suicide from the isolation.


So just try not to mind too much, we are has diverse has any other human group, it just that some who come here are genuinely awkward for any form of communication but they just feel less pressure on the net and less repression from those that share common difficulty.

Nope that just has to do with experience in the world, a good depression can change any fervent idealist into what seem like a complete other person.

It would surprise me if you were banned. After all you weren't offensive. I don't disagree with your points but I wonder if the problem comes from people over compensating for their feelings of alienation from the NT world. I have a friend who grew up with massive feelings of unworthiness because of her mother's emotional abuse. She fought hard to gain a sense of well being. That's great but she now works so hard at it she comes off as a self obsessed braggart. It's irritating but I know where it comes from. I too am bothered by glib comments about AS superiority. Each group has it's strengths and weaknesses and I think the goal would be better communication and acceptance between the two. I'm going to venture the hypothesis that the ones that post anti-NT material are fairly young. I know age and experience has led me to a more tolerant view of the failings of all of us, NTs included.

There's some truth in what you say, though I'm not sure how many people here are so anti-NT. Maybe a poll would tell us that.

My own view is that objectively nobody is inferior or superior, you either like a person or you don't. I was only diagnosed recently and I don't feel able to diagnose others as NT or not, so I can't really say that NTs have given me a bad time......I'd say that the people who have done me the most harm have mostly been fairly unusual people - one was an alcoholic, others had obvious psychological problems of their own, and no doubt with a little more foresight I could have kept myself safe from their behaviour.

I still tend to look down on mainstream society, though I try to judge individuals on their own merits rather than just reading their label. And when I say I judge them, I only judge how they're affecting me, I don't judge them as people......just that I have to have some rationale for deciding who I allow into my life and who I don't. I probably err on the side of (my own) safety and avoid a lot of people who wouldn't harm me, but I doubt that they lose out on much through losing their access to me, as there are plenty of other fish in the sea if they're feeling lonely.

I like the OP. I hope he sticks around.

We don't all hate NT's. My closest friend is NT.
I don't even call myself AS anymore nor do I call people NT. I mean I still know I have AS, but I don't identify with it. I think the whole "AS is superior to NT" is just rubbish and really if anything an ego boost to those people that believe it.

I have noticed how some people are here. I just ignore it or not let it get me. It's the internet. Take a break and come back later.

Well it's not my intention to crucify anyone and I guess I open myself up for a series of return shots (be gentle), but nevertheless-

I would just say that the people on WP are just one subset of the AS community. And that like any community, those who talk frequently and the loudest are usually those have the strongest opinions. The rest tend to be a silent majority. I understand that when you say most/many AS people are stuck up, solopsistic etc you are merely expressing a personal opinion, but you shouldn't judge it on a vocal minority. In fact, it's probably best not to judge people at all, regardless of whether you are AS or NT or if you think those people are judging others or being victims or whatever else.

When people are talking about their personal experiences, they're writing about what they know themselves. It's a subjective story. They're not saying no one else in the world feels like this, they're just saying this is how I feel and this is what I went through. NT's go through negative experiences and can have similar traits just as frequently. There are also people on here that have gone through traumas and may have psychological issues that they haven't fully expressed to you. All they've written is a bunch of posts on a page. That's never going to equate to their full story. I believe that people should empower themselves as well, but I can't say that I know enough about anybody on here to be able to give a full analysis as to how they can go about doing that. And if one AS person contradicts another, that's fair enough, because they're different people, same as any community. And when they talk to each other, they're just hoping for support from another who has gone through a similar experience, not because they want to start a revolution or something. You're only seeing the 'bitching' because that's the precursor. It's like the news. You only really see the bad stuff because that's what most people talk about, the good stuff is left by the way side and forgotten. All the real action is done in the real world.

I'm not offended by your post at all but I would just say that if you're wanting something else out of people, then I wouldn't trying forcing them, I'd just go find the people that fit what you want. I don't think you should be banned, but if you feel that angry about it and you don't think things will change, then you probably shouldn't keep feeding it. If you want to honestly help others constructively, then you should do it with a calm and understanding viewpoint.

Any how, just my thoughts.

First you say you don't like the NT bashing and then you turn around and do aspie bashing?

I don't do these things other aspies here do. Not all of us are this way. I like you so far and have liked the things you say.






I think that was a retort.

A revolution would be interesting to see through, but I am quite unsure about how many of us could support the chaos that will follow it. =p


Other then that farce of mine, your message is about the same thing I wanted to say in my reply earlier.

After searching the definition of retort I must say true, but still an illogical retort since idealism is not a defining symptom for any autistic spectrum.

The OP is a just a little holier the thou, he labels pretty much everyone as NT haters which is wrong, he doesn't see or understand the average aspie may be a little frustrated with their treatment in the normal world, to him its sort of a forgone conclusion we think we are better then NT's which is completely unfounded, To him we are nothing but stuck up and conceited, narrow minded children, what ever, the guy has been on a tangent for a day full of ideas but having no real direction,

After reading other replies here, I see why that was a good comeback. He was being black and white and thinking from his own experiance so he expects the same from everyone else here and to be like him. It's about TOM and putting yourselves in other peoples shoes and understanding their point of view which doctors say is an aspie trait they lack. The OP lacked it.

The unaimed bow never misses, but only due to it never meant to hit anything to begin with. There are many factors to this sporadic verbosity about such topics, he could be a holier than thou art person, he could be sad and is trying to use shock or guilt to people to talk to him, or he could be a troll. Just as I see it he could raise a good point if he didn't constantly blame us over and over or act conceited himself.

none of the points the OP made are any good
at least not to me
because people here are not just complaining or bragging but try to look harder at why they failing at "social skills"
u know social skills are very relative and time Dependant and the fact that a majority adhere to some unsatisfactory solutions to the complex and contradictory needs of life and existence shouldn't stand in the way of any minority who feels and think he have a legitimate say in such fundamental issues
The OP asserting that this is things as they are and if the majority is comfortable with it than it must be god will is the most destructive attitude and if taken by too many people we would still living on the trees
social skills have to undergo a constant evaluation
it's one of the most basic survival instinct of the human race
AS has the right and obligation to fight for their right as do any other minorities
if u change 'AS' with 'Blacks' in your post you'll see how ugly and unjustified u may sound to a more sensitive ears

Last edited by nara44 on 04 Jan 2010, 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

True but nothing wrong with been holier then thou has long has it stay to word and non-violent reform, and don't start some kind of inquisition and random witch burning.

And somewhat feel like you blame him to be judgmental by been judgmental in return, not that it is not a illogical return of thing, but I find it to be somewhat basic logic with some taint of emotion. A thing I came to point out in my own reply to his message just in other wording. But shrug could be wrong for just a feeling so this reply of mine is tainted by emotion also.